What else can I do for my daughter to want me in her life

I dont really see any one blaming the daughter, more pondering on all the nuances of an awful situation.

Madgran -- Smileless suggested that elena's daughter should answer "the old question" as if somehow daughter was doing something 'wrong' by not wanting to work toward reconciliation. Or turning it back to the 'two-sides' argument. You should know full well that when dealing with dysfunctional thinkers/abusers there are no 'two sides'.

Many Estranged Parents cry that they want to see their grands but won't 'walk on eggshells' or 'debase themselves' or whatever they need to do to get to their self-reported goal of family reconciliation -- including court action. Which is actually just a bullying tactic and again is not in any way addressing any family issues that may be present.

Some EP's believe that their children want them to 'change' and that they are not going to do 'that' because whatever adjustments that their AC request is unreasonable.

EAC would love for their parents to change but -- what we really REALLY want is recognition that there is a problem! Change isn't going to happen until the unhappy party in the relationship (the NC parent/grand-parent) recognizes that their behavior dictates the REaction of others'.

So if someone is flipping between, "My grand-daughter was abused to the point of need counselling and removal from her abusive 'mom'." to the grandchild was "never abused" I wouldn't allow this person around minor children of mine either.

So if someone is flipping between, "My grand-daughter was abused to the point of need counselling and removal from her abusive 'mom'." to the grandchild was "never abused" I wouldn't allow this person around minor children of mine either.

Neither would I which I think was clear from my previous post, if that was the case.

Re "the old question", I missed that part of your post or at least forgot it. I think if the daughter was asked that question, her answer, within the context of her perpective, would be very robust! In this case I don't think reconciliation of any sort is the key issue, I think the needs of the children are the key issue.

As I said previously this is a painful time for the OP and for her daughter. But most of all it is the pain of the children which is the key issue

I hope the OP has found food for thought on this thread.

HH

You nailed it

"EAC would love for their parents to change but -- what we really REALLY want is recognition that there is a problem! Change isn't going to happen until the unhappy party in the relationship (the NC parent/grand-parent) recognizes that their behavior dictates the REaction of others'."

I agree Madgran it's a painful time for elena and her D "but most of all it is the pain of the children which is the key issue".

I too hope Elena has listened to the thoughts replied to her. Going for visitation with the grandchildren at this time without properly listening to the needs of her daughter who believes her stepfather to be abusive is unwise. Having her children visit with a man she believes abusive or a mum that won't take her concerns seriously would be utterly devastating.

elena has already posted that her husband will not be having * any* contact with his step daughter or her children.

Smileless,

OP is the problem here, not her husband.

Her dysfunctional thinking is the issue here.
It clearly shows why her dd does not trust her

Her dh may not have any contact, but how about OP talking about her dh to the gc? Showing pictures of grandpa?
OP talking pics of the kids and showing them to Dh?

This is not about direct contact only. It is about protecting the children on all fronts

Hithere -- Exactly. The easiest way to explain a dysfunctional environment to a child is not expose them to it in any form.

Smileless might I draw your attention to the word "or" in my post. If any visitation were to occur in the home at any point or mention made of her husband outside of the home in a contact centre that would be devastating.

Hithere I should have read your reply before answering.

Do not take risks with allegations of sexual abuse. Ever. As I explained here a long time ago, aged 8 I came to my mum crying and saying I did not want to share a bed with my grandfather any more. To most that would ring alarm bells. For an abusive person who enjoys their child suffering it does not. No questions were asked of me. Nothing was followed up. Nothing was ever done about it.

That's the problem with making assumptions Hithere. We have no way of knowing whether elena who by the way is not the OP of this thread, would talk to her D's children about her H, show the children pictures of him or take pictures of the children and show them to her H.

Why would she do that when her H has said he wants nothing to do with his step daughter or her children?

elena wants contact with her D's children, her GC. Her H who has been investigated for child molestation and has no case to answer doesn't want to have any contact with them.

The accusation of abuse has come from the D not from the GD who was taken away from her abusive mother and witnessed things that no child should ever have to see.

Smileless Do you believe every fellow estranged parent so incapable of speaking for themselves that you must answer for them or fight the corner of strangers continuously? It's very offputting.

Or perhaps you believe us incapable of comprehending what we are readimg Smileless which is very rude. Especially when some of us seem to have a deeper understanding of the dangers to children and just how adept abusive people are at hiding it unless you know the signs.

If anyone isincapable of comprehending what they read, that is their issue not mine.

Unfortunately due to my own childhood experiences I have a very deep "understanding of the dangers to children and just how adept abusive people are at hiding it".

I know the signs but don't allow my own experience to blinker me to other possibilities.

I'm not blinkered Smileless for thinking it reasonable to be cautious in a situation like this or for thinking it unreasonable to try to gain access to minor children whose mother has this sort of fear whether right or wrong. I'm not surprised you think that is blinkered.

Smileless -- When it comes to protecting vulnerable minors if abuse is even a possibility then that is what a good parent will work off of. A parent that doesn't care will go, "Well maybe he is abusive maybe he isn't. I'll toss my child into the mix and see how it 'works out'."

It's not about being blind to "other possibilities". There are huge red flags in what elena wrote. When red flags are present a responsible parent doesn't use their child as a 'test subject' to see IF a person is going to be abusive or not. You don't take the chance regardless of genetic relationship.

It's proof positive that this daughter is not keeping her children away without a very good reason. Also other very good reasons, like her own mother putting herself first. Prioritising contact with the grandchildren over a relationship with her own child. Prioritising her husband over her own child.

Perhaps you should take a look at elena's original post on Monday at 12.47. All the information is there, we only know what we've been told of course but better to work with what we've been told than to embellish it to suit a our own purpose.

Smileless -- What has been 'embellished'?

Smileless
We are not embellishing.at.all.
We are reading what she wrote.

Good grief.

This is an old thread resurrected. The answer, let it be.

Thankyou to all those supporting me throughout my awful situation I find myself in. I've tried explaining my situation but some are just reading between the lines and not fully understanding. My husband has NEVER had a relationship with my d children, my gc. He has always stayed away, just his choice. So he has never been around my gc, visiting with me, birthdays, holidays, it's just his way, apart from xmas day. I am the only person that has ever visited my d at her home to see my gc. My husband has only had contact with my sons 11yr old d, my gd due to him playing a massive part in her life, supporting her through the bad times of when she lived with her mother and the abuse before my son gained custody of her. My son has always relied on mine and my husbands help so he could work. And when my gd was in our care it was myself that provided most of the support as my h worked nights, slept all day and on his days off spent time with my gd in my presence. My son people are forgetting was also present every night when tucking his daughter into bed. My h was going to work then, and my son even today will ask for our help collecting my 11yr old gd from school, allowing her to come for tea etc. Am I to understand that a grandfather spending precious time with their gc constitutes to them being an abuser?
My d has listened to her 11yr old son tell her that he and his cousin when they were both 6yrs old did rude things together. And with this my d came to the conclusion that my gd must've been shown what to do in order to re-enact things with her cousin therefore because of my h having extensive contact with my gd then he must be a peodophile. No mention of my gd having extensive contact with her own mothers boyfriends or the maternal gf or so many males in my gd life, no, she simply pointed her finger at my h, nobody else.
And fact that social workers and police have shut down all the complaints my d has made, spoken with my 11yr old gd and all concluding that NOTHING untoward has happened physically to my gd. So now my d has concluded that some big conspiracy has gone on to bury her complaint, that social workers have lied, u name it even down to her saying that I must have PAID off the original sw, cafcass and courts to ensure my son gained custody of my gd 6 yrs ago. This has raised red flags to me that there are certainly some serious mental issues going on with my d think process. As I do not have the clout and in no high rise position to pay off anybody such as our court system etc. And also my d has also accused her own brother of abusing my gd if not my h. Again unbelievable allegations, words fail me !!!