National treasures. Who would you choose?
Gransnet forums
Estrangement
The "abuse cycle" and other things/themes that EAC identify with.
(480 Posts)I understand that some EP's are profoundly hurt by their adult child(ren) choice to estrange/go No Contact. How someone reacts to being hurt is very telling in my opinion.
It is one thing for EP's to call estrangement a "living bereavement" but to go so far as to have memorial services and I even read about an EP that held a mock funeral and invited all the rest of the family that was loyal to her to the 'grave-side' ceremony. She wanted to show her young grand-daughter, her daughters child, what happens when you turn your back on 'family' by lowering a box of her Uncles possessions into the ground.
Sadly, abusive parents like that take those actions as a way to make them "feel better"/'take back their control' etc. Do they think of the implications of those actions? What must that poor child have thought? Clearly son/uncle was right to walk away from his FOO and the fact that his sister 'stood' with their mom and exposed her own child to that shows how the cycle of abuse works.
The message that child received was, "If you aren't 'good enough' or behave the 'right way' (their way) then you will be disposed of/'let go' as well." What could be more terrifying to a child? A minor child who has no exit options. Hint -- nothing... The fear of being abandoned/'cast out' was constant in my world because I was taught, "You don't matter and no one cares what happens to you..."
Now if the son finds out about this 'funeral', he'll probably go, "Yeah. Goes to show what she really thinks of Me. She'd rather see me 'dead' then stop abusing Me or even examine the possibility that she might be part of the issue."
I always felt like my 'mom' wanted me to kill myself and when I read EP's talking like that I thought, "Well, the fact that they are willing to do that in effigy says to me, maybe that's really where some abusive parents DO want their goat/lesser child(ren) to be... Dead." When/IF We finally 'wake-up'/come out of the FOG, also known as our breaking point/rock bottom, we refuse to enable the abuse by tolerating/accepting the abuse any further.
I believe this is what abusive EP's mean when they say, "My child needs to own 'their part' in the estrangement." I believe abusers think their victims "part" is that they (the victim) 'allowed'/accepted the abuse for as long as they did. What a beautiful/perfect denial of reality... "My child always 'accepted' how I treated them and even 'praised' Me as a 'mom' with cards and notes and AND AND..."
Of course abused children do 'those things' that abusive parents state. It is a child's attempt to get the love they desperately crave and abusers see that as 'proof' that they were a 'good' parent. Unfortunately, many of us eventually realize they is no love to be had regardless of what we do/have done.
The attitude of "that's just how I am, take it or leave it" is a sign of immaturity. As an adult, it's your responsibility to figure out which of your traits are toxic and are negatively impactful towards other people and the ones you love, and to eventually learn how to fix them. At some point we all have to start making ourselves better individuals. If you truly believe you don't have to change anything about yourself, even at the very least the worst in you and that people will just have to deal with it, then sorry, you are still a child. -- Anonymous
This is from an EP and I was actually a little stunned...
Recently had a conversation with someone who has been going through the early stages of rejection/estrangement. It was heartbreaking to hear her talk about how the situation has unfolded. I wish that I could take these young people by the scruff of their necks and just spank their sorry rear ends. To watch this incredibly loving, generous woman try to come to grips with the shock and grief was gut wrenching.
We all know how the “song” plays out:
1. You’re a failure. You didn’t blah blah blah for me.
2. I am your superior and you can’t say anything to defend yourself because you are the culprit.
3. You are not the victim here. This is all about me and how you failed me.
4. You need to see a therapist because you are in denial about how awful you really are.
5. Don’t contact me, I’ll contact you.
6. You are toxic and if you can’t see it is because you are really messed up.
On and on. It is like they are reading from the same sick script. I watched her face as she went through what had been said to her and how she tried to defend herself. Saw the sadness and confusion playing across her face. God help me, I wish I could for just one day, one hour, put these “kids” into some kind of situation where they could see and experience the the devastation they are inflicting on good, kind, caring people. It is sick, sick, sick behavior. I know many would not make the jump from what they experienced to how their behavior is hurting others – but I guess I keep hoping that some would.
All I could do was listen, share the lessons I am learning too late (apologies, apologies, apologies don’t work, taking the abuse won’t work, letting go of my own reality and life won’t work). I wanted so very much to waive a magic wand and make the pain stop.
This is 100% the sort of thing my 'mom' would say...
My thoughts are:
"I wish that I could take these young people by the scruff of their necks and just spank their sorry rear ends." Really? Who the heck does a 'parent' like that think they are? The reverse is, from an abused child/now adult like Me, "I'd break your arm for 'trying'." And if I/or another abused child said or worse endorsed 'that' in self defense? Just think on who wanted to hit who first.
My reality is/was -- My 'mom'/abusers hit Me over and over and over (emotionally/physically etc.) and when I hit my "breaking point" and 'hit back' by walking away? THEY are the 'victim'...
I also loved this statement -- "I am your superior and you can’t say anything to defend yourself because you are the culprit." NO. This is another dysfunctional EP falsehood. I have never met an EAC that thought/thinks they are superior EVER. The only EAC I have met have only ever wanted EQUAL. And that 'theme' is never going to happen...
It's almost as if us setting boundaries and saying what behaviour we are not willing to be around as adults has had the exact same reaction from some quarters.
The idea that we must be following a script always makes me laugh.
What does everyone tell you to do if your relationship with a partner makes you miserable eh?
Same applies to parents. It's the exact same "script".
The "script" being, walk away from relationships that are harming you because they won't agree to treat you with kindness and respect and find better ones.
Starblaze -- "The idea that we must be following a script always makes me laugh." Me too. Oddly a lot of EP's miss that they have a 'script' as well.
"I didn't do anything to deserve estrangement."
"I was a 'good' mother."
"They (EAC) rewrite the past/lie/make up excuses to justify their behavior."
"It's the evil third-party..."
"I don't have anything to apologize for..."
"God help me, I wish I could for just one day, one hour, put these “kids” into some kind of situation where they could see and experience the the devastation they are inflicting on good, kind, caring people. It is sick, sick, sick behavior." But it's not "sick, sick, sick" behavior to wish pain on your child regardless of what they have 'done'? Like, that's the attitude that probably was an issue before their child(ren) went No Contact.
The 'theme' I am most recently reminded of is -- Us not wanting to be around/engage with, regardless of what 'they' give Us is somehow an affront/disrespect etc. to THEM.
I compare it to this... If I was drowning in salt-water and my 'mom' could throw me a 'life jacket' or into a pool of fresh water to save Me? She'd pick the 'different water' because if I was "good enough" I would either know how to 'swim' or I was the failure she saw Me as. Maybe I wouldn't have been a failure/drowned if when I'd said, "I'm drowning." she had passed me a vest instead of a different pool or water or a concrete brick.
If you don't want to be around or engage with for example a parent, then refuse anything they give you. Why on earth would you accept it?
If you receive something, send it back and if you accepted a gift of money prior to estranging the giver, and no longer want anything to do with the person/people who gave it, pay it back.
A 'theme' I am often reminded of is the acceptance of gifts including time for free child care and financial assistance and when it is no longer required, there is no longer a desire to engage.
I'm just baffled as to why, once someone has been hurt sufficiently badly enough to become estranged from someone else, why would you expect anything at all? It seems to be an unhealthy way to live; in perpetual expectation of receiving help from someone who has apparently consistently disappointed you. It's just setting yourself up for more disappointment, surely?
This thread fell off my notifications again Holyhannah quick comment to put it back on, to come back to, before I fall asleep
Chewbacca -- The situation I am speaking of is when a minor child is in the 'care' of their adult parent.
I have made it clear that when any child becomes an adult, the only thing they should expect is mutual respect from their parent(s).
A minor child should rightfully expect and deserves positive help from their parent(s). As I said, no minor child should expect more/different water to drown in or a brick that will help you sink, as "help" from a parent.
Your post yesterday made no mention of a "minor child .. in the care of their adult parent" HolyHannah.
If you receive something, send it back
Smiles sending something back is a form of communication. It rewards bad behaviour.
When we receive something it just goes in the bin. We didn’t ask for it. We’ve said No communication.
I don't see how sending something back rewards bad behaviour; it shows that it isn't wanted.
The sender of an unwanted gift has no way of knowing if it's been thrown away or kept and not having that knowledge could encourage them to send others.
OK. Then why should someone take time and money out of their day to do such a pointless thing?
If they want to carry on. Then the fact is I don’t care.
The other thread shows that no acknowledgment does have an affect. It does send a clear message.
Who said anyone should? You say you don't care "If they want to carry on" so that's OK then.
I personally don’t care. But then the person doing it can’t play the victim when they continue to break someone’s boundaries. It just proves that we have made the right decision and that the CO is in our and our best interests.
As I've said if you don't care that's OK then and even better if it proves you have made the right decision and that the CO is in your best interests.
Bibbity -- "sending something back is a form of communication. It rewards bad behaviour." -- Exactly and like this hasn't been discussed before.
No Contact is a very clear message. We want nothing. If we still wanted/hoped for something, like a healthy relationship, we'd still be around and aiming for that.
Besides... A 'gift' is just that -- something given without expectations/strings/obligations etc. otherwise it's not really a gift.
So IF an EP insists on sending a 'gift' then they need to grasp, that 'gift' regardless of what it is, does not create an obligation on their AC to do anything including interacting with them. If that cannot be accepted/respected? Don't send anything!
Only the sender knows if a gift is sent to create an obligation or elicit a response, or simply to let the recipient know they are loved and missed.
That word "loved" is one that came into my mind as I read the recent posts on this thread. Absent isn't it.
I hope for more than 'mutual respect' in my relationships with my adult children. I hope we love each other. Even where relationships break down, love often remains along with the loss.
Well if they really loved them why would they want to cause distress?
That’s not how I eat to be loved.
Eat ?? FML
What possible reason do child abuse victims have to 'love' their parent(s)?
One -- those people never did 'the job' of being a parent...
Two -- my 'mom' decided she didn't love me first! If she truly loved Me then she wouldn't have abused Me.
Love is never abusive and if it is? IT was never love.
So if love is absent? It didn't start with the child. My 'mom' gets the love she gives which is NONE.
Iam64
I still care about my mum. I don't want her to be unhappy. The problem I have is that I spent a great deal of my life trying and failing to be whatever it was that would make her happy with me and eventually I had to realise that, it wasn't something I could fix. My making an effort to make her happy while she made an effort to make me unhappy... Well it wasn't sustainable and it was negatively impacting me and the people who needed Me.
love often remains along with the loss Yes that's true Iam.
We only know about our own experiences, our own AC, our own parents. Not all parent/child relationships break down because of abuse so it follows that there are EP's who did and continue to love the AC that's estranged them.
Love often remains along with the loss, yes Iam that is true.
HolyHannah you have said.
Love is never abusive and if it is? IT was never love.
Parent /child relationships do break down that does not mean to say that abuse existed. Care and Love went hand in hand for my daughter she would not know abuse if it bit her on the behind.
There are posts on here about sending "unwanted" gifts once someone has estranged from you personally that is not something I would do.
To be ignored for periods of time by my daughter is common to me only when she has explored all other avenues and can get no money I am on the phone number list to ask for a money gift as her birthday is approaching.
So i am a total crap mum am I? did not bring her up correctly and oh dear it's all my fault she is in a mess.
Then I suppose the theme is that E.A.C. who knows about abuse better ring "mummy" as she always can be counted on
for a few quid at least she is good enough for that.
Join the conversation
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join the discussion, watch threads and lots more.
Register now »Already registered? Log in with:
Gransnet »