Is 'No Contact' abuse?

Smileless

Pantglas asked Bibbity how they would feel if a child went no contact with or without explanation.

I wasn't asked but I did sit with my cup of tea and think about it, I also thought about it with regards to the other issues that had been mentioned on the other topic we have all been chatting on lately.

My comment was purely to do with my thoughts on it and absolutely not related to you personally at all

That's fair enough Starblaze I wasn't sure if I was interpreting your post correctly which was why I said so.

Thanks for the clarification.

Bibbity:

You can feel however you want.
He doesn’t have to care. He doesn’t have to align himself with that.
And you feeling abused does not make him an abuser.

You should have added, "As the parent of a minor child he has the absolute right to reevaluate the relationship of any person regardless of a previous 'agreement'."

For me the measure has always been, if you take the parent/child relationship out and substitute an 'adult partner' would the "offense" be considered abuse?

If a SO wrote me a letter saying they would never leave me and would love me forever and they don't? Can I force them to continue that relationship and if they don't, can I then call them "abusive" even if their only 'abuse' was walking away?

I find it interesting that noone appears to be acknowledging the specific non-explanation as a recognised tool of emotional abuse, as opposed to the right of someone to estrange /make decisions about their child. The behaviour as potential abuse is separate from the decision to estrange!

Madgran -- Do you mean for those who have estranged just "walking away" without an "explanation"?

I absolutely recognise that "those who have estranged just "walking away" without an "explanation"?" is a definite need in some cases. It is likely that there have been many variations on "explanations" over time, prior to estrangement, whoever is making that decision.

I am referring specifically to the scenario discussed up thread.

Madgran. I have never seen "estranging with no explanation" listed by any mental health organisation or by any qualified professional, as "abuse"

So I didn't feel able to answer.

I guess it also doesn't make sense to me for abusers to walk away from their victims...

Do you have a source?

Of course you can't force someone to continue with a relationship HolyHannah but yes, if you view their walking away and taking your GC away too, as abusive you can call them abusive.

Who says you can't?

IMO where an AC estranges their parent, substituting the parent/child relationship with 'adult partner' makes no sense. The relationship as an adult you have with your parents, good or bad, is nothing like the relationship you have with an adult partner, good or bad.

I find it interesting that noone appears to be acknowledging the specific non-explanation as a recognised tool of emotional abuse, as opposed to the right of someone to estrange /make decisions about their child

Madgran, you asked:

Of course, as has been pointed out many many times, many EPs "dont hear" the reasons given etc so please can we not tell her that all over again! I imagine she could do without it

Which I think posters respected, I certainly did. Your most recent post seems to be provoking posters to get into exactly what you asked them not to!

I am not aware of non-explanation as a recognised tool of emotional abuse. To me, that would fall under the silent treatment.

Starblaze -- The explanation I gave was, "For my own mental health, which we all know has be 'not well' for years, I am moving on with my life. Please do not contact me further."

My Doctor told me anything else would be unproductive to my recovery.

Any explanation is better than no explanation. Our ES for example could have said that for the sake of his marriage and family he could no longer be in a relationship with us.

Is silent treatment a recognised tool of emotional abuse? If so, if non-explanation fell within that category, it too would be viewed as emotional abuse.

That said what ever language is used, our son's estrangement of us caused both physical and emotional damage. It was and remains for us abuse.

Holyhannah I gave a proper explanation, it wasn't accepted. It was a bit heartbreaking because I'd had a lot of "we don't know what we did wrong" contacts in various forms and I was still daft enough to think maybe they would actually "see and understand" given being in an estrangement situation.

Apparently my explanation and reasons were nonsense.

Now we are back to "we don't know what we did wrong"

It was cathartic typing it out, it was just sending it that was the mistake.

It's wrong to discount someone's explanation and/or reasons as nonsense, simply because you disagree with them.

Starblaze -- That was the point of my exercise with the PM Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers. Write the stuff all down and get 'it' out. Never give it to them. It's a red flag to a raging bull and they will either use what you say against you or deny it all OR go pathetic, "Look at how much you are hurting MEEEE!!!!"

Any thought/care about Us or our pain? No. Why would they start in that moment?

Non-abusers 'flip a switch' and automatically become abusers by estranging so I guess it stands to reason that abusers will similarly 'flip a switch' and become "not abusive" when informed their behavior is hurtful and abusive.

That's sarcasm and is dysfunctional 'logic' -- for the record.

People who call abortion murder are wrong. It’s not an opinion because murder is a legal definition.
Abuse also has a Definition.
Silent treatment is an abuse tactic. However silent treatment is used within a relationship. Being cut off is not silent treatment

Not just narcissistic mothers HolyHannah that goes for all narcissists especially going pathetic and "Look at how much you are hurting MEEEE!!!!" well said.

Smileless -- My reference to ""Look at how much you are hurting MEEEE!!!!" is what a Narc says when confronted with allegations of what THEY have done to hurt their victim. In other words it's DARVO.

Child says, "You are hurting Me and if you don't stop I am going to leave." Parent continues bad behavior. Child leaves. Narc parent cries, "Look how much they hurt MEEE by walking away!!!!"

Yes I know that HolyHannah because it happens between adults, when one of them is narcissistic. I was fortunate not to have encountered narcissistic behaviour as a child but I've encountered it as an adult so am well aware of what DARVO stands for.

Smileless -- Clearly you know what DARVO stands for. Now do you recognize it when you see someone doing it?

If you want to accuse me 'doing DARVO' then do so directly HolyHannah and explain where.

Only just come to this thread and am appalled to see people judging other people! How can you possibly know all the details from reading a post. Please stop.

Ironflower "If your child tells you that another child is mean to you, you tell them to stay away from them, its the same. If they cause you harm (physical / emotional) you can choose to stay away" that is one way to deal with it but there are others which can save a relationship. You can for example teach your child to give kindness in return.

As so many have said, it is not clear cut, it is different in different cases

Madgran. I have never seen "estranging with no explanation" listed by any mental health organisation or by any qualified professional, as "abuse"

Starblaze I didn't say !"estranging with no explanation*. I was talking about lack of explanation (for specific action; for "moving the goalposts"; for any contradiction etc) is a "recognised tool of emotional abuse"

My point was that in the scenario described it is possible for the action of estrangement not to be abuse, a point made by several posters, but the lack of explanation as to why a given promise had changed, potentially could be.

Oh well then we are back to whether adult relationships breaking down means it's wrong to keep the grandchildren away and we already have a different thread for that.

Sometimes you have to use the familial tools of the family you were born into to emancipate yourself from them: you can use a hammer to drive in a nail or remove one- How you use the tool is up to you-

Mother of dragons "Which I think posters respected, I certainly did. Your most recent post seems to be provoking posters to get into exactly what you asked them not to!

I have no idea why you think my comment about "lack of explanation" is connected to not commenting to Smileless on the specifics of EPs not hearing explanations!! Thankyou for respecting my request though, regarding not saying that to Smileless who I have seen it said to many times.

I think I have confused things by speaking generally on an issue, in a discussion on the specifics of one person's estrangement as described by them. That was not my intention.

"lack of explanation" ..in the type of situations I was referring to it is not the same as silent treatment; again I don't think I gave enough explanation. So I am referring to specifically doing something that is the opposite of what one has said one will do, without explanation. The Mental Health Foundation refers to it as "actions not matching words" which is a clearer description I think. I have been looking for the reference to "lack of explanation" description regarding an emotional abuse tool, but at the moment I can't find it.