SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Up and pottering about again at last.

Oh Whiff my heart breaks for you at the thought of writing that letter. Then to be castigated for it is so cruel. You have so much to contend with. I too have chronic illness and disability to fight with as well as the rubbish life chucks our way, it definitely makes things harder. We're looking to move to a bungalow during the next year, I am so looking forward to a fresh start and hope we can find some lovely neighbours.

Onwardandupwards I really have no idea how you can begin to talk to someone who is brainwashed to that extent. The fact that he is so vehement about it must be a reflection that deep down some part of him knows it will all fall apart if he allows himself to question it at all. My guess is that reality will eventually clash with his beliefs and it will all implode but he might be even more fragile if that happens. I do hope he eventually finds some way out of his darkness.

After dropping of ES's belongings, at a neutral spot, as requested (or at least one car load there's a few more but there were go many to take at once) we heard he was unhappy about some of the things we sent - he thought some were things we'd want to keep as momentoes of him. DH emailed about a couple of practical details and said, 'We would rather you told us what you wanted or came and sorted it out but that wasn't possible.'
ES replied 'I'm considering whether I want to have any contact with you both now. But I haven't decided yet.' - What are we supposed to do with that? - in fairness, this was to explain why he is dealing with certain practicalities in the way he is, but now I'm all at sea again.

hugshelp that is painful for you, left "hanging" whilst your son "decides"! Your son seems to be calling all the shots and expecting you to jump to his tune, fit in with his expectations etc. He appears to be unaware that you are entitled to have expectations too. I am so sorry you are going through this

Onwardandupward tge brainwashing has really taken your son over, hasn't it. Impossible to reason with and do sad for you. You are entitled to make your own decisions about your life which your son appears not to think is the case ...that must be hard for you ?

Hugshelp I don't think I can say anything to him. I'd like to, but like you say, he IS vehement. My husband thinks perhaps it's a phase. I'd like to think so, but only time will tell. I think he must be in a dark place. Thanks so much and I hope he finds a way out of the dark place too. Yes Madgran77 it has, sadly. It is hard, but I have again decided to do...nothing.

So sorry for your pain Hugshelp it does sound like maybe your son does want you in his life or at least he wants to feel remembered... Maybe he just needs time? I hope it's that. So sad *Whiff , you have so much to deal with!
Glad you are having a fresh start Hugshelp but don't go lugging heavy stuff around for your son. He should be putting in the manpower involved to move his own stuff so you don't end up hurting yourself.

I really hate it when people try to use their kids as a weapon and a bargaining chip. They always end up losing and so do we. Also, it's the kids who lose out. Whatever my parents did wrong, at least we had occasional access to loving Grandparents.

Oh I hate that too OnwardandUpward and I can't help but wonder the extent of the trouble parents are storing up for themselves by withdrawing their children to punish their parents.

Yes, thinking about how close I was to my Grandparents I really wonder... I've not always seen eye to eye with my Mum, but I do really appreciate the fact that she endured difficult relationships with her mother and Mil so we could have grandparents. Todays kids don't seem to be so resilient or kind, so who KNOWS what attitudes their kids will have towards them.

I do wonder what the relationship with today's young parents and their kids will be like onwards

I think many generations in the past stayed in contact with relatives out of a sense of duty. I don't think there is such a sense of duty these days.

CafeAuLait I think that's why my husband would never give up on his parents. He said he didn't like them but loved them because they where his parents. That's why he made me promise to look after his mom after he died. I hated her but my promises to my husband mean a lot to me and have kept everyone. As he knew I would .

Our parents were complete opposites. They had money but no time or love for him . Plenty of criticism and barbed comments. Which I got as well . I really think they never thought we would marry as their treatment of us got worse after we married. My father in law's only good quality he adored our children the only thing he disapproved about was our daughter she loved to pick up her baby brother and cuddle him. He didn't like it. When he died she was 4 and our son 8 months. When we told her the only thing she said ',he told me off for picking up my brother' and never mentioned him again. His mother was spiteful to her but was all our son until he was 5 and had a mind of his own. Then she was the same with him. Still my husband wouldn't give up on her.

Shows you what a wonderful man I married. His only fault was he never stuck up for me against his parents. Had to fight my own battles with them and then just his mom. Lost track of the times I walked out of their house rather than say something . I was with my husband from 1975 he's dad died in 1988 aged 70. My husband died in 2004 aged 47. His mom lived until she was 91 died in 2015.

Why is it the horrible people live a long life and the good die young.

My parents as I said where complete the opposites to them. We weren't brought up with money. But they still brought their own house and dad had his car. But we had all the love and attention any child could wish for. Weeks holiday every year in a caravan. All mom's family where the same . My husband and dad found out what a real family was . My dad when he met my mom in 1948 and my husband when he went out with me. My husband and brother where already friends as they where in the scouts together. And I knew my husband as he was friends with my best friend at schools boyfriend. But we didn't start courting until he left school and I was still at school.

My son knew my husband's mom and how she treated us. He used to comment on the differences between her and my parents.

I used to say he was a lot like his dad and he was. But he and my daughter in law have showed themselves to be like my in laws. I hated them but don't hate my son or daughter in law. Said before don't want or need hate in my life. Had my fill of that for years.

A lot can be accomplished by duty. The Queen is a great example, even through intense heartache, she has soldiered on undeterred by the awful things that some of her kids (and grandkid) have done.
I don't think there is much duty in today's young and they will pay the price long after we are gone!

Lately the thing I am most pleased with myself about is that (despite a few wobbles) I have managed to stay on top of "the day job" and even though I've been robotic at times, I have kept putting one foot in front of the other.

Whiff, thats so sad! I would guess that your husband didnt stand up for you because he couldnt stand up for himself to his bully parents? I think traits do skip a generation, so that definitely explains whu your son is like that. I dont hate anyone either. It's so sad that your husband died so young and that you had to look after his Mum who lived so long!
So sad your daughter was told not to pick up her baby brother. That is a really old fashioned way of thinking and really bad! All of it is so heartbreaking, Whiff.

"A lot can be accomplished by duty" I agree "OnwardandUpward* and if it's a sense of duty that manages to maintain some kind of a relationship that's better than nothing, especially if that enables GC to continue to see their GP's.

I agree cafe.
Interesting contrasts between people Whiff but nobody thrives on hate, as you say you don't need it. It's sad when you see people who don't even try to understand or nurture others.
Well done on keeping up with the job onwards. We all need to be proud and grateful for things we do manage. As you say duty can get a lot done.
Hope you are keeping well smiles, and Mr S.

Smiles hope you and Mr S are coping with your mother in law's death. Mr S is lucky to have you as you know exactly how he feels. Hopefully he will have you dancing round the house again soon. ?

We're away at the moment which is making this delay before the funeral easier to deal with. It will take place two days after we get home, and it's when we're home that we tend to think about it more.

It's a strange time though isn't it, feels as if we're stuck in a kind of 'no man's land' and nothing can be planned until the funeral is over.

Thanks everyone for you kindness and support from me and Mr. S..

Smiles it is a strange time between death of a loved one and the funeral. You know the person you loved has died and you will never see them again. But the funeral makes it all real. It's the final thing you can do for them . It becomes real that they are gone forever.

But it's what happens afterwards that can be worse . It's other people's reactions that can hurt more make your grief worse.

I hope that doesn't happen to you and Mr S. ??

Thanks Hugshelp!
So glad you're away with Mr S, Smileless Hope you have a lovely break and that all goes as well as possible with the funeral. Whiff, that's a sobering thought. I hope not as well

The wait between the death and the funeral can seem endless and yet at the same time, you wander around trying to work out what needs to be done. Time can be your enemy. I think getting away was a very good move and I hope the time away is helping you both. smiles

As whiff so rightly points out the reactions of others can intensify the pain. We all have a right to feel what we feel and deal with it in our own time.

It's too long to explain but as a divorced young mother I brought my kids up single handed in early 80s, when lone parents were not commonplace. I had no social life, few clothes and little money. Now my eldest has said I failed in ever aspect of being a mother, addressed me by my Christian name in his abusive hurtful text. I've jumped through hoops all through the grandchildren lives just to keep involved. Now they too have been brainwashed against me. All the conformity for years hasn't prevented them cutting me out of their lives. My other son is totally different. I think my son and daughter in law have psychological issues and I've tried to be supportive for years but being belittled and ridiculed have also been tactics used in the past. I'm still hurt by it all and wish I'd backed off years ago..

Hindsight is a wonderful thing socksandsocks but you did then what you thought was right.
Sometimes you can't avoid estrangement no matter what you do.
I hope now you have the resources to deal with the pain, protect yourself and have a decent life in the future. You deserve no less.

Thank you Granniesunite for your kindness.

That is a very harsh statement from your son Socksandsocks. I can't imagine it's fair. You know you did your best and that's all you could have done. Hopefully one day your son will look back and appreciate the difficult circumstance you were in and how hard you worked for him.

Socksandsocks I am sorry your son has turned against you. After all you have been through it must have been so hard bringing the children up alone.

Your son took the cowards way out and told you by text. It's so cruel not face you. My son did it via email then letter. Wonder if they are frighten they won't go through it if they face us?

It's my son's 34th and his second son's 3rd birthday today. So I wished them happy birthday out loud. Tomorrow will be a year since the letter and returned presents all unopened. And a definite zero contact after more lies. But I feel fine about it .

I will not make any excuses for either my son or daughter in law having psychological issues. Because that gives them an excuse for their behaviour . And I will not let them have any excuses. When I haven't done anything wrong.

As I have said my brother things my daughter in law is jealous of my relationship with my son and the 2 out of the 3 grandson's I know loved coming here.

We leave the hospital with our babies get home then say what do we do now. Unfortunately children don't come with a manual and each one is different. As mine where growing up wished there was a mute button. But never reset.

Why is it we bring our children up the same ,one turns against us but the other would walk over hot coals for us. It's who they choose to love seems to be the fly in the ointment. But as we all know who we fall in love with we have no control over.

Socksandsocks you will find help and support here. Smiles made this a safe place for us. And know you are not alone. ?

Very true Whiff. I'm so pleased I found this site when I needed it most. Thank you all x

I always wonder how our EAC will cope of their children do to them what they've done to us and let's face it, they may well discover that they've taught them by example.

You did your best for your children in extremely difficult circumstances Socksandsocks. As Granniesunite has posted estrangement sometimes just can't be avoided no matter what you do.

Despite the heartache estrangement brings, we have been able to find peace and happiness that at the time, we would never have thought possible.

I hope you'll be able too and we're here to help and support you any way we can.