Frightened I will never see her or overcome this block

It's the truth. Even if it isn't Smileless you haven't acknowledged my point or answered the question which is something that bothers you when others do it to you.

Namsnanny it was a joke. Besides in not arguing, I'm just trying to explain my point and gave it understood. Was it you that said reversing what people say is a valid way of arguing a point? Because that is not how it's being done. People talking about their experience is not any kind of argument that needs a reverse perspective.

Ironflower … Thank you for coming back and explaining your perspective again.
It is brave of you, considering the post was deleted.
No idea why.

Yes I'm all for a kinder and more welcoming culture here.

I'm so sorry you were put through such a bad time.

People often hide behind the caveat that they are 'helping' some one by pointing out something or the other that they don't agree with.
Kindness thoughtfulness, and genuine sincerity are the first characteristics needed before someone can offer up their opinions as 'advice'.

|Madgran … Thank you for quoting and reposting Ironflower. I totally agree with your reasons why.

One of the biggest problems with my mum was that If I told her she was hurting me, she went on the attack. Obviously I later realised she was hurting me on purpose so it was a pointless exercise really. Any effort to make her understand certain behaviour was hurtful led to more attacks on me and more of the thing she now knew was hurtful.

Healthy people don't do that.

I tell my husband something he did hurt my feelings and he might get defensive at first but after a while he apologises and makes a huge effort not to do it again. Finding a way to get on with each other is how all humans build healthy relationships.

All loving healthy relationships meet half way.

I was not a perfect daughter. I don't claim to be a perfect person, I have my buttons like anyone else.

The reason I am estranged is that, I was willing to work on my problems and faults in order to have a healthy relationship with my mum.

My mum did not want to change. She did not want to stop doing the things I found hurtful. She ultimately wanted to hurt me. She also wanted me to see her as perfect while deliberately hurting me. It's a crazy making situation you have to walk away from to resolve.

There is always fault on both sides of an argument. No one is perfect.

Perhaps it was a joke, perhaps it wasn't. Only you know for sure.

On the topic of reversing aspects of a discussion, you believe what you believe.

To repeat it back to you as I understand it, you feel it is a manipulation of your experiences as an abused person to do this (reverse), and not 'validating' (your word meaning to 'accept') those experiences.

I still think it is there to show the polarisation of an argument.

So I'm sorry, but there is little of use left to be said on the matter.

I genuinely wish you well

In reply to your later post, I understand what gaslighting feels like very well.
I also recognise the scenario you described with your mother. Like a fly in a web isn't it? Every way you turn your good intentions are thwarted.

Is anyone on here really out to make you feel the same way as your Mother did?

Is there any real reason to think they would be that invested in your misery?

I don't know that's for sure.

Namsnanny

If someone is badly mauled by a dog and is now afraid of and mistrustful of dogs incase they are also aggressive. Which scenario works best?

Scenario 1: argument/reversal

"Well I am a dog lover and humans attack dogs too! I see humans attack dogs all the time and just because a dog attacked you doesn't mean all dogs are vicious!“

Scenario 2: compassion and patience

"You've had a terrible experience with dogs and I can understand why you mistrust them. I hope you can learn to trust dogs in general again even though some are vicious I agree, I'd love to show you over time how gentle and kind my dogs are and we can build your trust back up together"

Namsnanny I am currently giving the benefit of the doubt still and trying to get my perspective heard. I haven't estranged anyone here yet lol

In the last I have apologised for my part in arguments but after posts have been deleted I think my words have been confused with other people's. I didn't disagree with what those other people were saying at the time which I admit was wrong but I was angry as I genuinely felt harassed and bullied and my many attempts to explain myself were ignored and just brought more anger in my direction.

So yes it does remind me of my experience with my mum but I am doing my best to treat it as a seperate situation and have people understand why it's really not healthy.

Scenario 1 is a true statement

Scenario 2 is an emotional reaction.

My example 2 cars crash.

Scenario 1 - Just because some cars crash doesn't mean all cars crash. True statement

Scenario 2 - My car has been crashed. Someone else hit my car in the past. You should show me compassion and teach me to trust in cars again.

Smileless … Thanks that made me laugh, yes evolve/change or die!
I admit to wishing that on some, in my darkest moments.

But not quite, the Dinosaurs were wiped out (along with around 75% of living creatures) by events beyond their evolutionary control.
Ahha, so there is something bigger than all of us?!

Scenario 1 is making the person's problem all about you. When it is not about you. Scenario 2 is making the person's problem about them when it is about them.

There are 2 ways of hurting someone. Direct and indirect or on purpose and accidental.

You may do something not meaning to hurt someone. However, any well meaning gesture becomes a deliberate attempt to hurt them when they tell you it is hurtful and you carry on doing it without apology.

Namsnannny

Something else to consider: There isn't an "us"-

Isn't a you, me nor a he, she or them-

No we-

No dinosaurs-

Just an infinite collection of universal, cosmic connective-ness-

Therefore, nothing to be bigger, seen or unseen-

Nothing to be, but be-

Yes rosecarmel I am not we as I am me... Although the way us English use language makes that one complicated at times as we use the royal "you" as we feel silly if we say "one" and it causes a lot of confusion lol

What if one was all there is/was .. ?

Once upon a time ..

There was a stateside forum, designed with grandparents in mind- It became toxic, diagnosed with helicopters, ennui, groupthink and we speak- The prognosis was announced, goodbyes were described with weak type- Then, it died-

I don't think anyone cried-

Except, maybe, Father McKenzie-

rosecarmel 'There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for or why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory mentioned which states that this has already happened.`

Would it be a good idea to continue this debate on the "nuances of whatever" on a newly created especially for the purpose thread? What would the title be? The title of this thread certainly doesn't match the discussion going on now!!

I understand Madgran because I disliked threads going off topic. I was told to get over it though so I have lol

No bother, why bother? Fluff your crinoline, pick a chair, pour a cup of tea ..

No bother, why bother? Fluff your crinoline, pick a chair, pour a cup of tea

Um ??? [confused .

Um ???

Pull up a chair Madgran and join in, we have cake

I've unicorn horns for sale of anyone is interested ..

I just spat cake everywhere laughing