What else can I do for my daughter to want me in her life

I wonder if you should re think the allegation toward your GD, seeing it as a possibility because of the poor child's abusive upbringing during her first 5 years.

I agree with Smileless that it would be wise to reconsider re the allegation against your granddaughter, in the light of her inappropriate behaviour when she came to live with you. Your grandson is looking to his mother for support and too often children are disbelieved by adults because it is so difficult; there seems no reason, from what you say, as to why he should be lying. The poor child appears to have kept this secret for several years, how dreadful for him.

Your daughter has young children and will rightly want to take no risks with them. I cannot comment on why she feels that your husband must have abused your granddaughter...from what you have told us your GD could have learnt her behaviours from watching her mother as a young child. But if your daughter believes there is any possibility that she was abused by someone then she will rightly protect her children. From HER perspective you remain with a child abuser, and as she believes that she will struggle to let you be around her children, alone or otherwise.

You will never convince her she is wrong, the more you try, the more she is reaffirmed in her perceptions - especially in a subject of this magnitude.

I agree with Hitheres comment above. I think you have to accept her decision. Don't disown her. Tell her that you understand she must stand with her children. Tell her that your GD appeared to have learnt the behaviour from watching her own mother, not by being abused directly by your husband. Tell her you believe your Grandson (if you do!) After that it really is up to her.

I do understand how painful this is for you. I also understand your daughter's perspective on the basis of what she believes to be the truth.

First you say

"Me and my son were successful in him gaining custody of his daughter away from mother who physically and mentally abused her. My gd came away with issues, displaying signs of a sexual inappropriate behaviour. My son and his partner dealt with it all, putting her in counselling, social services etc"
So you first say your gd was abused

Then:
"My 11yr old gd has never been abused sexually by anybody, she observed her own mother doing things with numerous partners whilst in her care but we all know she hasn't been abused physically herself."

So you say your gd was NOT abused.

What is it? She was or she wasn't?

Your GD WAS SEXUALLY ABUSED. Whether it was physical or mental, your gd WAS SEXUALLY ABUSED

I can see how your dd does not want you around her kids.

You are in denial.

You do not know what sexual abuse is.
I doubt you were able to identify any red flags by your dh's behaviour.

And this is how sexual abuse persists generationally. There is something wrong with your DH that your DD thinks he’s abused her niece. Your daughter is being a good mother and protecting her children. Be a good grandmother and LISTEN to your children and grandchildren. Sending the police after your DD proves he’s a bully at the very least. She’s well rid of you.

Exactly Madgran elena's D believes the allegations she's made against her stepfather to be true despite them having been investigated and no evidence found to substantiate her belief.

I'm staggered that any poster here should think it appropriate to suggest that her H is a sexual abuser in light of what we've been told.

Smileless,

Do you know how hard is to prove sexual abuse unless there are pictures, video, etc?

I am not saying her dh an abuser, but we cannot take OP at her word as she clearly does not know what sexual abuse is, as she elaborated on her post.

We only have the word of elana Hithere. That's the problem when we have a post from a GP whose upset because they're not allowed to see their GC, we're never supposed to to take their word but it's OK to make our own assumptions.

If abuse can't be proven then it didn't happen and we should always just take people at their word even when they are contradicting themselves? Nope.

There is so much dysfunctional thinking in what elena wrote (much of which has been pointed out already) that it makes it very hard to take anything she says as 'fact'.

Some people refuse to overlook flat-Earth mentality when they see it. If daughter sees the world as round, 'mom' is not going to convince her that the world is flat/that she is wrong.

It sounds like grand-daughter got counselling etc. and should be 'fixed', but it is clear that there is way more going on in the family then the broken child and that is being ignored/diminished due to denial of an overall family/generational problem.

Ignoring/denial of there being something 'wrong' in the family beyond the Scapegoat members, then there will never be healing or reconciliation.

So it's the "old question"... Do you want to be 'right' or do you want to fix what's broken and be happier/get what you want? Which should be to heal the family rift/end estrangement, because you really cannot have both.

People who walk away from their families often cite being tired of being 'wrong' all the time/scapegoated as one of the reasons. The opening line of the comment was, How do I get through to my daughter to make her see how wrong she is.

Maybe that "old question" should be put to elena's D.

elena, How was your daughters relationship with her stepfather before all of this?

This is coming across as though she might feel he was unsafe long before this, and now finally has an “excuse” to cut him off.

How do I get through to my daughter to make her see how wrong she is.

Try this instead

How do I reassure my daughter whose child has been exposed to sexual behaviour that her stepfather is not responsible? Is there anything I should be asking her?

Yes. You need to ask her why she believes that. You need to ask her if your granddaughter said anything to her son. You need to ask her if her stepfather has ever been inappropriate with her. You need to listen to her answers.

Smileless -- Elena's daughter is not the one who wants contact and is not getting it, so how would the "old question" apply to her?

Because it takes 2 people or both sides to want to heal a relationship HolyHannah and the person or party who doesn't want to 'fix' the relationship should make sure they've asked themselves and answered the "old question".

That's a question estranged children ask themselves every day, until estrangement. They have to be "wrong" to have a relationship. On everything generally. At the point of estrangement, they start asking themselves if they want to continue after years of being the only bending over backwards and being the "wrong" one to keep the relationship going.

In the case of someone who suspects sexual abuse has occurred, I expect right or wrong with sexual abuse being incredibly hard to prove doesn't matter. The risk matters. I would not take such a risk.

I am a child who was sexually abused whose own mother did not believe me and did nothing to protect me. This mother will not even take that risk. Great mum.

Healing a relationship means talking honestly about it

elana is not doing that.

Smileless -- You are correct. It does take "both sides". But when one side is in denial and the other side goes No Contact because they cannot break through the overall family dysfunction/denial that there is more to the family problems then just them -- nothing will change.

People go and remain No Contact because they can see the issue that the other side refuses to accept/deal with appropriately. So blame the daughter but there is more going on that is not being addressed and until it is, elena is not going to be happy/get what she wants, which is renewed contact with her grandchild.

There are the posters on here (we all know who you are!) who will never accept that EC could possibly be at fault and all the problems are down to parents who, no matter how much they may debase themselves in the attempt to reestablish relationships, will always be firmly in the wrong and cannot be forgiven. I’m sure there are people who have been treated badly by their parents and can justify their own estrangement but others behave badly and justify their bad behaviour by blaming their parents - and when the parents say they don’t know what they have done it is seized upon as proof of their parental inadequacy. Talk about Catch-22!
Some of you should actually read and digest the EP’s posts instead of tarring everyone with the same brush and inflicting your bitterness on them.

I shall now put on my hard hat and retreat to my bunker........

I have posted in thread supporting the OP, validating them on their feelings and abusive actions of their AC.
Now a person who first says her gd was abused and then denies it - a totally different story

tidyskatemum I do not think replies in this thread are about an estranged parent saying they dont know what they have done and being in Carch 22 from any EAC! The replies are pointing out considerations that the OP may well need to take into account!!

In this case the OP is asking for advice because her daughter is clearly and quite rightly from her perspective, protecting her children.

The OP believes her daughter is wrong but her daughter has to protect her children. This is a difficult and painful time for the OP . It is also a very difficult and painful time for her daughter and perhaps most of all for her grandson and granddaughter who, it seems likely from information given, have both suffered abuse. Not that we can know that for certain ofcourse but the mother is NOT "behaving badly" with the decision she is taking, based on her perpective.

Equally the OP believes her husband is not an abuser. We cannot know either way. But her daughter believes he is and is protecting her children. I cannot criticise her for that.

Nodding along to what Madgran said on this one. Quite well put.

Madgran -- You nailed it.

I have not blamed the D for not wanting her children to see her step father HolyHannah.

In my initial response I suggested that elena consider that her D may well have felt that her son's allegations of his cousins behaviour had not been given due consideration, and that may well have something to do with subsequent allegations.

I still feel this is something worthy of consideration.

Madgran ...I'm wondering if tidyskatemum post was in reply to Panda220 the original post to this thread, and not Elena's?

elana

Smileless … Excellent post, thoughtful, compassionate and truthful.

Smileless ...14.27, 30th March

Madgran ...I'm wondering if tidyskatemum post was in reply to Panda220 the original post to this thread, and not Elena's?
You could be right namsnanny . I got confused as to who the OP was, sorry!