SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

I think that some abuses are obvious so you know you have to make it better but some abuses aren't obvious and you just think you don't deserve love or kindness.
They are all abuse though and I think scars are the same if they are on the inside or on the outside.

That's true Armadillo. Everyone deserves unconditional love from their parents even if they never get it.

If you've had a parent who neglected you as a child, chances are they will neglect you as an adult. Stonewalling is not the behaviour of a normal healthy adult.

They might never change, but if you are willing to, you can live a fulfilling life without the need for their approval. Some things happen to us not because of us, but because the other person has issues. Abuse happens because an abuser exists, not because the victim is "bad". We can still live good, positive lives despite our backgrounds and choose not to pass that destructive pattern on or to engage in those destructive behaviours that we saw played out.

The last paragraph of your post speaks to us all OnwardandUpward whether we've been estranged or have estranged.

Sadly for us, our ES's wife has passed on the destructive patterns and chosen to engage in the destructive behaviour she experienced.

We can only hope that it ends with her and isn't passed onto our GC.

Im glad to hear it @Smileless2012 I wouldn't want to offend anyone.

I'm sorry to hear about your ES's wife. The choice parents have is to parent as they were parented or to try and do it differently. I think my mother tried to do it differently, but the harm was done to her and she passed a great deal on without probably realising. I think she really tried.

Relationships are so complex! I hope your DiL realises if she is following in the steps of her mother and gets some therapy so she does not continue the same pattern.

I think things will get better and there is a lot of information available so anyone with abusive people in their lives will learn to recognise them in time and make connections with people who are good and loving.

That's true Armadillo. These days with the internet, you can find all sorts of helpful information. Even if you were brought up to feel worthless, you can learn your true worth and find people who reflect that back to you and love you for who you are.

Perhaps your family will never change, but accepting them for who they are gives you peace. Then you can choose to be around people who make you feel worthy of love.

My dad and husband made sure they never treated their children how they where treated. Once my mom and dad got married his sibling and half siblings finally had birthday, Easter and Christmas presents. Because my mom and her family showed dad what real family where like. Once they had their own house he's brother was married. So they had his other siblings there to tea every Sunday. They used to give them lots of food to take home. Sandwiches,cakes, biscuits and chocolate. It wasn't until his step mom's funeral he found out they eat everything on the way home as they knew she would take it off them and eat it all herself.

My son and daughter in law I can't fault as parents my grandson's know they are loved have plenty of attention and well looked after. Where they have failed is as son and daughter in law.

Her mom's lives with them . Makes me wonder if she is in fear of putting a foot wrong in case she gets thrown out or she is loving the fact I am treated like a piece of old rubbish they have thrown away.

At least I am proud of being dependent on no one for the roof over my head or food on my plate. She can't have any pride she's 63 . Who lives off thier family. My mom lived with me because she couldn't look after herself anymore. She has no excuse.

I think my mum made me a wreck really. I don't know if I am a good parent to my boys and they will probably be the judge of that and I am sorry if I wasn't a good mum because I didn't know how much was wrong for a long time. How is it possible to know? I think as long as we loved them and didn't want to cause any pain then in the end it will be fine.

"I think as long as we loved them and didn't want to cause any pain then in the end it will be fine". If only it always worked out that way but sadly it doesn't.

On earth or in heaven my nan always said.

OnwardandupwardYou are absolutely correct about accepting the family as they are and it giving you peace. Don’t we all wish our EC would do that? And I wish our EC would see the difference between real abuse and what they THINK is abuse.

My DM is still in the hospital. My ES will be probably taken away by the court or police this next week for not leaving his fathers house when my X served him papers to evict.
I developed a pain on my side, went to the doctor and now have to have a D and C and if there is cancer there, then a hysterectomy.
I have been freaking out . Add to this that my ES has been texting me asking how my DM is and telling me horrible stuff about his dad. He has been looking to move but really there are hardly any places to rent, let alone any that will okay someone with no job and I’m sure, bad credit. I think he is using me to document stuff about his dad.
I don’t know what to think. He is losing one parent so by communicating with me does it make him feel better?

Rhinestone you need to concentrate on your health. I hope the result will be negative but if not having a hysterectomy isn't the end of t he world. I had a total hysterectomy at the age of 38. Took everything including my cervix. If you do have to have one have it done with a positive frame of mind I promise you it will help you cope with the operation and the healing process.

There is nothing you can do to help your son . Your mom is being looked after in hospital.

Time to look after yourself and put yourself first. It's not selfish. You have spent so much time and energy worrying about others . You need all your energy to look after yourself. And let those that love you look after you.

Don't think you son is communicating with you to make himself feel better but to make you feel guilty.

WhiffThank you. I just feel like I have been trying to take care of me by eating proper, exercising and losing weight. But the mental illness in my family always seems to interfere every time. I’m so frustrated. Moms bipolar is a very cruel and a horrible brain disorder. I have spent the last 45 years of my life saving her from herself. I’m exhausted,

My mom's dementia was very hard to deal and the violence was awful. But I only had to deal with it for months .
45 years is a life time I don't know how you managed . You must be a very brave and strong woman. I admire your commitment to your mom. You must love her very much.

But now is your time. Time to look after yourself and let others look after you. Time to put yourself first for once. ?

I've just realised I am becoming obsessed. I have an email about local daily news. Everytime there is a mentioned of anything to do with a child I have to read it to find out what area the child is in . Did it this morning a young child was hit by a car. No where near to where my son and family live . Why I didn't realise I was doing it I don't know ?. Normally I am level headed and logical. And know my son and daughter in law would never let anything happen to my grandson's.

Am I the only one who has done this?

Sending you (((hugs))) and Rhinestone. Try not to worry. As Whiff's posted a hysterectomy isn't the end of the world, I had a total one at 34 and have never looked back.

I'm so sorry that in addition to this, and your mum's ongoing problems you're getting these texts from your son. I think that Whiff is right, he's trying to make you feel guilty. I understand that he has mental health issues and can't begin to imagine how hard this must be for you, but there's nothing you can do to help him.

He needs to help himself, to see that his current situation is down to his behaviour and is neither your fault or your responsibility.

It's great that you are doing what you can to take care of yourself. Your mum is on the best place to be cared for. No child could have done more for their mum Rhinestone.

No, you're not obsessed Whiff[smile}you're a loving GM despite being denied you GC. You can't switch that off and you wouldn't want too even if you could.

Whiff*Smileless *Thank you for your words of support. It helps.
My ES did say in one of his texts that he u DWTS told why I divorced his dad after living with him. I don’t think he’s trying to make me feel guilty but I do feel he’s putting stuff in writing about his dad for evidence that something is wrong with him.
He claims his dad is at the beginning of dementia. For some reason he is trying to make himself valuable to his dad by fixing things at his hone. My X thinks he’s trying to steal his money which I don’t get. My ES has never been a person that cared about materialistic things ever.

The messed up word is supposed to be “ understood why “ I divorced his dad

does seem odd though that he's "trying to make himself valuable" to someone he's so critical of. Could it be because he's hoping his dad wont go through with the eviction, or if he does, take him back in again?

Could his claims that his dad's at the beginning of dementia be to discredit what his dad says about him?

Don't try and guess why people do things as it's easy to get influenced in all directions by different feelings. Wait and hear it for yourself. I did with my mum and now I know how she really feels about things.

Everyone's different of course but personally I think it's good to ask questions and consider what the answer(s) might be, especially if the person concerned is not in contact at all or what contact there is, is sporadic and their reasoning is flawed/questionable.

I didn't mean you I meant about him not being materialistic. Just because he is estranged doesn't mean his mum doesn't know him better than most do.

SmilelessYes I think you are spot about my ES wanting to discredit my X. Honestly, I don’t know what or who to believe. My ES tells me one thing and his dad tells me another. For some reason he is afraid to leave despite his hatred for his father. My X told my DD that he wasn’t the best father or grandfather yet he chooses not to change
anything. He told my DD that my ES unplugged all his televisions. So if my son has mental issues like paranoia and maybe unplugged them, why is he evicting a person with issues? Because of Covid the courts are backed up so I don’t know when they will deal with the eviction case.
At least I knew my ES was safe being at his dads.
Mom is still in the hospital and I’m so frustrated because the person who will schedule my procedure was not in the office Friday or today. How long do people have to suffer before we can get medical attention?The states healthcare is awful and expensive but that’s another topic.

I can understand you finding it difficult if not impossible to believe what your ex says Rhinestone. Maybe he just can't deal with your son's erratic behaviour, maybe it frightens him.

You have so much to contend with, I don't know how you manage to just get through the day.

I hope that there is some comfort for you having your mum in hospital where she is safe and being cared for and that you'll get to know very soon when your procedure is due to take place.

I'm sending you my love, (((hugs))) and . I wish I could do more and hope that by talking to us here it can in some small way help you.