Your money or your grandsons

You haven't "simply (said) that she's interpreted what was said as meaning hell" OceanMama. You posted today at 12.12 "This detail does come across as trying to garner sympathy by creating a situation that couldn't have happened".

If you tell someone they are maybe "trying to garner sympathy by creating a situation that couldn't have happened", when they have said it did happen, you are saying that they are lying.

Smileless2012

No it isn't the truth in JGran's case MrsWarren and that is why it bothers me so much. She has now posted that those are the exact words her d.i.l. used.

I'm sick and tired of EP's and EGP's posts about their personal experiences of estrangement being questioned to the extent that they are portrayed as liars.

You have often said that EAC judge all EP’s by their own experiences. But I feel this is exactly what you are doing here.

I didn’t question JGran’s personal experience of estrangement.

I questioned what her DIL said to her because a Jehova’s witness does not believe in hell and wouldn’t tell anyone they are going to hell because to them it doesn’t exist.

So, if I see something that is glaringly inconsistent, or doesn’t make sense, should I say nothing?

What was again the big fight that changed everything? That piece of info is key

No it isn't the truth in JGran's case MrsWarren and that is why it bothers me so much. She has now posted that those are the exact words her d.i.l. used.

I'm sick and tired of EP's and EGP's posts about their personal experiences of estrangement being questioned to the extent that they are portrayed as liars.

Smileless2012

Unless you know all JW's OceanMama I cannot see how you can possibly know that what JGran has described could not have have happened.

Whether intentional or not, you are calling her a liar.

No I'm not, I'm simply saying that she's interpreted what was said as meaning hell. Or her DIL used 'hell' as she knew it, not as OP knew it.

I'm the last person to always say the EP is wrong. I have stated in many past posts that the AC is just as capable as a parent of being the one in the wrong, or that there is a contribution on both sides. I never make assumptions about who is at fault.

JGran

MrsWarren and OceanMama: I'm not sure why her religious beliefs are your focus and honestly what they do or don't believe as a group is not important to me. I can only say that it is what she and her friends have stated and what little I've been told in the past over the dinner table with them. As to what the larger group believes or follows...no idea and not really very important to the issue. As to me making it up??? Really??? Why??? I'm sorry if this is your religion and their statements don't make sense to you as they are not following what you know, I can only state what was stated. As to its validity, that would be a discussion you could have with her and her friends. I really know almost nothing about the religion and have stayed as far away from the topic as possible. I just make sure to stay away from topics that I know are taboo like birthdays and Christmas.

JGran, I think the reason it got picked up is because it's such a fundamental teaching and difference of the JWs that it really stands out and made me raise my eyebrows. I believe they have a study book that clearly explains what they believe around 'hell' if you're curious. Anyway, probably best to move on as I did in my previous post. :-) I am sure she said something to you along the lines of you're heading the wrong way.

JGran thank you for the clarification.

Smileless2012

How on earth do you know that that never happened MrsWarren? It's perfectly reasonable that a JW would tell a Catholic they wanted to hurt and upset that they'll go to hell, because they know a Catholic does believe there's a hell.

For goodness sake stop being so judgemental, claiming you know something that you couldn't possibly know so implying that everything JGran is telling us hasn't actually happened.

Why is it so unpalatable for some to accept that there are some really nasty AC out there, when clearly there are?

Thank you OceanMama as you say, JGran could have interpreted 'eternal destruction' as 'hell'. Either way, a very nasty thing to say.

Pointing out that Jehova’s witnesses don’t believe in hell and therefore wouldn’t have used these words isn’t nasty, it’s the truth.

I haven’t insinuated anything beyond that.

Sorry, but I don’t know why this has bothered you so much.

Unless you know all JW's OceanMama I cannot see how you can possibly know that what JGran has described could not have have happened.

Whether intentional or not, you are calling her a liar.

Oh, and no interpretation. Her exact words several times: "You are going to Hell!" As to her beliefs?? As I said...I really don't know much about what they do or don't believe.

Smileless, I can see how someone being told they are heading for eternal destruction (if those are the words used) or eternal death (again, if those were the words used) could be interpreted as 'you are going to hell' by someone who understood that concept better. It's really just a terminology issue based on what terms are understood in what belief systems. Based on what i have experienced, a JW would feel it was the right thing to warn someone that they are on that path. So yes, OP might feel she was told she was going to hell, but how most of us would interpret that, that scenario could not have happened with a JW. Most churches believe in evangelism and saving people do they not? In any case, that is a side issue. In the situation with the house, it doesn't sound like JGran is being at all unreasonable.

Did your son have a written contact with all benefits outlined JGran? As he's family you might not have felt the need, and maybe that is why you are where you are now with this. The bottom line is that you get to do whatever you want with your properties and assets.

Well here's an idea, why don't we accept that JGran may have misinterpreted what was said by her d.i.l. and her d.i.l.'s friends, rather than assume that she's making the whole thing up in order to garner sympathy.

I don't doubt for one moment that if it were her EA son who was posting here or his wife, they'd believed by the nay sayer's on here because for some it's always the EP/EGP who is at fault.

Can you imagine the shock, horror and outrage if a poster ever told an EAC they were making things up about their abusive childhoods to garner sympathy, or had misinterpreted how they were treated?

Honestly, some of the responses to EP's/EGP's on GN beggar belief.

MrsWarren and OceanMama: I'm not sure why her religious beliefs are your focus and honestly what they do or don't believe as a group is not important to me. I can only say that it is what she and her friends have stated and what little I've been told in the past over the dinner table with them. As to what the larger group believes or follows...no idea and not really very important to the issue. As to me making it up??? Really??? Why??? I'm sorry if this is your religion and their statements don't make sense to you as they are not following what you know, I can only state what was stated. As to its validity, that would be a discussion you could have with her and her friends. I really know almost nothing about the religion and have stayed as far away from the topic as possible. I just make sure to stay away from topics that I know are taboo like birthdays and Christmas.

How on earth do you know that that never happened MrsWarren? It's perfectly reasonable that a JW would tell a Catholic they wanted to hurt and upset that they'll go to hell, because they know a Catholic does believe there's a hell.

For goodness sake stop being so judgemental, claiming you know something that you couldn't possibly know so implying that everything JGran is telling us hasn't actually happened.

Why is it so unpalatable for some to accept that there are some really nasty AC out there, when clearly there are?

Thank you OceanMama as you say, JGran could have interpreted 'eternal destruction' as 'hell'. Either way, a very nasty thing to say.

Gosh.
I had some Grandchildren struggles recently in a completely different way . However, the best £90 i spent was on a solicitor in family law. Youd be surprised what you learn.
Also i write journals for my grandchildren for them to have at 16.
Hope it helps.
How sad you must feel x

MrsWarren is right. I do know a bit about the group and, while I do sympathise with your situation, this detail does come across as trying to garner sympathy by creating a situation that can't have happened. It's either made up or, more likely, you've misinterpreted what she said.

Tell him NO, tell him youve already bequeathed the house to your GS's for when theyre older.Then do so straightaway.Tell him if he continues this you will report him for blackmail.And then go see a lawyer for the will and to make application to see the GC. I wouldn't normally recommend the interference of a court to see GC, but in this case it may be the only way.

I also forgot to mention that I was also paying medical insurance ($1800/mo) and that ended with his employment, but I agreed to continue paying it for a few months until he found new employment and was covered by them. However, my son canceled it and it seems his wife thought that I did, but I said that I didn't and even couldn't make that chance except to just not pay the bill. She has had full medical coverage available to them for free through the Indian tribe her grandfather is a part of. It was just easier for them to have me pay for it so that they didn't have to change doctors.

As to Hell and JW's I know almost nothing about the group and all I can say is that was her statement many times to me in front of my grand children. She stated that they do believe in Hell now

No, I’m sorry, this is not true.

You said she spends most of her time going from door to door. She simply would not hold this belief.

JWS have always believed in Jesus. Not hell. I have heard JWs use the term 'eternal destruction' which you may have understood to mean 'hell', but it's not the same meaning.

I'm not going to help them as I know that it would only be seen as a further offence. I'm hoping to find a way back in, not push them further.

As to Hell and JW's I know almost nothing about the group and all I can say is that was her statement many times to me in front of my grand children. She stated that they do believe in Hell now and Jesus, they also don't normally marry outside of their group, but she has done so twice now.

I've never threatened to take the house away. My grandchildren need a safe home. However, I did state that a reduced rent would be fair. Normally, I could easily get $3500/mo for the house and while we never got to that discussion before I was cut off from communication with my son, my intention was to only charge $2000/mo More than fair from my perspective. I have property insurance and expenses to maintain that property which is in a beautiful are of Southern California.

She is Jehovah Witness and I am Catholic, so she and her friends have often told me I'm going to hell

Yeah, I’m having doubts now because this absolutely did not happen. Jehova’s witnesses don’t believe in hell so there is no way your DIL or her friends would have said this to you.

Smileless2012 Thank you! I realize that it is very difficult not to inject your own experiences into mine and given a short written scenario it is hard to understand the full picture. I extended the offer to answer any questions for that reason, but I'm very new to this forum and I'm still figuring out how to make sure I'm giving as much info as possible. Just know that they have lived rent free now for many years and for many of those years I also paid full utilities, bought them two new vehicles, expanded the house ($250 thousand reno) when they needed more space. I even gave her $1,000 a month to just have her own spending money until roughly two years ago. The only reason I stopped that is that she was just giving it to her religious group and from day one I told them that it was intended for the house and kids. My son was getting $5,000 per month and is very likely making less now as I was paying generously. No car payments, no insurance payments and no fuel costs even for the car as he always filled it on my card, so they were not hard done by. Still really are not now if they spent wisely.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in hell as most of Christianity teaches it, so a witness would not tell you that you are going to hell. They believe the dead simple cease to exist if not resurrected later.

So it seems that your son was given the house rent free as part of an employment package? Since he has ceased that employment, it is reasonable that the free rent would cease. From what you have described, any expectation that the house should be signed over to him is wrong on his part. Is it possible there has been some miscommunication or lack of clarity here? This is a very sad situation. Whatever you choose to do with your property is entirely your decision to make, assuming there were no verbal promises made that have been gone back on. I'm sorry you are going through this. I'm sure it breaks your heart.

That's exactly what I thought JGran even the most innocuous message can and will be used against you if that's the overall intention. "I hope to see you soon" is "pressuring them"; ridiculous.

Not being "allowed" to help your d.i.l's homeless blind sister or her mother who sounds as if her living conditions are appalling to say the least.

As you have been estranged, have you thought about helping them anyway?