SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Thank you also much x

Oh dear, what a cruel thing for your son to say Socksandsocks01
Sometimes it doesn't matter how hard you try it's must never enough for some people.
As Whiff says it's even crueller when they don't tell us to our faces.
We all do the best we can, but someone we fail to live up to some definition of perfect parenting that our angry offspring imagine they should have had. I wonder if they will attain it. As smiles says some might only gain a different perspective if they are on the other end of it.

So sorry Socksandsocks you did your best, which is all anyone CAN do. Like Smileless says and as Granniesunite says, sometimes estrangement is impossible to avoid. I think no one can change what's already happened and if your EAC is upset about the past, there's no way you can go back and change anything. At the time you did what you thought was best and tried your best for them and if your best isn't good enough, what can you do?

Each generation thinks they will do better than the last, but the truth is, we are all human and we all make mistakes even when we try our hardest. I feel really sad for the poor lady in Plymouth whose last view may have been of her son pointing a gun at her. (For those who may not be English, a young man shot his mother and went on to shoot other people as well before shooting himself) It has later come out that he was an Incell and a Misogynist who HATED his single Mum. This makes me incredibly sad. I know some awesome single Mums and no one deserves this. I'm devastated for her. To bring up your thankless child and be estranged is one thing. To be shot and killed by your thankless and full of hatred child is something else. I'm not at all minimising our suffering, but I wanted to give this lady a moment. She was a mother. We don't know her, but we assume she did her best and it wasn't "good enough".
for Ms Davidson. RIP

Actually I put up with a lot of bad treatment from my son. I never really admitted it to myself, but when I read the story about Ms Davis I remembered how misogynistic my son is and how resentful about the past. He blames me for a lot of things that actually were not my fault, such as his health issues- but I can honestly say hand on heart that I always did my best for him.

He may not be talking to me anymore (and I do miss my GC) but I am peaceful with no more abuse directed at me. I hope one day he can forgive and let go. Until that time I am better off without him. No one needs disrespect and abuse and although I may have enabled him in the past, no more.

If I am guilty of anything, it's of giving him TOO MUCH attention and pandering to him too much. I literally could not have done more for him, but it was always one way. He is a selfish entitled person and that may be my fault. I cant fix what he resents and if he can't see any good in me then a separation has to be there for my own wellbeing. I can see that now. I feel sorry for his wife, who he IS successfully able to control. If he could control me, he probably would still be speaking to me.

But oh well. Peace is priceless. It comes at a price. I would like a better relationship with him, but it depends on him. I'm not sure I could ever really trust him again seeing as he has deprived me of the GC, knowing how devastated I would be.

Smiles your right despite the heartache my son's rejection has caused and finding out how much my daughter in law hates me. I have found peace.

Never thought I would. I miss my son and grandson's everyday but it's his choice and he has to live with the consequences . Don't think either of them realise that my grandson's will want to know why I am not in their life when they are older. What lies will they tell them I wonder? And will their other nannie support those lies? Only time will tell.

Today is the day I found our relationship was definitely over. With the return of the presents etc and that letter. Luckily the year has gone by quickly.

And a lot has happened in my life in that year. Few extra health problems but I am coping with them. Bungalow got finished. My daughter and family moved house .Seen my brother and sister in law here and visited them . Also got to see my nephew and a friend I hadn't seen for 2 years which was lovely.

Started my new exercise class and made new friends. Grown some veg .

But I face the future with a positive frame of mind. Have wobbles . A tidal wave of grief hits me every now and then for my husband. So I have a good cry and get on with my life. Wonder what my grandson's look like and if my son is happy. Only wish I knew what my third grandsons name was. Funny that's one thing that still hurts so much not knowing his name. I know it will be something grand as his brother's names are.

Tried to watch a video of them the other day but had to switch off as soon as I heard my son talking and laughing. But can't watch with the sound off as I wanted to hear the boys. Try again in 6 months see how I feel then.

Thinking back to my brother's second wife. I realise my parents must have been going through hell. He's wife phoned as soon as he went to visit my parents and us to see when he was coming back. She rarely visit either of us. Mom and Dad visited them every week afterwards
came to see us. Whilst I made tea they both where in tears over something she had said to them or the children.

Neither me or my husband liked her but never treated her badly she was family. She was my brother's choice and the mother of his 3 children. For the love of my brother and nephew and nieces we put up with her unreasonable behaviour.

It's funny how much we put up with because of love. And I suppose a sense of duty. As I have said before I was brought up with family was everything . My dad's brother and half siblings wouldn't have had the life they did without my mom. Once they met she made sure they had birthday and Christmas presents which was something they hadn't had.

Found myself missing them this week. As after my husband died they where my rocks.

Oh hell just started crying so better finish. Don't know really why?

OnwardandUpward your post wasn't on the thread when I started to write.

I am glad you are able to find peace. I will never trust my son ever again and never forgive him or my daughter in law. He has forever destroyed what we had. And he will have to live with that. That's if he gives a dam about me.

You are so right peace is priceless. We need to enjoy it to the full. What ifs are a waste of time and energy. And none of us know how long we have. So we must enjoy the now and look to the future. The past is gone and can not be changed. ?

I've been thinking the same thing OnwardandUpward, while I was listening to the news this morning. That poor woman; she tried to get him help and her last moment in life was seeing her son, full of hate, pointing a gun at her. RIP Ms.Davidson .

"The past is gone and cannot be changed" exactly Whiff. I wonder if our EAC will ever have peace in their lives. Their continued bitterness, anger and resentment which fuels their estrangement of us makes the possibility of them finding peace unlikely IMO.

Remembering how I felt when I first posted on GN 8 years ago, and seeing how all of you are finding some peace in your lives despite your estrangements, makes me inside and out.

for each and every one of you.

Smiles you have given me more than I can ever thank you for. When I was so lost you where there for me and your wise words has helped so much that is why I have the peace I have now.

Knowing you understood exactly what I was going through and you opening up about what happened with your son made the loss of my son and grandson's easier to cope with.

Plus all who have joined this thread. Only someone going through estrangement can help others. It's not something you can learn about in books . Until it happens to you you have no idea how anyone else feels in that situation.

It's like beveveament only someone who has lost their other half understands what they feels like.

It must have been hellish for you when you first started the thread. But you should feel very proud of how many people you have helped and will continue to do so. You are worth your weight in gold. ❤️

Thank you Whiff. I cannot take credit for the very first thread which led me here to GN so long ago, nor can I put into words how grateful I will always be to those who were posting at that time.

I found it so helpful and such a comfort to know that we weren't the only ones living this nightmare that I was, and am determined to make sure there is always a support thread here.

There was just a handful then, just one thread in AIBU before it was moved to the Relationship forum. The interest and need was such that GNHQ then gave estrangement its own forum.

Pretty amazing really, just like everyone who posts here.

So sorry Whiff that today is the day. You have done so well and have so much to be proud of. Like you, I miss them every day and yet I manage to find pleasure and joy in things at the same time. I never knew it was possible to feel two things at once until now.

Aww so sorry Whiff (hugs!) Yes, we do put up with a lot in the name of love. Even though I miss them, I don't miss the head games and lack of respect, abusive behaviour etc.

It's true, the past is gone. Today we visited my SiL and BiL and it really made me think of what I do have. We had a really good chat and I actually feel sorry for my son who now has (by his own choice) no family. He completely walked away from all the family because of the covid jab! What a loss. We may have lost them, but we still have our siblings and other relatives. We have pets that give us love as well. I know you can't replace people and I wouldn't want to, but we have many things to enjoy even though we daily live with loss.

Yes Smileless I said to my SiL today "if anything happens to me it will be him" (my son) because same. I tried so hard to get him MH help and he resents me for it. I did my best. That lad was into some of the same conspiracy theories and other stuff that my son is into, though mine is not an Incell.

I don't think our EAC know what peace and love are, Smileless and it will impact on all their relationships until they deal with it. Including the damage they are inflicting on their children by thinking they are going to be better parents than we were but not actually getting therapy to make that a reality.

Thanks so much Smileless for all you've done. I'm so glad there is forum space for it because it shouldn't be something we have to let affect our MH. Talking can be therapy and hopefully now with Estrangement charity Stand Alone and with the subject being discussed here, people can feel able to discuss and find ways of moving forwards.

My son and dil are getting divorced, I haven't seen my grandson for over 8 months now and I miss him so much, I used to look after him one day a week until she moved to Manchester. How do you cope?. My son is fighting for child arrangement but the distance is too far for him to see his son every week.

Whogoesthere you take it one day at a time. It's all you can do.

When my brother and second wife divorced he's oldest children went with him but his youngest daughter was only 8 or 9 so stayed with her mom. Even though they didn't live far apart he only saw her every second weekend by she stayed Friday night until Sunday afternoon.

Perhaps your son could have the same arrangement and then you could see your grandson. Don't know how old your grandson is.

I last saw my 2 grandson's with my son and daughter in law in March last year and have never seen the baby who is now 1. It's hard but it's their parents choice not mine not to see them. It will back fire on them when my grandson's are older and want answers just hope they don't tell lies about me.

You will find help and support here. ?

I'm so sorry for the situation you find yourself in whogoesthere. As Whiff says all you can do is take one day at a time.

You and your son will be able I'm sure to support one another. As long as your son sees his children, you'll be able to see your GC.

Our GC being told lies about us is something that continues to upset Mr. S. Whiff. For me, knowing that there's nothing I can do about it if they are, enables me to cope with it.

They either will or they wont seek us out when they're older, and as I've said before, for me I'd rather they didn't as it would just be too painful to have two young men who are strangers, turn up on the door step and come face to face with all that was so cruelly and un necessarily taken from us.

Whogoesthere yes keep breathing and one step at a time. I did not think I could live through this loss, but here I am, the walking wounded. Its a body blow and some days are harder than others.

I might be weaker than the rest of you, but I would take anything I'm offered just to have the chance to see my GC again ( even just a photo).

Onwardandupward. Your son is not like a lot on here. It seems your son has quite deep emotional problems and mental health issues. You need to distance yourself as protection of course you do. Mental illness is so underfunded, look at the young man that killed his mother and sister, it’s truly frightening. No one chooses what illness they get, because those with personality disorders or other mental health issues look healthy and can on many levels interact normally, people assume they are in control, but they are victims too as no one would choose to be that way.
This doesn’t help you I know, but it shows you that nothing you could say or do can alter him, so you have to make a diffferent life.

Allsorts yes I have been thinking about it a lot. He is a misogynist and does blame me for his problems. His Dad was never there for him but he blames me for that. Like the young man you mentioned, he believes in the Conspiracy theories etc . He has spent time in hospital as a result of his MH, but resents me for signing the papers. I have always done my best for him, but I don't think he will ever realize how much I've loved him. I am having counselling at the moment and trying to move on.

Hi
My GS is 3,I have put all his toys away but haven't the heart to throw them out as I keep thinking one day soon he will come and see me if his Mummy and other grandparents allow it, she is living with them now so I am sure they have a say in what she does.Tuesday are the worst as that was the day I always looked after him.

Whiff, please be careful about building up an expectation that your gc will seek you out when they are older. You speak about it like it is definite. I'm concerned you are setting yourself up for future disappointment if it doesn't happen. Maybe think of it as a hopeful possibility?

whogoesthere that is very very had for you after caring for him weekly. What happened to change things?

Good Morning everyone

May I join you. I came been posting on the Understanding Estrangement thread but it strikes me it is probably more appropriate for me to sign up here.

Won't rehash everything. But basically I have been trying to head off estrangement for some time now, putting up with all sorts of nonsense and abuse, walking on eggshells , desperately trying to hold on, trying to stave off the inevitable.

But now I have more or less given up. I am currently being given the silent treatment (again) and quite frankly hers a part of me that is quite happy with non contact. At least that way I can't be hurt any more.

The saddest and most difficult part in all this is that I will, in all probability lose my grandchildren......

I've no idea where I go from here....all I know is just feel drained and exhausted with it all. Just going to try and keep busy, get on with getting through each day. About all I can manage right now.

Like so many of us I never thought it would come to this, but I guess there's some small comfort in knowing I'm not alone. I am not the only one going through the pain of estrangement,

Sorry typo.....have been posting ....

Oh Whiff, I've only just caught up on this thread, I can't believe your DiL actually took an alias and posted on here, what a bitter sad person she must be - to purposely try to hurt you I cannot believe someone would go to those lengths. You show such strength (amongst others) and I admire you. I still haven't posted my story because each time I read these threads I feel like I have got off lightly.

Good afternoon everyone. Yesterday's funeral went very well. Mr. S. gave a lovely and moving eulogy during the service with just enough humour and plenty of happy memories.

Welcome to the support thread DerbyshireLass. This is a very difficult time for you, not knowing when or if estrangement is what you'll be facing.

You've shown tremendous strength and courage on the other thread and I look forward to seeing your inspirational and insightful posts here too.

If you're hurting Elless you're hurting. No ones pain is any greater or less than anyone else's so please don't feel unable to share because you feel you "got off lightly".

I feel that way too, when I see other posters who've lost the GC they knew and loved and spent a lot of time with. We were lucky that that was never the case. Our eldest GC was 8 months old the last time we saw him, and there'd been little contact anyway. We've had no contact with his brother so when it come to GC we've lost what we thought we would have.

My heart goes out to all those GP's who have lost what they actually had.

Glad the funeral went well Smileless.

Well not the best of days. Tearful, cold, nauseous, shaky. My friend rang me this morning to see how I was doing. Bless her, where would we be without friends, both in RL and on here.

It's very autumnal again here today. Cold wind and a few spots of rain so no shed painting today. I forced myself to go out, just to the supermarket for a few bits but don't really think I can do much else today.

Not sleeping very well at the moment but that's hardly surprising. I've actually come back to bed, snuggled up with my duvet and electric blanket. Just feel exhausted. Going to read and have a nap if I can.

You're right Smileless it's the not knowing that I'm struggling with. They have asked for no contact so that's what I'm doing. I do think it's rather insulting that they think they can keep calling all the shots, that I have no say and am kept dangling like a fool.

They are behaving like sulky teenagers, rather than proper grown ups. They are 37 fgs.......TBH the longer this drags on the less I am inclined to want anything to do with the pair of them.

I hate to admit it but in many ways it's my own stupid fault for not sticking up for myself sooner. I kept giving in, keeping my mouth shut for the sake of peace and harmony, pandering to their whims and acquiescing to their ridiculous demands. And look where it's got me. Just kicked in the teeth for my pains.

I only saw my GC roughly once a month, so although yes of course I will miss them, it could be much worse. The eldest is just turned 3 and the baby is 9 months. They would soon forget me. I do take your point that both the children and I would miss out on what MIGHT have been rather than on what HAS been. If we are going to be estranged then it's probably better it happens now rather than later.

Just throughly fed up with it all now. The ball is in their court. But I'm going to be very careful going forward. I just don't feel I can trust either of them again, so if they do condescend to allow me into their lives I'm going to be very much on my guard.

I will never forget the vile abuse I have suffered at my DILs hands. I just don't want her near me ever again. At the moment I feel very ambivalent about my son. If I'm honest I am just not sure how I feel now.

It's understandable that you don't know how you feel about your son DerbyshireLass, I'm not always sure how I feel about ours and it's been more than 8 years.

There's nothing stupid about the effort you put into trying to maintain the relationship, rather than seeing this as a bad thing, see it for what it was, a loving mum and GM doing all she could to keep those she loves in her life.

I hope you've managed to get some sleep this afternoon, it's so much harder to deal with when you're deprived of sleep.