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I went over and visited a few other sites that are dedicated to the children of estrangement. I noticed a whole lot of finger pointing and accusations of Narcissism especially among mothers. Some brought up this website as if a narcissistic parent would spend time looking to resolve their grief online. No kiddos. Let me tell you what a narcissistic parent looks like. A mother that neglects her children to go out to bars, feeds her kids the same meals day in and day out to buy cigarettes and beer for her man. A mother that tells you that you should have died instead of your sister. That’s just the very teeny tip of the iceberg of my relationship with my mother. I could post things here that would make most people’s heads explode. The point is that as screwed up as my mother was all my life, as immature as she still is, I stand by her and help her when she is sick today. I don’t turn my back on her because I came to realize as I got older that we all tend to reflect our own upbringing. My mother was raised by an undiagnosed paranoid bipolar parent. She was physically abused herself and emotionally terrorized. Perhaps that kept her in a perpetual state of adolescence. I don’t know for sure but what I do know is that there was nothing I did as a child to deserve maltreatment. I could walk away from my mother but I do the right thing by letting both of my parents off the hook. I don’t wish for them to die knowing that they were hated by me. Now if I can forgive my parents who I promise you were absolute monsters to me growing up, maybe you can stop feeling sorry for yourselves and do the same. When they are gone you will never have the chance to clear that up. Now I don’t recommend reconciliation in the case of sexual abuse but if you are keeping yourself away for things such as your mom was too nosy or she embarrassed you a few times, get over it. It happens to all children and guess what, if you have kids you’re bound to screw up without even intending to. Lord knows I had that first time my daughter told me I was stupid and that she hated me for being mean. It will happen to you! Furthermore, you say that you have gone no contact but what have you done in return that is actually quite dangerous. You’re putting the strangers online own personal biases as support for your complaints about parents. You’re relegating yourselves to impersonal support chats instead of trying to mend the relationships with the people that kept you alive and kept your tushies clean for the first few years of your existence. Children, adult children and parents will always have friction. Lower your expectations and see your parents as the people they are and not just as solely your parents. It is disappointing when you first realize your parents are not the idealized versions we see on television but you owe it to yourself to at least try to have compassion and understanding for them just as you would any other person on the internet.
I'm sorry rosecarmel but I don't understand your last post: cut off completely is a figure of speech. Surely if someone has been cut off completely, that's it. It's a fact isn't it? I don't understand why you say it's a "figure of speech"?
The person who wrote the post I quoted was an EP who felt/feels that EAC need to hear that message. It is more of the usual attitude that AC often encounter (estranged or not) and since it opened with "Yes. I’m talking to you EC..." I thought it would be interesting to discuss.
As for the "sexual abuse is the only reason to estrange" line. EAC get that and the, "Only TRUE abuse is a valid reason to estrange." and anyone who says it doesn't get said to us all the time, is just gas-lighting.
Along with "you will regret it one day" "your mother did her best" "she will be dead soon" etc. All gaslighting is abuse, all telling people how they should think, feel or behave is gaslighting x
Oh and the worst one from 3 people I know directly "you are teaching your children it is OK to walk away from you". If my children estrange me it's because I didn't succeed in breaking the cycle and I have abused them. No gaslighting myself that the simple step of distancing myself from abusive people would be enough for my kids to estrange me. That's pure nonsense x
Yennifer -- I think it's along the lines of abusers really believe that everyone thinks/behaves as they do. I think it re-enforces their narrative of, "I'm not abusive." and knowing how they think themselves (with the belief that everyone else is just 'like them') they go on the offensive to make sure they remain the top dog.
It shows an entire pattern of illogical thought processes, which is why there is no reasoning/discussion with abusers. Any changes and concessions requested are immediately called a "power play" being used to try to "control" them. Only abusers want control. The idea that healthy people want peace and not control isn't in their mind-set of emotional skills.
P.S. I like the 'x' at the end. It's your little signature.
HolyHannah you have taught me a lot and I do really appreciate it x
Chewbacca, physical presence is objective, thoughts, feelings and emotions are subjective- Can't cut them out of our lives, they always arise and keep people connected-
Then again .. The way anyone describes estrangement isn't necessarily "cut and dry" .. Even the best intentions on the surface can reveal hidden agendas underneath ..
I don't think "cut off completely" is necessarily a figure of speech. 3 of my friends are CO, and while 2 of them still try to contact their EAC, they receive no contact in return.
Granted, estranged family members often run into each other on the street (if they live near each other) or at larger family events. So in that sense, I can see where CO or NC may be figurative. However, these encounters are often very awkward and painful, to my knowledge, and don't always involve any communication.
Also, I know people sometimes have a change of heart and resume contact, especially when an estranged family member is ill/dying, as you did rose. But IDK if they always realize they will do that when they first go NC. And I've read posts on MN where they said they would "never" reconcile, even if their mum/MIL/etc. were at death's door. Sad but sometimes true.
All that being said, these are some of the reasons, I would go LC rather than NC if I my relationship w/ a parent or other family member went sour (except in extreme cases, of course). But that's just me.
Starlady, we (you and me) have a history of respectfully not seeing eye to eye on the varying degrees of estrangement- 
My mother and I were estranged when she died- She was aware of that heart-breaking fact as much as I was- Being connected to each other physically didn't cancel out the areas of our relationship where we "weren't there"-
Nonetheless, love was "there"- And love connects ..
I don't agree that an EP who says "Only TRUE abuse is a valid reason to estrange HolyHannah is necessarily gas lighting.
It's a reasonable response IMO from an EP who was not abusive and has not been told why they've been estranged. I can understand why it's upsetting for an EAC to have that response, in the same way that it's upsetting for EP's to constantly be on the receiving end of the 'you must have done something' remark, together with the assumption that EAC never estrange P's without good reason.
We are all aware that there are AC who estrange decent, caring and loving parents and that there are EP's whose behaviour has led to their estrangement.
"Nonetheless, love was "there" - And love connects" I hope that your being with your mother when she died bought some peace to you both rosecarmel.
There's no such thing as a perfectly good set of caring and loving parents- Parents can aspire to be, but aspiration and effort don't prevent eventual mistakes- However, making efforts to prevent making the same mistake as a parent could be seen as good parenting or alienating -
Do EAC sound repetitive? As if they parrot each other like a flock of mocking birds? Yes! But does that detract from their efforts to prevent making the same mistake again? No!
Is something getting lost in their collective song? Yes- They don't often present themselves as flawed, other than the damage done to them by their parents - And that in itself can lead to further damage, deeper rifts, misunderstanding and suspicion-
On the same side of the coin, estranged parents do the same: they don't often present themselves as flawed-
Smileless, I was grateful to be there in whatever capacity .. I think it brought her some peace, which in turn brought me some peace ..
Maybe what I see is people choosing sides while outing each other for the same thing ..
Who taught them to do that?
Never met a perfect person. Definitely didn't want a perfect mother. Far from a perfect mother myself! I just wanted a mother who loved me but frankly, I wasn't perfect enough for her, not pretty enough, not clever enough, just not enough. Never matched up to the older sister I was meant to replace. I could have put up with so much if she had just loved me. I would have put up with so much less if I hadn't loved her. Yet people who don't know me will judge me, make a sport out of catching me out somehow, like proving me bad will prove their EC bad or soothe their guilt with their kids. It happens to me all the time, family, lost friends, random Internet strangers. Yet I don't need to prove EPs bad to know my mother was a monster and I made the right decision. I don't nerd to prove me innocent because I'm not. I'm not innocent, but I'm not abusive either x
@Rosecarmel
Is something getting lost in their collective song? Yes- They don't often present themselves as flawed, other than the damage done to them by their parents - And that in itself can lead to further damage, deeper rifts, misunderstanding and suspicion-
On the same side of the coin, estranged parents do the same: they don't often present themselves as flawed.
(I hate to agree with you Rosecarmel! 
)
I have never read anything more important on this site!
Nobody escapes inter-generational family dysfunction, sadly it affect us all to one degree or another -
becoming aware of your own dysfunction improves all relationships like magic.
Yes, it's a collective shipwreck .. ;)
But .. Individually, we've all our specific issues to assume responsibility for ..
Yes. YES! ?
that’s a steaming pile of horse poo ? as far as advice goes. ‘Accept abuse and generational trauma! Perpetuate more misery, because our parents were miserable first!’ All my love and respect to the AC that cut ties and walk away with toxic parents, because they do deserve better than they got and they don’t owe their parents anything.
You need a trophy, too .. To fill up with your own poo! Hahahaha!
On the same side of the coin, estranged parents do the same: they don't often present themselves as flawed.
That is true, people often find it well nigh impossible to admit mistakes/see flaws in themselves. What I find interesting sometimes on GN threads is that even when a poster does admit flaws or mistakes, those admissions get ignored by other posters intent on a particular agenda presumably from their own experiences! So chunks of a post by an OP who is asking for help and admitting they have made mistakes gets completely lost whilst the OP gets "harangued" somewhat pointlessly and unhelpful. It's a pity as it helps noone least of all the OP. I' dont believe it does the "haranguers" much good either!
I agree with Smileless2012 post on 1st Feb 18.40 and it is certainly true to want to know from my estranged AC who has given no full explanation as to why I cannot have contact with the grand-children that know me.
To rosecarmel it is good you felt the need to be with your dying mother and as well as reaching out to her at that time you probably were also getting closure on whatever separation had gone on in your life.
I am not looking to judge your actions however it all seems so sad if there had been estrangement for many years why at the last final hours would you necessarily feel that need coming from within. That is a question I mull over in my own mind because I do believe that estrangement means just that and like someone has posted not just a figure of speech. I do not see my daughter and yet contemplate her happiness and hope she is reasonably well and healthy also I think maybe she could be in hospital and would she call me the same even if the grand-children were unwell all these things are missing when you have estrangement so much of the AC life that one would like to be involved in but is not. So much of a wasted life if only to see that loved one on their death bed.
I sat with my own late mother at the end of her life and had not been estranged from her it had been over a two week period and the family knew that the end was coming. It was quite surreal but one thing that has stayed with me is the fact the hospital kept calling me and saying your mother is calling for you and of course I would go the thing was my eldest brother had always been a favourite to my mother I knew I was loved but he had been a favourite whereas I was the apple of my fathers eye. Anyway on a couple of occasions I got there without my brother and she would just hold my hand as she had become weak. On her last day I was called to the hospital and sat with one of my daughters as she slipped away in fact my brother had gone on along trip to go to a job interview when I told him mum was dying but he still went. He arrived at the hospital 20 minutes after she had gone I wonder how it had worked out that way and it was me that sat at the bedside as she went and not my brother. Anyway I suppose I have gone off the subject a little
only saying estrangement is an emotive subject.
"estranged parents do the same; they don't often present themselves as flawed", that's true but they don't present themselves as perfect either.
An EP saying they have done their best isn't saying they were perfect. Of course all parents make mistakes, all people do. Mr. S. and I are imperfect people who become imperfect parents and did our best to raise our imperfect children.
"that's a steaming pile of horse poo" why *OutsideDave"? What is wrong with any EAC wanting to re connect with their parent(s) later in life. It's their decision to make so who has the right to pour scorn on that decision if they choose to make it?
"All my love and respect to the AC that cuts ties and walk away with toxic parents" I'm assuming you meant to put away from toxic parents. Are you saying that your love and respect for EAC who having walked away from their "toxic parents" ends if they decide to resume contact in their parent(s) last years?
I think people sense the arrogance of others sometimes, the total absoluteness of their wording that they are the only ones who are right and lacking ability to hear any other point of view. No point saying you made mistakes with such confidence those mistakes were accepable and normal as it just isn't believable. None of my mistakes have led to bad relationships or estrangement with my children so I don't need to share them. If that happened I would share all of them as I would want advice on how to fix it, every little detail x
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