Daughter’s birthday, should I send her a birthday card ?

Pantglas

As far as we’re concerned the estrangement is the conclusion. It has resolved everything.

I will never ever reconcile with my MIL. My husband to date unlikely to.
If he did that’s up to him. If he wanted her to be around the kids then that’s something me and him would have to have out.

I’m not full of hate. Just state facts. I only ever really discuss it here.
Now and again a friend or relative will ask if she’s been in touch but I could count on one hand the amount of time that’s happened this year.

Course they do GG! I’m thrilled to share ongoing efforts (on all all sides) for a happy ending with all who are ploughing through the mire of estrangement and why wouldn’t anyone with a good heart do that?

Pantglas2

I think Starblaze that those who show negativity towards reconciliation would be happy to own it - why not, because they can’t justify it, can they?

Their reasons for estrangement disappear when reconciliation happens without their 1-2-3 or 100 step approach to making amends!

Some of us kept it simple all along, however long it took... which is why the haters hate!

You say you “kept it simple all along, no matter how long it took” but wasn’t it your daughter who reached out to you?

It’s a bit of a risky strategy.

There was always the chance that your daughter wouldn’t reach out to you. I’m not sure it is a chance I would be willing to take.

I would also disagree that a person’s reasons for estrangement disappear when reconciliation happens. Just because it isn’t being discussed, doesn’t mean the reasons have disappeared. It is just rug sweeping the issues.

Pantglas2

Course they do GG! I’m thrilled to share ongoing efforts (on all all sides) for a happy ending with all who are ploughing through the mire of estrangement and why wouldn’t anyone with a good heart do that?

I think those posters aren’t particularly interested in conversing with you and some other posters given their past and current experiences of those interactions, it seems.

I mean, I don’t read this board often but even I can see it clear as day!

GG65 -- "I would also disagree that a person’s reasons for estrangement disappear when reconciliation happens. Just because it isn’t being discussed, doesn’t mean the reasons have disappeared. It is just rug sweeping the issues." -- I agree.

If I were to 'reconcile' with my 'mom' I wouldn't bother to speak of what the issues were. It's pointless, because to her? They don't exist. That's why I am not willing to try to 'fix' the situation, not because she won't deal with 'the past' but because she wants the "old Me" back and I am not her victim anymore. I refuse to rug-sweep so it's called and 'impasse'.

My DD eventually reached out to me (after many attempts at reconciliation on my part) is the important part in this estrangement tale GG.

It is also her decision to not address her decision to estrange so many moons ago and I respect that. She was in a difficult place regarding her marriage and our space and she’s now found her ‘happy’ place with all of us!

We happily move on with good hearts ?

Pantglas2

My DD eventually reached out to me (after many attempts at reconciliation on my part) is the important part in this estrangement tale GG.

It is also her decision to not address her decision to estrange so many moons ago and I respect that. She was in a difficult place regarding her marriage and our space and she’s now found her ‘happy’ place with all of us!

We happily move on with good hearts ?

I wish you and your daughter all the best going forwards Pantglas2.

So, to clarify Pantglas I hate you, because you are reconsiled without doing any work to improve yourself as a parent, despite the fact I have no idea why your daughter needed a break from you which has nothing at all to do with my relationship or how horribly my mum treated me because you have apparently made the assumption that it can't have been that bad?

Sure, fine, makes total sense.

I don't think very highly of you after talking to you but I'm not going to waste any hate on you, you are just words on a screen

Thank you GG for your kind thoughts on on or reconciliation.

Starblaze I truly wish a settled place for you and yours - it’s taken me and mine a long lard road to get to any semblance of happiness. Please don’t be be bitter at anyone’s struggle to a good place x

Pantglas

If that's what you think, I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise

I do genuinely hope you and your daughter have a long and happy relationship.

I didn’t read it as bitterness on others struggles to a good place , more she read your comments as saying she should get over her “steps to reconciliation”

That's a lovely post Pantglas "We happily move on with good hearts".

It must be difficult if someone doesn't want to talk about the reasons for estrangement, especially if the other person/people would prefer too as part of the reconciliation process.

That said, would anyone risk derailing that reconciliation by pressing the point? Moving forward with what you have is the only option together with perhaps hope that at some time in the future, everyone feels secure enough and safe enough to have that discussion.

As time passes it maybe that the person who wanted to 'get everything out in the open' no longer feels that way. They have that once estranged person that they love back in their lives and in the end, that's all that really matters.

All cases of estrangement are different.

Reconciliation may be right for some but I can absolutely see why Starblaze and HolyHannah have no desire to even vaguely think about reconciliation, based on their perspective of their childhoods.

For others the reasons for estrangement may be different and they may get to a point where they feel able to have a relationship again

Surely both scenarios are appropriate to the individuals concerned.

Summerlove

I didn’t read it as bitterness on others struggles to a good place , more she read your comments as saying she should get over her “steps to reconciliation”

Yes I don't think what I have asked for is unfair and it is what was recommended to me, based on my situation, from a trained counsellor.

If pantsglas has resolved her situation, that's wonderful but has no baring on mine and I don't think much of the responses to me.

If I were to simply go back to my mum, my situation wouldn't even be the same as before, it would be worse. I hope I wouldn't need to go into why, she is abusive. She cannot stop being abusive without help. She didn't stop all the times I told her that her behaviour was damaging our relationship, she just got worse.

So, I haven't fully slammed the door because I truly believe that the right help could fix my mums issues, I'm not willing to accept any less though.

Surely both scenarios are appropriate to the individuals concerned absolutely. An AC who has been hurt by their parent is understandably unlikely to want to reconcile, and if they do may be too scared to do so in case previous behaviours are repeated.

It's the same for some EP's; the fear that they will once again be estranged.

Going back to the title of this thread 'Daughter's birthday, should I send her a birthday card?', only the sender knows their true motivation.

A card can be a way of telling the person that you're estranged from that you miss them, love them and thinking about them. It can be a way of saying 'my door remains open' or it can be a precursor to looking to reconciliation.

It can be received in the spirit with which it was sent, or it can be a most unwelcome intrusion on the life that has been re built following the estrangement.

I posted earlier about an email I received from our ES after more than 7 years of silence, in which he expressed his condolences for the death of my mum.

Was it anticipated? no. When I saw there was a message, did I feel excited anticipation? no. Did I have a sense of discomfort and dread? yes. Would I have preferred not to have been contacted? yes and no.

Yes, because it's taken years for us to get to where we are. Yes, because I have no idea what it means. Does it simply mean he wanted to express his sadness at the death of my mum, his GM, or does it mean more? I believe it was the former.

No, because I know how hard it was for him to send it; I know how hard it would have been for me to do the same. No, because it showed me that I'm not totally forgotten and no, because his last message was full of anger and bitterness. So, if this is the last time I ever hear from him it's a positive experience and I hope my reply was a positive experience for him too.

So, I haven't fully slammed the door because I truly believe that the right help could fix my mums issues, I'm not willing to accept any less though

Apologies Starblaze , my previous comment assumed that you would not countenance reconciliation. That was an incorrect assumption on my part.

GG65Thank you for that insight . I never thought of my son’s behavior as a coping mechanism to the abuse. That does make sense.
I was young when I got divorced and my son was eight. Why I thought the abuse would stop if I did that was silly of me as it continued when my X had the children. If I went to the courts I would not have had proof that he was being abused.
He didn’t have bruises so I couldn’t prove anything. His dad would shove him against a wall and put his hand around my sons throat . He didn’t actually choke him so there wasn’t any visible proof.
I could cry just thinking that I had no way to protect him when we weren’t together.
What’s even weird is that my son never remembered all this happening yet my DD remembers it well. Probably trauma.

My son had estranged himself once before and then one day I got this beautiful letter that it had nothing to do with me but the estrangement was about him and his life. And then two years later he does it again as I have previously talked about. I understand why after reconciliation we would all be scared and would need to take it one day at a time. Many of you had great suggestions as to how to do that. But you can’t go back to the place that caused the estrangement. IMO if you don’t talk about your feelings as to why the estrangement happened you can’t move on with everyone exhibiting the same behaviors. As a mother I would do anything , counseling , whatever it takes to see my child. But I am a person who is seeking counseling and am constantly looking in the mirror to improve myself. I wish more parents and adults children would too.

I simply can't imagine what this has been like for you Rhinestone. Your son estranges, reconciles and then estranges again.

Rhinestone really sorry you had to go through all that. My mum tried very hard to turn me against my Dad and almost succeeded at times. Even just to make my life easier so she would stop giving me hell. He had court awarded access thankfully. I am a very stubborn person so, that served me well there.

Everything else you said... Yes, counselling is amazing and personal growth is always to be commended

Our ES tried very hard to turn his brother against us; the lengths that some people are prepared to go too and the depths they are prepared to sink.

In your position, I'd send a card. It's worth one more try to get in contact with her.

I hope she responds favourably.

Rhinestone What a difficult time you have had. Wise words from you too that I hope will help/resonate for other EPs

Rhinestone *Starblaze started a new thread recently called "Recognising how far you have come" which I think you might find helpful and interesting