Potential estrangement... DIL side

When it's your p's.i.l. I think it's more than wanting to be liked, there are the feelings of your husband or wife to take into account and their relationship with their parents.

Abi30, we've (nearly) all had to deal with some awkward, rude, even openly hostile characters, either at work or in the family.

The golden rule is to never allow them to upset you. Rather, you pity them - or laugh at them - with their miserable, negative vibes - and carry on regardless.

I'm always puzzled by these (regularly occurring) posts, where somebody is actually keen to be liked or accepted by such nasty characters - why?

Not sure how telling the OP that in her shoes you'd tell your H "to piss off" is at all helpful Bibbity. I don't understand why anyone would encourage this young woman to break up her marriage and their child's home.

Thanks for the update Abi. It's good that despite the difficult nature of this situation, at least you and your DH are able to talk about it openly.

I can understand you feeling in a 'no win' situation. When I took the decision not see my parents in law, my m.i.l. 'appeared' to be making a real effort with our relationship but like you are feeling now, I'd had enough and needed to stop having anything to do with her.

Mr. S. like your H tried to encourage me to reciprocate but I stood my ground, telling him that I didn't believe her motivation was genuine and as long as she saw him and our boys, I didn't think for one moment that she'd miss seeing me too.

It 'worked' for 7 years. Of course it wasn't always easy going. There were times when I resented the time he spent with his parents and/or when he took the boys with him, but I only ever discussed my resentment with close friends, never with him.

I hope that you stick with your decision and that with time, your H will see just as Mr. S. did that although it isn't ideal, it is workable and can avoid more drastic and damaging action such as estrangement or the break down of your marriage.

“He also believes that although his parents haven’t been great towards me, since I took a step back, I am also not helping matters with them wanting to make any effort with me now”.

This part of your update really sticks out to me as significant.

Your DH has grown up with their cold and abusive behaviour as his normal. He doesn’t kick up a fuss because he is scared and to an extent I do understand that. However the above statement implies you should just deal with it - get back in the ring and take the (metaphorical) blows for another few rounds, because that’s how he’s always dealt with it. Only you can decide if you want to be on the receiving end of their behaviour in the name of keeping the peace.

I went to counselling many years ago and the one thing my counsellor kept telling me was that I cannot change someone else’s behaviour. All I can do is change my reactions.

Personally I think that discussing past issues is generally unproductive. By bringing up sins of the past the other party is immediately on the defence and it rarely goes well. Your version of events vs theirs will be vastly different and both sides will be convinced of their own truth. Maybe sit with DH and come up with a game plan for future communication and visits, that’s if you intend to keep trying here (and I wouldn’t blame you if you don’t).

So things like if they name call, silent treatment or flip you off - ask them what the problem is. Same thing with the huffing etc, ask them dead to their faces what the issue is. Realistically, if they don’t like you they’ll either go nuts or realise you’re not willing to tolerate it any more.

I wish you all the luck in the world OP, as I said earlier it’s a tough situation. And this might sound a bit airy fairy, but practicing helped me to be more confident in pushing back, so my DH and I would do sort of role play exercises to practice and have the words available and comfortable to use in the event of any problems.

muffinthemoo

Don’t give him any help wording what he says to his parents. He has a lifetimes experience with them. You don’t. I am afraid sometimes you have to deal with your own folks in life, even if they are difficult. You are doing the right thing in standing aside. If this issue is important to him, he will make efforts to address it.

And if he fails to do so, OP will get the blame anyway. She'll have to be prepared that she can't win either way.

Don’t give him any help wording what he says to his parents. He has a lifetimes experience with them. You don’t. I am afraid sometimes you have to deal with your own folks in life, even if they are difficult. You are doing the right thing in standing aside. If this issue is important to him, he will make efforts to address it.

I’m sorry is he not happy that your not making any effort?!

That would be the moment I stop giving a damn about him being sad and tell him to piss off.

Just thought I’d type a small update. I had a long talk with my husband. I found it difficult to articulate certain things and ended up showing him this post. You were right, he did initially focus on the negative parts associated against him, but he did not deny the ‘bigger’ messages. It’s a rollercoaster of a journey for him too. It’s his parents and he loves them. He doesn’t feel that approaching them would do us any good because even if they did have an open mind, any instant change wouldn’t be perceived as genuine. He also doesn’t know how to approach them, speaking to him a bit more on it and he’s scared. He’s ultimately scared of loosing that relationship with them. Everything he’s feeling is completely normal. I also feel awful. This whole thing is hovering over us like a black cloud. I worry that his fear will mean that he won’t be able to articulate a strong front with them and how they will knock him down. He also believes that although his parents haven’t been great towards me, since I took a step back, I am also not helping matters with them wanting to make any effort with me now. There is no winning or pleasing.... we have left it to one side for the moment, where he is going to think about what to say sensitively to them (if he ever does). What would be the best way to word it for him? I am still not sure how we will come through this, but I’m hoping for a happy ending...

You’ve had loads of great advice, in your shoes I’d definitely be taking a massive step back and let DH be the organiser/social calendar manager with the IL’s.

Someone once put this to me when I was struggling with my IL’s and it gave me a bit of clarity. If these people, who come to your home, insult and make you uncomfortable were not related to you - would you ever see them again? Would you tolerate being spoken to like this by a work colleague? If the answer to both these questions is absolutely not (as it was for me) it may be time to weigh up whether it’s worth continuing to put yourself through this.

If an adult male cannot behave appropriately with his words to another adult and sees no issue in name calling/ insulting, then he has shown his true colours. Do you want this normalised for your own DC, for them to be around the emotional abuse your DH is now struggling to challenge? Again, if this wasn’t coming from a “family” member, I doubt he’d ever be around your DC again, so where’s the difference?

Ultimately it’s you and DH who need to come up with a plan - maybe ask him how he feels when his dad talks like that? And if he wants his own children to be afraid of speaking up the way he is?

I wish you all the best in negotiating this - it’s so hard, I let it go on for far too long and it became a horrible and toxic presence in my life, so I’d advocate for dealing with the situation sooner rather than later (based on how it effected me over the years).

The risk of showing him the thread is that the tone of some posts about him are unpleasant and this could have the effect of making him unable to "hear" the bigger messages. That might not be very helpful for you. Only you can decide.

Sounds good Abi. It may be good for him to see other opinions. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you all the best for your future.

Thank you, I am not sure how this situation is going to pan out. But I will keep referring back to this thread to remind myself of all the advice which I am thankful for. I need to be a bit more confident in my own self-worth - as you can imagine with postpartum anxiety and depression, it’s never been so low. Perhaps then I can be more confident in making a decision that’s right for me and or our family if it ever came to that.

I am also debating on wether or not to show my husband this thread. Everything I’ve written we’ve discussed over the years. So nothing new. It would just be good to know what his thoughts are, as he doesn’t voice them when it comes to his parents. Perhaps it would give us the dialogue he needs to open up on the subject...

You cannot possibly know that the OP's parents in law will be nasty to their GC Hithere that's an irresponsible thing to say.

I do think you need to take a step back Abi, leave the job of sending photo's and updates to your H and make sure that if he's taking the children to see his parents, he's always within ear shot.

He may not be able to challenge them directly if they speak to the children out of turn, but you may then make a joint decision for them not to see the children at all.

It's good that you regard estrangement as a last resort which IMO is as it should be. I didn't see my p's.i.l. for several years because of my m.i.l.'s treatment of me but our boys continued to see them with Mr. S.

We, me in particular, were worried that their GM would make inappropriate remarks but thankfully she never did and we now have a relationship I'd never have thought possible.

I sincerely hope that the situation improves because estrangement is very hard for all concerned, but if your H does decide that he can no longer have a relationship with his parents, it has to be his decision.

As far as you're concerned, Toadinthhole is absolutely right,
"Only you can decide though, and you have to be comfortable with what choose" and the same applies to your H.

I agree with most of the comments Abi, so won’t repeat. I had years of problems too. You say you want the best for your kids. I’m afraid I also think that means not seeing your in laws as opposed to seeing them.

Only you can decide though, and you have to be comfortable with what you choose.

Abi30

I have no idea how to tag users on this site, but I have read all of the responses. I will try to address some points made here...

- my own Mum suggested that I have a quiet word with my MIL too. However, I don’t feel that I can approach her. Whilst my FIL can be verbally mean, my MIL has lost any kind of warmth towards me.
- I have talked to my husband so many times about talking to them, but he won’t. There is definitely some underlying issues in the relationship between them - I don’t think he wants to be aware of them or really think about it too deeply, because it’s naturally upsetting. He would rather carry on and ignore the elephant in the room.
- whilst I can see where many of you are coming from with the kids, estrangement is really a last resort.
- the fact that one of you found the fatty and incubator comments unbelievable, tells me just how terrible those unnecessary comments really were!!

I have been giving my in laws the benefit of the doubt for so long that I am probably seen as a door mat. The idea that my kids will hear them say mean things about me in the future won’t sit with me, so there will likely be a turning point when that happens. Making a decision like that will also put my husband on the spot to act on the breakdown of the relationship with them... so it might go some way in clearing things up to... or it could lead to irreversible loss because of there lack of having an open mind to listen to the damage that has been caused. As I said in my post, I’m not sure how to move forward with them because their unnecessary comments / coldness is unforgivable, not least due to the anxiety and strain they’ve put on our shoulders.

At the end of the day, I only want the best for my kids.... and it’s only because of the kids that I still see them.

That’s right Abi. As I said, it took 25 years with us. We DID try, but it just didn’t work. The point is...you are struggling, so that is going to pass to your children. No doubt about it. As Agnurse says, you are rewarding their behaviour. Your husband is NOT going to do it. In a perfect world...you would be able to decide everything together and move forward. It’s not a perfect world, and you’ve gone past your sell by date. You can’t just sit back and let them treat you this way in front of your children. It’s not fair. You’re being too nice Abi.
Please don’t let this continue. It won’t end well.?

Your husband sounds a lot like mine. Eventually I decided that if I was nothing, I'd do nothing. Being too afraid to deal with his parents meant he avoided them. So they drifted apart. Now I look back and am annoyed with myself for allowing myself to be treated as I was for so long. My ILs weren't overtly mean like yours either. It was subtle but obvious. Although some witnesses to some events would say it wasn't so subtle really. I wouldn't want my children around people who think it is okay to treat others the way your ILs treat you. What can they learn from that?

Meant to say, no way would l visit them.

What foolish people they are being so mean towards you. Exactly what power do they think they have over this situation?
I wonder what makes people behave like this?
They stand to loose all of you, grandchildren their son and you.
Any normal intelligent person would be happy that their grown up children found love , marriage and had children.
When you see your children happy with husband’s and wives isn’t it normal as a mil & fil to love them too?
I feel very sorry for your husband as l doubt they were such nice parents to him and he’s still trying to be the dutiful son.
There’s no way that I wouldn’t visit them and I wouldn’t want my children going either in fact l would call the fil and tell him why.
I would feel very strongly about my children being around people that had treated me with such disrespect it’s the wrong message for them.
Shame on them for being so mean to you they are nothing but bullies.

what benefit are your DC getting from being in touch with these people.
they are not a good example for children.
forget about them.
you don't owe them anything.
live your own life and have some peace and enjoy it.
all the best.

If you have daughters, do they want to be called fatty by their grandfather?

The same applies to boys

That is how many eating disorders start

It is your ILs destroying the relationship they could have with your family - they are certainly doing a great job at that!

From seeing sorry

How do your kids benefit from seen 2 people who are openly hostile to their mother, and their father does not do anything to correct it?

If your ILs are so nasty to you, they will do the same to the kids

I have no idea how to tag users on this site, but I have read all of the responses. I will try to address some points made here...

- my own Mum suggested that I have a quiet word with my MIL too. However, I don’t feel that I can approach her. Whilst my FIL can be verbally mean, my MIL has lost any kind of warmth towards me.
- I have talked to my husband so many times about talking to them, but he won’t. There is definitely some underlying issues in the relationship between them - I don’t think he wants to be aware of them or really think about it too deeply, because it’s naturally upsetting. He would rather carry on and ignore the elephant in the room.
- whilst I can see where many of you are coming from with the kids, estrangement is really a last resort.
- the fact that one of you found the fatty and incubator comments unbelievable, tells me just how terrible those unnecessary comments really were!!

I have been giving my in laws the benefit of the doubt for so long that I am probably seen as a door mat. The idea that my kids will hear them say mean things about me in the future won’t sit with me, so there will likely be a turning point when that happens. Making a decision like that will also put my husband on the spot to act on the breakdown of the relationship with them... so it might go some way in clearing things up to... or it could lead to irreversible loss because of there lack of having an open mind to listen to the damage that has been caused. As I said in my post, I’m not sure how to move forward with them because their unnecessary comments / coldness is unforgivable, not least due to the anxiety and strain they’ve put on our shoulders.

At the end of the day, I only want the best for my kids.... and it’s only because of the kids that I still see them.

Any man that would continue to have a relationship with people like this and expose his children to that upsets his wife isn’t ready to be a husband or father.

If he continued with that I would start to focus on your worth.

Allowing them that relationship gives them exactly what they want - and teaches them that their poor behaviour is rewarded.

Fine but the decision is for BOTH parents