SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

We all have to live our lives to the full. And do and be with who makes us happy. Being on my own all these years since my husband died I lost me as I still had other people dependent on me. Only after kids left home for good and parents and mother in law died. I could decide what I wanted out of life. In a strange way having jaundice and being ill for so long not being able to do much. Gave me time to really think what I wanted. Even as a child I was always looking out for others. Also finding out I could have died was a wake up call. Shows how much my son cares he knows that and still threw me away.

There are 2 certainties in life we are born and we die. Everything else is up to us. I know I probably have said this before. But it's still true.

Moving gave me back my identity. Didn't realise I had lost me. We get so wrapped up in our rolls daughter, sister,wife,mother, grandmother etc. They take over our lives. I loved and still love my rolls the ones I still have . But I love being me more. I would give everything to have my husband back fit and healthy but I can't. But what I have done since he died keep the promises I made him. They are more important to me than my son and daughter in law's lies and childlessness.

Having the extra heart problem has made me more determined to live my live for me. But I am happy to have a diagnosis. If that sounds selfish
so be it but my daughter has told me it's about time. I am 63 now I don't know what the future holds but I am going to live every minute of it.

We all must. What our children have done will all come back to them when their own children are older and they can no longer control them. It's not revenge it's karma. Also the way of the world .

Also what's with all these new fangled words toxic,grey rock, narcissistic,enabled etc. What has happened to evil,wicked,unfeeling, uncaring, down right rude, couldn't give a rat's ass etc. Why all these new words when the old ones meant so much more.

Probably just me but am fed up having to look up these new words. Where are they coming from. Books , councillors and the like I suppose. When the old words convay exactly what you mean.

Glad to see so many taking hold of their lives and giving them a good shake. If we don't live our lives to the full them we don't deserve them. My husband didn't want to die at 47 but he had no choice. What we make of our lives is our choice good , bad or indefinitant . If you have someone you love to share that with life with all the better. But you can make a really good life on your own. It's hard if you lose the other half of yourself. But it can still be a good life.

That's a good idea Madgran77 to send a voucher for DiL as well. Knowing her, she'd love a voucher.

My concerns about sending gifts are: I don't want to be seen to be trying to buy their affections and I don't want to be a doormat. I think if you give a gift you shouldn't have strings attached, so I wouldn't do it with "expectations". If they receive gifts and do not acknowledge them though, how long to do this for before feeling used? Is it right for someone to benefit from us even though they do not want to know us?

Perhaps I would finish the year by sending the gift for DiL and a gift for my GC's birthday so that all of them have had a birthday gift this year- and put in a note to say that if we don't hear from them we will assume they don't want to celebrate Christmas? That way, I can draw a line under this year and not buy Christmas gifts for ungrateful people who refuse to acknowledge me? But my GC..... won't even know or understand it's from us. Difficult!

I think my son is quite happy to receive gifts, he just won't answer the phone or communicate in any way. I just don't want to be rewarding bad behaviour so I might just round up these birthday's so everyone is treated the same and not do Christmas if still no communication.

My son sent my gifts back unopened last year and told me zero contact. So his got his wish.

My grandson's have had to go without because of their parents. Still can't get over him being spiteful enough not to let my grandson's have their presents.

How can a parent be spiteful to their child. ? Especially as they where all under 5 last year.

Hopefully they wouldn't know they missed out Whiff.

It does feel wrong to keep things that come through the post from their intended recipient.

In my case though I had to because there were little messages in the cards that were guilt trips or talked about how sad she was and I made the decision that was too upsetting to get on a birthday. Over the 5 years or so she continued to send them, she consistently forgot my daughter too. She never cared for her, my daughter noticed that before I did. My older children were adults before they stopped coming but then just read them and threw them in the bin.

They were old enough by then to see what I had seen all along and I've been so surprised at how much they picked up and noticed when they were little. I'd told them I was estranging and why in age appropriate ways at the time and they were all fine with it. Now they are all much older though, occasionally they come to me to tell me memories or things and I feel so awful I didn't know or protect them from at the time.

The mind boggles doesn't it Whiff and who knows if there'll be a backlash some time in the future when our GC are older and realise they were deprived of a GM/GP's.

A year or so back I read a post from a lady who'd never known her maternal GP's and had been told some rather unpleasant things about them to account for their absence in her life.

When her mother died she did some digging and discovered that they'd lived just a few miles from them for her entire life.
She also found out that the things she'd been told about them by her mother were untrue.

She was very angry with her mum and as she had died couldn't talk to her about it and that anger was affecting the grieving process.

"How can a parent be spiteful to their child" and how can an AC be spiteful to their parent(s)?

That's a horribly sad situation Smileless2012 did the OP explain how she found out what was true or not or was it their word against her mothers?

It makes me imagine what could have happened if I had estranged while my children were little.

What a horrible choice if I could go back in time.

Estrange before they had to witness any abuse for themselves or be on the receiving end of it or estrange after they had witnessed and receieved abuse and have them know the truth for themselves.

The first option if I died now with nothing but my word could be devastating for them while they were vulnerable and needing support and the second option left me wishing I had protected us sooner.

Awful thoughts, no win situation. I'll stop thinking about it.

As I posted, the poster found this out after her mother had died and her maternal GP's were also dead.

She spoke to old friends of her GP's who knew them well and her mother as she was growing up. There were some revelations there I seem to remember and I think she also found extended family that she'd not known existed before.

I'm sorry Smileless I hadn't realised you were saying they were also deceased. What a sad situation for the OP. I hope she has come to terms with it by now.

Whiff I understand what you mean by the new words, it took me a while to come to grips with them. I think some of them are for diagnosable personality disorders that exhibit the same symptoms and that then dictates the treatment that the victim would benefit from. Grey rock is actually a wonderful tool and can offer really good protection. I don't know if you were on the other discussion but it has helped a lot of people to cope with difficult relationships, it's a shame it doesn't work with all toxic people so we could all take control back but some of them just try harder if they are determined to hurt you.

We keep it very simple in our house though. The rules are that we don't disrespect each other, we do not try to control each other and we do not continue in behaviour that hurts or annoys others when we are asked to stop.

I think those rules are really important to teach children, especially mine who have witnessed abuse. I want them to know and understand what sort of behaviour they should never put up with from anyone in the future.

Smileless, Your recollection of that granddaughter being told all her life what awful people her grandparents were, I have heard similar before.The mother and others like her that do that, do it to justify their spiteful nature. It would alter that granddaughters good opinion of her mother for ever, make her wonder if everything she uttered was a lie. I do believe if someone is hateful and vengeful towards you, they are either jealous of you or want to be you and therefore want you of the scene in case you rain on their parade. You can’t reason with them, it’s best to just let them get on with their sad games as you can’t stop them, so just make sure you spend their inheritance and have the best life you can.
You can’t choose your family.

I think you're right Allsorts when you say "they are either jealous of you or want to be you and therefore want you off the scene in case you rain on their parade*.

It was definitely jealousy from our ES's wife, she even told me that she'd been jealous of my relationship with him but she was 'over it now'; obviously not.

I seem to remember her opinion of her own mother being altered by what she discovered, as well as questioning other things that she'd been told.

It was such a shame as she couldn't talk to her mum to ask why she'd done it so would never know.

Jealousy is a strange emotion isn't it. So much wasted time!

So sad Whiff
I agree with you Violetsky and don't know either why a parent would deny their child anything good.
What a sad story Smileless. I can only guess that some people don't consider potential consequences and just act rashly on emotions. Perhaps they realise they made a mistake, but foolish pride gets in the way of their admitting it.

Violetsky your rules for your kids are great. I still have to grey rock a few relatives, but I have not estranged them. I do limit their exposure but I would estrange if it got worse.

Allsorts yes I tend to agree with you there. I love what you said about spending their inheritance, too. Some family members have done their best to mess up my career and yes I do think jealousy is involved now you mentioned it.

Yes jealousy is such a waste of time. A bitter and useless emotion that serves no one well. Thankfully not everyone thinks the grass is greener. (It's greener where you water it.) Perhaps some people look at someone with a successful business or career and feel jealous, but don't know of the personal sacrifices and long hours spent to get to that place. There is always a price to pay for every success and I don't think most people realise that. It's far easier for them to jump to conclusions and point the finger

Some great posts. Some good ideas, grey rocking, jealousy etc. Really helped me this Morning, so thank you. Yes they don't think about the sacrifices we made. My son and DIL have led sheltered lives, knowing nothing of hardships or going without. As my mum used to say "they don't know they're born".

Difficult night, woke up feeling angsty again. Fed up with waking up with low grade anxiety every morning. I have to make a conscious effort every morning to redirect my thoughts away from the elephant that's always in the room.

Hopefully one day I won't have to.

I have to admit though I do feel better than I did a couple of weeks ago, the pain is easing. Not so raw now. Just need to let time and patience work their magic so I can heal.

In the meantime I'm keeping busy, focussing on my to do list.

Well my day isn't as I planned it. Spoke to my GP yesterday afternoon as had to stop beta blockers my heart beat went below 60 for a couple of days. The Dr at the hospital told me to stop it if it did . After speaking to my GP he isn't happy with my heart blood test results so wants to see me this morning. Wants me to see cardio as well as AF clinic. At AF clinic in the morning. Also unhappy I haven't heard from urology been on the waiting list since March. Apparently there is a link between heart failure and kidney problems. Will have to see what he wants doing. But not worried I will have anything done that needs to whatever it is. Don't intend to kick the bucket yet.

Anyway had my instructions from my daughter she wants me live at least 20years so I can see my grandson's grow up. Told her I will do best my best.

Funny in a way my son couldn't careless if I live or die and yet my daughter cherishes me. I am so lucky to be so loved.

Jealousy is such a destructive emotion OnwardandUpward just as damaging if not more so, to the person who destroys relationships because of it.

It's good that you are finding other ways of dealing with those in your life who are a negative influence. If you're unable to continue with the relationships despite your best efforts, you'll know that you did all you could before finally estranging.

You're doing amazingly well DerbyshireLass. I rarely experience anxiety now but if I do, it's because I'm worried our ES may contact us, or when he does.

I was shaking when that email came through last year, a couple of days after my mum died. Mr. S. has to read it first to make sure it was 'safe'. The anxiety wasn't as bad when he got one after his mum died as it was kind of expected, but it was still there.

"Don't intend to kick the bucket yet" I should hope so Whiff there's too much to live for and people to love who love us in return.

Hope all goes well this morning. Take care of yourself.

Hope everything goes ok for you Whiff - lovely words from your daughter

Well back in my usual place. My GP sent me to A&E via ambulance. Been here 3 hours so far.

Oh Whiff you must be fed up waiting around for so long. Keep us posted love x

Oh no, poor you Whiff Hope you get sorted soon and able to go home! Yes having at least one child that loves you definitely helps. Lovely words from your daughter!

Sometimes I have to remind myself to focus on the one child who loves me and not to mention the other. It's hard. I forgot and mentioned his brother yesterday and he said (his name) "Who?" It's probably hit him hard that he too was discarded because of the covid jab.

You have a good way of looking at things Derbyshirelass. It's a painful hand that we have all been dealt, but making the most of what we do have is essential. Admittedly I have comfort eaten through most of August, so I am now going to rein it in and start taking better care of myself.

As it's now 6.00pm Whiff I hope you're home safe and sound and everything went OK.

I am on a side ward may have to stay in overnight. Waiting for X ray and blood test results. Just got to be a patient patient.?

Whiff Take care and don't spend all evening on GN

,Whiff I hope you feel better soon, I also hope they can make a lovely decaffeinated cup of tea for you!

Hope you are ok Whiff. You are having a rough time.