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I am new here, I'd appreciate some honesty but it may take a long post to explain.
My late dh was abused by his parents his father died and his mother was an awful trouble maker. He prioritised her over our family because he felt that his mother would leave him more of her estate than his sister. This was his life and he was at his mother's house at every opportunity me and our children came very far down his list of priorities.
His mother was so horrid I soon couldn't bring myself to visit her and our children very rarely visited her. I never spoke to her for over 30 years and when she died she left her estate 50/50 between my DH and his sister.
During the time bringing up our DC my parents died quite young within a few years of eachother. My brother was quite young at the time and it hit him bad. We got 50/50 of their estate and my young brother bought a house but also squandered quite a bit. He has mental health problems.
My DH over the years was very nasty about my brother and although it upset me I ignored it. When my brother visited with his wife my DH was brilliant with his children and lovely to his wife but rude and surly to my brother. He would do this if he went to my brother's house too. I ignored it nobody mentioned it, it was just accepted.
My husband was very close with my DD and he would often warn her about my brother as she was growing up telling her how he was interested in stealing our money and getting his hands on our house. He would tell her I couldn't be trusted not to give everything to my brother and eventually she knew more of our finances than I did. The two of them had secrets about our money and she grew very resentful of my brother. She also used to report anything she thought I'd done wrong to my husband and we would argue. She spent most of her teens and adulthood speaking very rudely to me. Again I just ignored it.
My DH had an idea that we would use the money from my parents estate to buy a house that my dd and ds could live in together. My dd was made aware of this and my ds wasn't.
When my ds was in his very early 20s he met his future wife. She was very nice and you could tell it was going to be a serious relationship. From the beginning my dd said things about this girl that I knew were not true, they were very nasty and unkind and I wasn't sure they were even true. My DH believed it all and was surly and rude to the girl when she came to visit. My DH and dd would say my ds had been disloyal and was choosing his new gf over his family. They would say my son's gf had it in for my dd and my dh became over concerned about what would happen to our house and money if we died and ds had a gf. They decided ds couldn't be trusted. I ignored everything, sometimes I'd stick up for my son and his gf because they really did nothing wrong but I'd be shouted down.
After about two years of this my dh and dd decided between them to give all of the money we kept from my parents estate to dd to buy a three bedroom house. She had just met a new man and they were planning to marry. He had a good job that paid well so it seemed like a good idea. My dh said we only had enough money to help one child and could make it up later. I agreed.
Shortly after my ds and his gf announced they were expecting a baby. When my gc was born my son and his gf came to live with us as they couldn't afford to rent privately any more. I got to spend so much precious time with the new baby and my son and his gf were no problem at all. My dh wasn't happy he said terrible things about my son's gf and made nasty comments about their parenting. My dh and dd raised concerns that my son and his gf would get their hands on the deeds to the house and that they would refuse to move out. I ignored this and because my ds and his gf never mentioned it, it wasn't an issue.
When they did move out after 11 weeks my DH cleared everything of my ds out if the house and made sure nothing of his remained. My dd's bedroom has looked the same since she was a teen and still does now.
My dd married then after a year split with her husband. He did very well and walked away with the house so we helped my dd into another house, this time a 2 bed.
When my son announced his wedding my dh said "Don't do it" instead of congratulations. He didn't say one word to the bride and groom the whole day and my dd disappeared somewhere for hours leaving us worried about her. I didn't feel comfortable to display photographs of the wedding because I knew my DH wouldn't like it. Dh also was devastated when they announced the pregnancy of the second child shortly after the wedding. DH always complained about Dil and how she parented GC. I had no problem with it they are very well behaved children and a pleasure to have around.
Dd went on to have a child with a new partner but the relationship failed and I took on full time care if the child while dd was at work. This left me with far less time to see ds and his family. He and dd had not spoken properly since we helped dd into her first house. I think he was slightly jealous because he had lots of housing issues. When DH went to hospital and knew he would die, he worried dd ex would get her house so he gave her money to help buy another house and also he worried about ds and Dil as he thought they would try to take my house and money so he asked dd to move in with me.
When DH passed away me and dd became very close we live between both of our houses. DH will named me and our two DC as executors and me as sole beneficiary. Dd sorted everything she was very good she also took charge of my house and finances throwing things out and making decisions. She didn't want to involve ds due to concerns she and my DH had over their potential behaviour where our house and money was concerned. I went along with it.
I saw my ds once a week for a couple of hours but I was exhausted
One day my ds and Dil sat me down and told me what I already knew had gone on through out the years. I didn't know what to say so I denied it. My Dil said some not very nice things about my ds and my dh and my son mentioned issues around the house and money it made me think DH and dd had been right all along. I defended my DD and I made excuses because I wanted to keep the peace.
I haven't seen them since and I miss them terribly. My DD says she is sad because she had a brother and doesn't anymore although she believes this was Dil plan all along. I agree to her face but I'm not sure I'm confused, hurt and I just don't know what to do. I haven't told any of my friends or my brother that this has gone on over the years I pretend it's all ok.
Sorry for long post
I don’t agree GG65. All enablers are coerced into whatever they’re allowing to happen. I can’t imagine anyone would choose to enable. It wouldn’t be called enabling then, they would be in partnership! I would think they find themselves in that position unconsciously.
I agree Disco
But it is only your opinion that the OP is being coercively controlled. It is not a fact
Of course it is, based on the information that she has given us. Just as it is other's opinion that she is an enabler based on the information she has given.
And some have the view that being coercively controlled creates the enabling!
One does not cancel out the other, as has been pointed out by myself and others in a variety of ways.
I’m sorry but trying to make sense of that OP is very difficult. I couldn’t get over your constant “I ignored it/him/her”. You have just allowed all this to happen instead of taking back some kind of control. I could never allow myself to be railroaded by my family just to keep the peace. It never works.
It's already been posted that coercive control isn't an excuse Hithere, it's a piece of the puzzle.
Judging by some of the responses on this thread, it's not difficult to imagine that if the OP has shared with others what she's shared here, that she wont have had some of the feed back on this thread.
There are posters who are clearly unwilling or unable to understand the impact that living with an abusive coercive partner can and does have, especially over a prolonged period of time.
Broken! Ate an n
Coercive control, enabler, etc...
It is hard to believe that OP has not received similar feedback if she has shared these same details with other people.
As adults, it is our responsibility to fix what is broke in us, coercive control is not an excuse
I don’t agree GG65. All enablers are coerced into whatever they’re allowing to happen. I can’t imagine anyone would choose to enable. It wouldn’t be called enabling then, they would be in partnership! I would think they find themselves in that position unconsciously. No one would ever do anything bad again, because there’d be no one letting them get away with it. So, OP is either an enabler or a willing participant. This is true. Either way, if she doesn’t talk in depth to her son, he would be justified, in my opinion, to walk away with his little family. This horrible cycle needs to be snapped. The daughter is the next obvious problem as she passes this nastiness down to her children.
Madgran77
No one is excusing, no one is ignoring the consequences for the son. Explaining/finding a reason/knowing how this warps perception is NOT excusing!
But it is only your opinion that the OP is being coercively controlled. It is not a fact.
Equally, she may just be an enabler. There are plenty of them! Enablers don’t need to be coerced into allowing all sorts of horrific abuses to take place.
Either way, I’m sure it makes no difference to her son, who probably doesn’t see his mum as a victim and shouldn’t have to either, after all he has been through.
The OP may have found some of responses disappointing Gill but I hope will have found some helpful and understanding. Hopefully she'll disregard the ones that are just plain nasty.
No one is excusing, no one is ignoring the consequences for the son. Explaining/finding a reason/knowing how this warps perception is NOT excusing!
FWIW, my DH always said that he didn't know how 'normal' families behaved and how good a father could be until he met mine. So I do have some insight into why your son isn't talking to you.
Well, if the OP came on here looking for a hand hold and sympathy she must be disappointed! Maybe others on here are better than me, but all I feel is anger for this woman's son, irritation at the 'poor me' and the complete lack of self awareness shown by the poster. Do you have any friends other than your daughter? Anyone in your life that hasn't been introduced by her? Others are obviously making excuses having more sympathy for you than I am, and I hold my hands up, but you recognised abuse well enough to keep away from your parents in law, so how come you don't recognise it within your own family, facilitated by yourself?
One thing that comes across as loud and clear is that when things getting difficult you have chosen to leave things and let whoever you are talking to do what they want. You have chosen to hand over your finances to others and it does seem as if your son has got to grips with it and understands the implications. The thing about having money is that you spend you time frightened that someone else is going to take it away from you. It seemed to be a thing at one time that DD and DS would live together - this would have been great as the finances would have stayed in the family. Since then there have been others involved but the main worry has been they are after your capital. I dont know where you go from here but I would certainly have a look at your finances and go to a solicitor to explain to you just what is going on. You may need to even things up so that your son is not missing out.
Yeah that's what I read is scapegoating, when some family members abuse you, other family members go along with it too.
It doesn't say on purpose it just says in a family its easier to side with the stronger ones and let someone else have a target on their backs.
Like things that were said about me and my husband that weren't true that people believed. It was very confusing like being put in prison with no proof because you got the blame for someone else and not knowing why people don't talk to you.
They do believe me now but because of that time we don't have much co tact as the trust goes doesn't. Never listen to rumours I think.
Smileless: There's no question that the OP has colluded in the abuse of her son but has done so as a victim, unable to see that she herself has been abused and what she still sees as 'normal' is far from normal and certainly unacceptable. Being able to see this isn't excusing the OP, making excuses for her or justification. It's looking at the whole picture and not just one piece.
Exactly Smileless
It's more than scapegoating though, this is also about the cycle of abuse which includes coercive control. The OP's H had an abusive childhood. I would say he emotionally and financially abused the OP. When their D was old enough, she became an active participant in her mother's emotional and financial abuse.
The OP's D appears to have taken on this controlling role following the death of her father and in addition may also be financially abusing her.
There's no question that the OP has colluded in the abuse of her son but has done so as a victim, unable to see that she herself has been abused and what she still sees as 'normal' is far from normal and certainly unacceptable.
Being able to see this isn't excusing the OP, making excuses for her or justification. It's looking at the whole picture and not just one piece.
Armadillo
I have read about this and its called scapegoating and it does a lot of damage. Your daughter and husband were bad people and you have took their side. This is what happened to me in my family and it will have broken your sons heart. He and his wife have done nothing wrong.
I hope you can see sense as he won't come back otherwise.
I agree with you, my DH has been the scapegoat, his sibling could do no wrong. No justification for this state of affairs at all, just excuses.
I have read about this and its called scapegoating and it does a lot of damage. Your daughter and husband were bad people and you have took their side. This is what happened to me in my family and it will have broken your sons heart. He and his wife have done nothing wrong.
I hope you can see sense as he won't come back otherwise.
I love the way you buy your daughter a house despite her husband being well off, but you refused to help your son despite the fact that he had 'housing issues'. I just can't get my head around the fact that he has been treated so shabbily, and now you are upset and can't see why he ignores you! Cause and effect I would think.
@GG65
But at the centre of this is a small boy (now a man) who has been thrown to the wolves and scapegoated his entire life.
@GG65 you have managed to put into words so much better off what I was trying to say.
I started off reading your original post and feeling terribly sorry for you and your son! YOU have been manipulated by your dh and dd for years and now your husband has passed away (sorry for your loss) the baton has passed from him to her.
You and your dd have been controlled since she was very young and your son got exiled by them when he met his future wife/gf and they realised they wouldn’t be able to control him anymore!
I find it very very strange that although you were all executors to the will only your dd sorted everything out?
Legally your son was entitled to be involved too?
Your son and daughter in law have FINALLY sat you down (now your husband has gone) and tried to help you and sadly you have become so conditioned to the lies you’ve been told over the years, even though your husband is gone, he is still controlling you!
I’m sorry for your son, I’m not surprised he and his wife have walked away. How hurt he must have been over the years by his father and sister - and then again by you for allowing it and then endorsing it and disregarding him when he finally had the courage to talk to you.
You need to recognise how controlled and mentally abused you have been before you can even begin to expect your son and his family to try again.
He has been let down by all of you over the years!
Smileless: Exactly Madgran, years of coercive control often result in a warped perception of what is normal and acceptable. TBH I haven't seen anyone excuse the OP for her role in this sad case, rather attempts to help her see that she needs help to acknowledge and understand the part she played. Only then will she be able to see and take responsibility for failing her son.
Exactly Smileless that is the whole point I have been trying to make.
No one is excusing, no one is ignoring the consequences for the son. Explaining/finding a reason/knowing how this warps perception is NOT excusing!
However some are trying very hard to help the OP to recognise what has happened to her in terms of coercive control, accept that has happened, accept what that means in terms of her perceptions and if she can do that start rethinking her role, her responsibilities etc which just might mean that she (who is asking for advice) might find a way through this. She is asking for advice, that is a key opening in someone who is in a coercive relationship!
I do wonder why some post on these threads when they appear to have nothing to offer but criticism. How exactly do you think your post will help the OP Gill
What a mess. I am surprised your DS and DiL have hung around for so long to be honest, you have stood by and allowed them to be excluded and treated very unfairly by your vile, greedy DH and equally vile DD. So, your DD has had 2 houses bought for her using your inheritance, and your DS is begrudged a few weeks staying with you while they save the deposit for a rental? Sorry, your passivity, your unwillingnes to rock the boat caused this. Go and see your DS, tell him what you have told GN, it sounds as if he is the only person in your immediate family who has behaved well, and if you are lucky he will start to see you again. The first sentence when you described your late husband only visiting his parents to make sure he got the bulk of the inheritance made my blood run cold. What a toxic family, I am not surprised your son is distancing himself.
Exactly Madgran years of coercive control often result in a warped perception of what is normal and acceptable.
TBH I haven't seen anyone excuse the OP for her role in this sad case, rather attempts to help her see that she needs help to acknowledge and understand the part she played.
Only then will she be able to see and take responsibility for failing her son.
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