Cut out of the estranged GPs will, dilemma!

So are you saying that those who are unable to move on with their lives, to put the past behind them and live happy and productive lives have developed genuine mental health issues or personality disorders Yennifer?

I don't think it's healthy to use what has happened to you to be an excuse to be an unreasonable person. I think that's not always conscious though for people who have developed genuine mental health issues or personality disorders at times x

And is it possible that, for some, it's easier not to move on because we've allowed victimhood to define us?

It is a great shame when that is the case.

All sorts of awful things can happen to children and adult children that parents don't know about, that can have impacts on how things are shaped. Times might change and things parents thought were good parenting back then aren't true now and that can shape things. So many many factors can happen. In 40 years time all my careful research and parenting could turn out to be harmful. That's evolution! I literally have qualifications in child development. I feel like one of the fortunate ones who actually did get training in how to parent. It could still be wrong. I'm not a psychologist but I think there are reasons behind everything and one day we will know and understand them all x

Yes a great post Madgran and from you too Chewbacca.

If we were only the sum of our upbringing then how could we ever develop and grow and learn as adults?

This is an excellent post Madgran, agree with you 100%. The question has to be asked; at what age do we have to accept responsibility for ourselves? Of course, if you've been abused physically, emotionally or mentally, it's to be expected that there will be scars from that. But at what point is it unhealthy to still be clutching and nursing those scars, or going back over it all again and again instead of moving on and making your life the best it can be? And is it possible that, for some, it's easier not to move on because we've allowed victimhood to define us?

I too think that all parents have some responsibility for how our children grow into adulthood but not all; there are so many other factors and influences and events that can impact on their adult choices. Different contexts create different responses and choices in adulthood and different people have different influences.

Yes Yennifer I believe as parents we do have some responsibility for how our children turn out, some but not all.

You are a great example of how an AC can be a better person and parent than your own mother, despite the abusive childhood you endured.

If we don't teach our children by example to be kind and considerate to others they probably wont be. If we don't teach them to share they're more likely to be selfish. If we don't teach them to treat others the way they want to be treated, they probably wont.

Even when we do all of the aforementioned together with 'cause and effect' and the importance of taking responsibility for one's own actions, sometimes they become someone we no longer recognise.

They can 'get in with the wrong crowd', mess around with alcohol, drugs or both. Commit themselves to someone with issues that are so overpowering they turn away from the family that loves them.

We felt as you do in your last post but our ES's wife's influence was and is greater than ours.

I have ACs and still raising children and I feel a lot of their personality and character is influenced by me and their father before we factor in their friends and partners influence x

I'm not a psychologist or anything like that to know what causes these things. Do parents have no responsibility how their children turn out though? I'm very sure not total responsibility but none?

Something that as an EP, and no doubt many EP's are all too aware of Madgran. It's our fault, even when it isn't.

The comment that it is always the parents who are responsible for their children's disfunctional behaviour. What a sweeping statement and so untrue.

Absolutely Sparkling. Every story is different and there are different causes and contexts to each estrangement. If we were only the sum of our upbringing then how could we ever develop and grow and learn as adults? Just as we can be influenced positively or negatively as adults by others so we might have been influenced positively or negatively by our parents as children.

Even when patterns can be found in estrangement it does not mean that there are no exceptions to those patterns.

Starlady : As you say that if my money helped the grand-children then that is money well spent, in fact any thing given to my grand-children from me came from my generosity and a good heart although some extended family told me I continuously thought of the GC and to step back and care about myself. IMO if I saw the GC perhaps in need of new school shoes and they had not been bought within a couple of weeks then I would just go and buy them myself when I was able to see the GCs faces when I arrived with new shoes or anything else that was payment enough for me.

Yogagirl thank you xx

}}}Hugs{{{ Smileless Hope alls well this morning & that you & Mr.S are chatting away happily, pain free in body & heart. God Bless you both xxx

It certainly makes a difficult time all the harder to deal with Sparkling especially as we were so close to ES and there was a time when he'd have been here for us. Just to have heard his voice would have made all the difference. Still, there's no point on dwelling what will never be is there.

He's doing OK thanks Starlady and as long as he's OK, so am I.

Sorry things didn't go as planned, Smileless, and that you felt so alone. Hope things are going better by the time you read this.

3granny6, if your finances "took a dip" b/c you helped out your GC, IMO, that' was money well spent.

Granniesunite, love your post! I think you've figured things out very wisely.

Smiless, I am so sorry your husband had a tough time yesterday and hopefully he's now on the mend, I feel for you on your own at such a time, you have a son and family not far away and yet you were not supported, I find that very hard. It's not right.
Sending you my best wishes ?

I am not trying to be humorous, I will just say in complete honesty that I do not have a great amount of money to leave.
I have helped out my daughter who is now estranged and have always provided what has been asked of me for the grand-children so my finances took a dip.

I had contact with my now estranged grand-children and have been putting money aside for them which I will save and leave some clear paperwork stating that the money left is solely for them. In all I have three children and I have told the other two who are not estranged that there will only be some money when I have gone for the grand-children.

Thank you Nonnie and Granniesunite.

I understand that loneliness Smileless. Hope Mr S is on the road to recovery now. Another hidden pain of estrangement.

As to my intentions re inheritance to an estranged AC. For the sake of harmony with syblings and because my AC is still my child and I will always love that AC, I will leave the same amount as the rest.
But as I help my children whenever I can financially while I'm living and, continue to do so, my estranged AC misses out on that support.
Also if my AC refuses the inheritance that money gets split between the syblings.

Oh Smile that sounds very hard. I do hope you are coping. I sometimes think it is harder to watch a loved one being ill than to be ill yourself. Big virtual hug.

Yes it is a sweeping statement and a false one Sparkling.

Mr. S. had surgery yesterday, he's OK but it didn't go as planned and there were complications. With DS in Aus. I had the longest 5 hours of my life waiting for him to get back to the ward and not knowing what was going on.

What I wouldn't have given to have had ES to talk too during that time. I've never felt so alone.

I am not estranged do anything I have goes to my children. I cannot however see it as their right. The comment that it is always the parents who are responsible for their children's disfunctional behaviour. What a sweeping statement and so untrue. If someone makes your life unbearably hard, denying you contact with grandchildren, that want nothing to do with you, why would you leave that child anything? By pass them and leave it to the grandchildren. How can you live with yourself not knowing if your mother or father was well or needed help, it's beyond me. If it's abuse, I see that, but not a clash of personality. So, it's up to you to whom and what you leave. They feel they have no duty to you after all.

Starlady, definitely ways to make sure it doesn't cause conflict after you are gone x