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"Yes. I’m talking to you EC." -- Well, I am an Estranged Child and I'm willing to listen...

(159 Posts)
HolyHannah Fri 31-Jan-20 07:03:12

Here's the message:

I went over and visited a few other sites that are dedicated to the children of estrangement. I noticed a whole lot of finger pointing and accusations of Narcissism especially among mothers. Some brought up this website as if a narcissistic parent would spend time looking to resolve their grief online. No kiddos. Let me tell you what a narcissistic parent looks like. A mother that neglects her children to go out to bars, feeds her kids the same meals day in and day out to buy cigarettes and beer for her man. A mother that tells you that you should have died instead of your sister. That’s just the very teeny tip of the iceberg of my relationship with my mother. I could post things here that would make most people’s heads explode. The point is that as screwed up as my mother was all my life, as immature as she still is, I stand by her and help her when she is sick today. I don’t turn my back on her because I came to realize as I got older that we all tend to reflect our own upbringing. My mother was raised by an undiagnosed paranoid bipolar parent. She was physically abused herself and emotionally terrorized. Perhaps that kept her in a perpetual state of adolescence. I don’t know for sure but what I do know is that there was nothing I did as a child to deserve maltreatment. I could walk away from my mother but I do the right thing by letting both of my parents off the hook. I don’t wish for them to die knowing that they were hated by me. Now if I can forgive my parents who I promise you were absolute monsters to me growing up, maybe you can stop feeling sorry for yourselves and do the same. When they are gone you will never have the chance to clear that up. Now I don’t recommend reconciliation in the case of sexual abuse but if you are keeping yourself away for things such as your mom was too nosy or she embarrassed you a few times, get over it. It happens to all children and guess what, if you have kids you’re bound to screw up without even intending to. Lord knows I had that first time my daughter told me I was stupid and that she hated me for being mean. It will happen to you! Furthermore, you say that you have gone no contact but what have you done in return that is actually quite dangerous. You’re putting the strangers online own personal biases as support for your complaints about parents. You’re relegating yourselves to impersonal support chats instead of trying to mend the relationships with the people that kept you alive and kept your tushies clean for the first few years of your existence. Children, adult children and parents will always have friction. Lower your expectations and see your parents as the people they are and not just as solely your parents. It is disappointing when you first realize your parents are not the idealized versions we see on television but you owe it to yourself to at least try to have compassion and understanding for them just as you would any other person on the internet.

Smileless2012 Sat 01-Feb-20 11:13:26

There have been posters here on GN who have talked about re connecting with parent(s) later in life, being there for the parent(s) they'd estranged in the last years of their lives; in some cases helping to take care of them.

For any EAC thinking of doing so, it may be helpful to read about some one else's experience.

Smileless2012 Sat 01-Feb-20 11:14:45

Why don't you think the writer is an EC Yennifer?

Yennifer Sat 01-Feb-20 11:20:11

This isn't the post that would tempt me to reconsiliation, it's rude, invalidating, lacking in empathy and no where near any post I have ever read from an EC who has re-established contact. I've never seen an EC state that sexual abuse is the only valid reason for estrangement. I've seen through HolyHannah links and places I looked at since meeting her here, lots and lots of EPs say exactly that, so that belief is based on the thousands of other ECs I have spoken to in support groups x

Yennifer Sat 01-Feb-20 11:23:38

I believe OP to be an abuser, very strongly whether they are genuinely an EC or not. I know you don't see what I see Smileless2012 but maybe that's because we are looking at it differently. I would absolutely love an end to estrangement but for that to happen, both parent and child have to come together to do the hard work x

Smileless2012 Sat 01-Feb-20 11:44:14

Any form of abuse validates estrangement, a point of view wildly acknowledged here by EP's. I have not seen on any of the sites I've visited over the years, any EP say that only sexual abuse is a valid reason.

As you say, we look at things from different perspectives that said, I see nothing in the OP to suggest that the writer is an abuser. The OP is of course open to interpretation but I don't agree that by saying "keeping yourself away for things such as your mom was too nosy or embarrassed you a few times" is saying that sexual abuse is the only valid reason for estrangement.

Accusations of being nosy and an embarrassment, are reasons that have been given to some EP's for their estrangement despite the fact that as the OP states this "happens to all children".

Yennifer Sat 01-Feb-20 11:52:56

I took the whole post in context, not just little bits I liked or didn't x

Yennifer Sat 01-Feb-20 11:54:22

This post isn't from here Smileless2012, not a very large selection of people here either!

Yennifer Sat 01-Feb-20 11:55:31

That's why I'm chatting here and not the places people like OP hang out x

Chewbacca Sat 01-Feb-20 11:57:08

I believe OP to be an abuser,

Unless you have evidence of that Yennifer, I really think you should ask GNHQ to withdraw that post.

Yennifer Sat 01-Feb-20 11:58:39

No I don't have to, I'm not talking about a person on grans net so it's OK x

Yennifer Sat 01-Feb-20 12:00:34

I'm not lying about what I have seen EPs say either x

Yennifer Sat 01-Feb-20 12:02:15

If you report it I will just clarify to grans net and it will just get reinstated x

Smileless2012 Sat 01-Feb-20 12:15:42

I took the whole post in context too and I don't see the relevance of the post not being from GN, it's been posted here for GN's to comment on.

I'm sure you're right that as it's not a GN member who wrote the OP GNHQ wont have a problem with you saying s/he is an abuser but regardless, it's a very unpleasant assumption to make without evidence.

Yennifer Sat 01-Feb-20 12:24:13

The evidence is there, I see it very clearly. My mother has said the same to me and I do empathise her parents were abusive but she didn't break the cycle for her children and she damaged all 4 of us in different ways. I felt abused by those words and I would only expect an abusive person to say them to me. That's my evidence x

Smileless2012 Sat 01-Feb-20 12:54:38

That's your point of view which like all of us, you're entitled too but it isn't evidence.

Yennifer Sat 01-Feb-20 13:00:30

My feelings are not a point of view, my feelings are real, my feelings are not a choice and my feelings are valid x

Chewbacca Sat 01-Feb-20 13:34:49

My feelings are not a point of view, my feelings are real, my feelings are not a choice and my feelings are valid x

But everyone feels like that! grin it's not unique to you. But those feelings are exactly that; feelings that you have that are based on experiences. They maybe real to you, but they are not facts.

Sticking a cutesy "x" at the end of a post doesn't detract from the fact that a post is meant to have a sting in it. hmm

3nanny6 Sat 01-Feb-20 13:55:14

I was a little confused and thought the post was from the person named, even though I read through it several times, and I commented on the post as I had interpreted it.

One thing that I do get after reading all the replies and there has been many good replies is the fact there are many of us with EAC and also there are the AC on here also who are estranged from parents what I see is all of us are experiencing our pain and are doing our best to live our lives come to terms with that pain and still feel like useful
human beings estrangement is a huge rejection of who we are I hope we can all find the tools and whatever else we need so we can live in peace and hope for our own futures.

Starlady Sat 01-Feb-20 14:28:25

Thanks for explaining, HH!

I think it is very kind, actually magnanimous, for the OP to realize her mum is a product of her own bad upbringing and to forgive and care for her. But they lost me when they started complaining about AC who have estranged their parents for being nosy or embarrassing them. Have I seen that? Yes. But usually when it's an ongoing problem, when mum or dad won't stop even though the AC have let them know how they feel. Then it becomes disrespect for the AC's feelings. AC may see that as abusive or just not be able to take a steady diet of it. IMO, in those cases, it's better to go LC than NC. But even those AC who go NC b/c of it really are hurting, IMO, and have just had enough. Also, sometimes, those are the COs that are temporary b/c the AC just needs some space to clear their heads, etc.

Yennifer Sat 01-Feb-20 14:34:10

Chewbacca, my experiences are facts, just because our experiences are different, doesn't mean mine aren't real. I'm happy to leave off the x, it is a habit, there is no need for badgering me. We are all in this together here. I would always put the words and feelings of a fellow grans net member above the words of a random stranger on the Internet and I was talking affectionately among peers

3nanny6, hope things get easier for you, I understand the rejection, even if mine happened before estrangement instead of after x

Yennifer Sat 01-Feb-20 14:35:49

Starlady you are always so lovely and such a balanced sensible view x

Starlady Sat 01-Feb-20 14:44:41

Yennifer, I think I get some of what you're saying. It's possible that the initial OP, the one on the other site, was really an EP who was trying to influence young parents/AC. And that they decided they could do it best by posing as an AC, that other AC would be more likely to accept their message that way.

But, IMO, it's also possible that the OP was a formerly abused child who resents it when other AC go NC "just b/c" their parents are nosy or embarrassing sometimes. I can see where they might think that their situation was so much worse. And I can see where they might think that if they could forgive their abusive parents, other AC should be able to forgive a mum (or dad) who was "merely" intrusive, etc.

They also mention that "first time" their DD told them they were "mean," etc. If it was just b/c they insisted on DD's doing HW (homework) or something before going on electronics, then I agree that reaction is just a typical kid response. But that hardly compares to a parent who constantly embarrasses their child or who can't step back a little from their AC's life. Maybe these things aren't on the same level w/ the OP's abusive experience, but they are not on a level w/ a kid getting mad about having to do HW or whatever either.

Besides, I don't think the OP has the right to judge anyone else' feelings. Or to dismiss those feelings. In fact, that's exactly the kind of thing I've seen many EAC complain about (here, on MN, etc.). And as I said earlier, I don't think it's very productive to tell anyone to "get over it."

Starlady Sat 01-Feb-20 14:45:04

Thanks for the compliment, Yennifer!

Yennifer Sat 01-Feb-20 14:58:30

Yes Starlady! I would never say that to an EC the same way I would never ever advise an EC to go No Contact either! It's a deeply personal decision that has to be made by the person making it. I feel it would be abusive of me to do either because my experiences aren't theirs and I would be controlling and influencing them. My husband would never have told me what to do, just supported me and my decisions knowing I would do what is best for us and our kids. All I can do is listen and say the way I see it or support other people's decisions. Not all EC or abused children are nice people, I'm not daft enough to ever think that but I can tell whether or not I like and trust someone and I neither like or trust the original speaker of these words whichever they may be x

rosecarmel Sat 01-Feb-20 15:17:56

My mother died recently- I was with her when she did, holding her hand, touching her gently, whispering loving words to her as she gracefully slipped away-

We were estranged-

Point being, the OP could be too- We are all present to varying degrees in each others lives- Cut off completely is a figure of speech-