SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Smiles as usual wise words. If I die and my son hasn't been in contact before then he wouldn't know I am dead as no one will tell him. As there is no need for him to know.

But I don't intend to die anytime soon. Hopefully I have another 20 years in me. If they can fix my heart already decided to have any operation they say I need.

Like I decided years ago when my mom had breast cancer the first time if I got it I would want a reconstruction. Not bothered about a nipple but would miss my boobs to much.

Having a total hysterectomy at 38 didn't bother me. As it meant I hadn't got to worry about any cancers there as they took my cervix along with everything else. Also no more smear tests.

I take all the tests that are age related and have had all vaccines . When I am 70 will have the shingles jab.

Told you I am a planner. I like to plan for things that can happen. Unfortunately never planned for my son to turn on me. But what parent would plan for that.

It's just become another thing to over come in my life. Ready for the next challenge.

I thought as I got older things would slow down but since moving here my life has never been so busy. Time just flies by.

Exercise class was good yesterday. Craft group today. Daughter's tomorrow. Saturday I had better given the bungalow a good clean.

Next week is already booked Monday and Tuesday hospital appointments. Wednesday exercise class, Thursday craft group and Friday my daughter's .
Hopefully it will stop raining and I can get in the garden Sunday.

Also got a lot of my Christmas presents already.

Have a good day everyone. ?

Filthy day here, so no outside work. Instead I am decluttering......planning ahead for when I do move. I have got rid of loads but there's still small mountains of stuff. Where does it come from.

I think there must be some kind of tsunami activity going on, you clear one lot, turn your back and there's more.

Well I'm going to be ruthless this time,

Same with the fall out from DIL. Just clearing it all out, from my mind and my heart.

I have ordered a couple of books......The Art of War and The Prince. Both books that are ostensibly about war, military tactics and government but which contain lessons that can be applied to ordinary every day situations such as work, running a business, or even personal relationships that require delicate handling. I read both books years ago but didn't keep them.....time for a refresher course. ?

I was thinking about making a start on Christmas presents soon too. I have read that there might be difficulties with supplies getting through this year and that there might be shortages so it's probably a good idea to get a head start sooner rather than later.

I was wondering how Socksandsocks was, she sounded so low I hope she’s ok.

Well I’ve got all my Autumn clothes out and put my summer wardrobe away in a cupboard. Plus another bag fo4vtge charity shop. Then I got tearful thinking about another Christmas without half my family. Do I send money or gifts, trouble is I don’t know what they like anymore., whether they are used or sent to a charity shop. So really it’s a bit silly of me.
I had to put heating on last night it was so very cold and yet this time last week it was heatwave weather. I do love the seasons though and at least the lawn won’t need cutting but the leaf clearing does.
Have a good day everyone.

Allsorts my son solved the problem of me worrying about gifts for them and my grandson's when he sent everything back unopened August last year.

He said zero contact so that's want he's got. Which means my grandson's have missed out on presents from me. But I could not put up with gifts being returned unopened and crushed along with another vile letter.

I don't even look at things I think they might like. Will not put myself through that pain. I know that may seem selfish but my son and daughter in law have hurt me enough I will not let myself wish for something I can't have.

I concentrate on those that want ,love and care for me. They come first in my life. Also I need to keep myself as healthy as possible so as not to be a worry especially to my daughter.

I have wobbles when I miss my son and grandson's very much. But I pull myself together.

My life is full and I love my life . As I have said before the worse thing to happen was my husband dieing . Nothing else has hurt as much as that.

Ok I was hurt by my son but it's not the same hurt. Also I am no longer the mother he knew. I am stronger and more confident than I have ever been. And I like this new me. So does all those that love me.

In a weird way my son not wanting me has helped me become who I am.

Don't know if that makes sense. But it's how I feel.

Hope you all have a good day. ?

Good Mornjng all.

You are so right Whiff, we become what we are meant to be. We are what life makes us. As Nietzsche said "what does not kill us, makes us stronger".

Being a carer for my paraplegic husband, dealing with all the beaurocracy, having to beg and grovel for help certainly helped me grow a backbone. I am unrecognisable from the ditsy air head I used to be. ??

I often liken myself to steel that had been forged and hardened by fire. My husbands illness and death are what made me stronger. It was definitely a baptism of fire. It was the worst time of my life and nothing will ever top that, not even estrangement from my son. By comparison it would be a walk in the park.

An old boss of mine once taught me a game he called "Worst Case Scenario". It's a way of mentally preparing oneself for something unpleasant or difficult.

What would you do in a given situation, would you survive it, how would you survive it, what is your strategy for dealing with it and, finally, how likely is that situation to arise.

Most of the time things rarely turn out to be as bad we anticipate. We often fret and worry over something which never even happens.

Speaking of potential tricky situations - my son has contacted me and requested that he bring the children to visit this weekend. I have consented to Sunday. He would probably have preferred tomorrow but I have made other plans. In the past I would have changed my plans to accommodate him. Not any more, new boundaries will be in place from now on.

When I was flexible, obliging and easy going DIL walked all over me and treated me with contempt. She has made the classic mistake of taking my easy going nature as a sign of weakness. My fault - I let her get away with it but the worm has now turned. ?. She will have to learn I'm not to be trifled with, that my easy going affable sunny nature now hides an inner core of steel.

I am of course a little apprehensive about how the visit will go......I am sure there will be an undercurrent. I will try to keep it light but I do want to try and have "a talk" with my son. Although I think that might be difficult with the children around and, knowing my son, he would probably rather stick pins in his eyes than engage in any kind of discussion regarding feelings or emotions.

He's always bottled things up. That's part of his problem and why he is so vulnerable to narcissistic abuse. He should have confronted her and nipped things in the bud (actually he should have ran for the hills but that's another story).

But, how could he know what lay ahead for him. He had never had a serious relationship before so he had no yardstick to judge her character. He was like a lamb to the slaughter. I still don't think he fully understands what he's up against, just what a monster he has married.

I can't really say too much on that score though, because I'm just as guilty for not confronting her sooner. It soon became pretty obvious what she and what her game was, but I allowed her to get away with murder (for my sons sake). Had I have met her in other circumstances I would have never have given her the time of day. She would never have been allowed into my inner circle.

Anyway.....we will see what the weekend visit brings, unless of course madam puts a spanner in the works and it gets cancelled or postpone. Wouldn't put it past her to invent some last minute excuse why it can't go ahead.

I am prepared to meet my son half way and give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that his intentions are good, but and this is a big one.....it's a test for him. If he starts any nonsense he will be shown the door.

Went to Asda this Mornjng......gosh prices are rising arent they. What with utility bills set to soar and rising food prices a lot of people are going to be struggling this winter.

I shall definitely be scaling back Christmas this year. Last year I went a bit mad. I ran myself ragged and spent a small fortune trying to create a wonderful Christmas for everyone to liven up the gloom of covid and lockdowns.

Well after 37 years of hosting Christmas I'm going on strike this year. DIL most definitely didn't appreciate my efforts, she took it all for granted and treated me and my other son with her usual disdain. She spent a lot of the day on her mobile phone, like a sullen sulky teenager and as usual she created an uneasy atmosphere. I can do without that so she can pull her finger out and create her own Christmas this year. It will be a joy not to have to suffer her presence. I would rather be on my own than put up with her bad behaviour again.

Families eh. ??

Well Christmas is a lot easier and cheaper these days; it's always worth looking for that silver lining isn't it.

Save yourself the pain and don't send anything Whiff. If you do, you're simply providing them with a stick to beat you with and I wouldn't give them the satisfaction.

Of course you'll be in the wrong. You don't care and probably never did but as we're always going to be the baddie in this particular fantasy world they live in, we may as well protect ourselves from any more pain and deprive them of the opportunity of inflicting any more.

'Worst case scenario' I think we can all identify with that can't we DerbyshireLass scenarios don't get much worse than being estranged by your own AC do they.

Those of you who do face book (I don't) will know that a photo will pop up on a particular day, well one popped up on Mr. S.'s face book page today. A photo of him cuddling our baby GS 8 years ago.

I felt nothing, no sadness as TBH it could have been a picture of him holding any baby. That's how far removed from it all I am now and I'm pleased to say it didn't faze him either.

I wish I'd known almost 9 years ago what I know now but that's the benefit or hindsight isn't it, or the curse perhaps.

Smiles I have no intention of sending anything. After everything came back August last year I was it. I haven't sent anything since and won't.

I doubt my grandson's even know I exist. But that's up to my son and daughter in law.

Got 2 hospital appointments next week. If all goes well at the AF clinic it will be monthly visits.

Checked with urology this week I am still on the list. They are having more clinics so I might be seen before long.

I don't go on Facebook never wanted to never will. That's how my daughter and brother found out about some of the lies my son had been feeding me for years. But they didn't tell me until my son cut us out of his life because they never wanted to hurt me.

I am lucky to have people in my life that love me enough to have protected me for years.

I doubt our GC know we exist Whiff but maybe one day they'll know we did and may want to know why they were never allowed to know us.

Fingers crossed your appointments go well. I've always thought face book is a mine field. Mr. S. is very cautious about who he has for friends; only people he knows well.

I think it unwise looking at Facebook. Goodness knows what is being said about us, I prefer not to know. I came of it years ago. Agree with all you say about gifting etc. It is a waste of time, not for their benefit as they don’t know about us, and we don’t know about what they like. After a long estrangement, it is very difficult to know the people they become or reconnect. I would prefer being on my own Christmas than walking on eggshells Derbyshire, I can’t stand people being with you and permanently attached to their phones it’s so rude, especially as you put so much into the organising etc. Treat yourself. I must confess I always do, birthdays anniversaries and Christmas and always get what I want.?. It’s only a day.

I've always had the attitude Allsorts that if someone is saying something about me behind my back, that they're not prepared to say to my face, I'm not interested.

Let them way what they want to who they want, we know the truth and somewhere deep inside, despite how hard they work to suppress it, so do they.

It's a beautiful sunny day here today and I have some bedding blowing on the line, well actually it's wrapping itself around the line as the wind is rather strong today.

Had a good catch up with DS on face time. He's half way through a two week holiday as the schools have different holiday arrangements in Aus. then they do here.

So plenty of walks along the beach with his dogs, sitting in his favourite coffee bar watching the world go by and submerging himself in his art.

It's so good to be able to talk to him face to face and picture him doing the things he loves, just wish he wasn't doing them on the other side of the world,

Hello my Gransnet friends,

It’s been a while since I last came here because of dealing with regular life issues and basically just getting on with things.
I initially came here because of problems with my AS.

I have some good news today, l am going to Hong Kong to see my daughter, her husband and children and to meet my new grandson.
It’s going to be a long trip from LHR via Finland for 3 weeks then direct to HK to a quarantine hotel for a further 2 weeks.
I’m excited and scared in equal measures but after not seeing them all for over 2 years l would crawl over broken glass to see my family.
After the way my son has treated me this past year it’s a lovely thing for me to know just how much I am loved by my daughter’s family. Especially when she tells me that my son in law is excited about me staying with them for up to 3 months and he’s also paying for the whole trip ! It’s a lovely feeling and I wanted to share my good news with you all ?.
HK is one of the toughest places to go into and l sympathise with anyone that has been separated from their AC in other countries.
Especially you Smileless2012 Australia is only just letting residents back in.
The support my daughter has found on quarantine groups and people wanting to meet up with me whilst in Finland and the extended family in HK is so heart warming.
I’m now looking forward to Christmas with my grandchildren and that is keeping me so upbeat knowing this.
Also I have other advantages like dodging heating bills and loneliness over the winter. I’m so ecstatic right now I could burst.
The awkwardness of my relationship with my son continues but at least he is happy for me to be going perhaps because he won’t have to think about me.
I would love to hear more good news from anybody among the sadnesses that we were all drawn to this very difficult thread for support.
Even the anger has subsided in me that arose due to my son and his fiancé. Right now I don’t want to think about that ? lm too happy (and scared witless ?).

Oh NiceGranny what wonderful news. I'm SO thrilled for you. Christmas with your lovely D and your GC.

It's fabulous, it really is xx

Nicegranny Fantastic news!

Lovely news nicegranny - really chuffed for you.

Nicegranny brilliant news. You will have such a wonderful time you won't want to come back.

Don't forget to get someone to set your heating to come on over the winter months you don't want to come home to burst pipes?.

Good morning everyone

Nicegranny.....that is fantastic news. You will have a wonderful time.

Well I have a little bit of good news too. My son did visit me with the children yesterday, without DIL. It was a bit strained at first but I decided in advance to keep the conversation light and not press him into giving me answers. Once he realised he wasn't in for a grilling he relaxed and we had a nice afternoon.

It may seem cowardly of me not to tackle him but I have decided to "let sleeping dogs lie". He's (sort of) back in the fold. We will just have to see it goes. He did make the first move and I felt it would be churlish of me not to accept the olive branch.

As for DIL ......well that's a whole different ball game. Whilst I am happy never to set eyes on her again I am not sure that that will be workable solution in the long term.

If I want to remain in contact with my son and the children I will probably have to have some involvement with her. I will be very guarded and careful in any future dealings, employing my version of the firewall and using the D.E.E.P. method. If it works great, if not then I've lost nothing,

I stood my ground for 8 weeks, did not cave in and in the end it was my son who presumably with her "permission" made the first move. He did not go behind her back so she is fully aware of where we are at.

If they have learned anything from this it will be that the silent treatment doesn't work with me, that I will not be bullied, that I will not submit to emotional blackmail.

I am under no illusions that DIL has any regard for me but rather than she has relented and allowed contact because she find it's expedient. For now. I am very aware that she can flip the other way at a drop of a hat.

No idea where we go from here. At least she has now learned that I won't be bullied and that using my on and the children as weapons won't wash. Maybe that will be enough for her to realise that she has to play nice......maybe not.

Anyway that's where we are ........not estranged (yet). ?

Good advice Whiff I hope you've taken note Nicegranny in all the excitement you could easily forget!!.

Just seen your post DerbyshireLass more good news.

You handled the visit perfectly, well done. In fact, you've handled the last few weeks perfectly. I think your son is not prepared to let him mum go that easily. Good for him.

Thanks Smileless. Only time will tell. It's been a leaning curve right enough.

I want to be fair and reasonable but at the same time I mustn't allow them or indeed anyone else to take advantage of me and treat me with disrespect. In the aftermath of my husbands illness and death I was so wrapped up in grief and loss that somehow I forgot to take care of myself. I allowed things to slide, because I was too eager to please and as a consequence DIL took advantage. I allowed it to happen.

In a funny way what has happened has been a good thing, it's been the wake up call I needed to stop drifting and to take back the reins. To start living again rather than existing. And to think about what kind of future I actually want,

I have learned some lessons, the most important of which is that if I am to have peace of mind I have to be allowed to be my authentic self and stop people pleasing. I have to be comfortable in my own skin and to do that I need to keep my dignity intact and carry myself with pride and my head held high,

After all I figure if I don't treat myself with courtesy and with self respect then I shouldn't be surprised if others don't afford me the same courtesy. If I allow myself to be a doormat then I shouldn't be surprised when people step all over me. ??

Yes, it's very gratifying to know that my son isn't prepared to let me go easily.

It's hard for him, his loyalties are divided, something I never wanted and something that is so unnecessary. But that is DILs doing, not mine. I think he realises this. I have told him before I will never interfere in their marriage, and I will never put him in a position of being piggy in the middle.

I made a tactical error by telling him about the abusive texts and getting him involved. I also made a silly mistake by trying to defend myself against her accusations. She baited the trap and I fell into it. That was careless of me but I won't do that again......from now on its D.E.E.P. all the way.

I will never sink to her level again. As my friend advised "just be the bigger person".

I came across this quote the other day......"arguing with a narc is a bit like wrestling a pig in mud. Only the pig likes it". I thought that was hilarious and so apt.

As always in life.....it's a good thing to maintain a sense of humour.

Learn to laugh at oneself and ignore the crazies......

From now on its onwards and upwards. No more looking over my shoulder, the past is done.

That was then and this is now.

We are strong, proud and fierce women. We can survive and thrive. All we need is a little support and understanding when times get rough.

Thank you dear ladies I am very excited and l will set the heating on low otherwise Whiff will worry ?.

Thank you Smileless you know that my daughter is desperate to have me with her because she hated the way l was treated.

Madgranand hugshelpthank you both for being happy for me.
I still watching with concern of what’s happening to others Derbyshirelass I feel you did the right thing telling your son and handling the situation the way you did.
I would actually block dil’s number so that she couldn’t contact you and text so that any contact goes through your son.
And I agree with you that we all need hold our heads up high and be proud of who we are.
“Only the pig likes it” ???

"Only the pigs like it" that's brilliant DerbyshireLass.

I'm glad that you've been reminded of your own self worth. That you give respect and should be given respect in return. That you're no one's emotional punch bag, and that you're not into playing games. You've sent a clear message; if they want to play they'll have to play without you.

I hope and pray that your relationship with your son goes from strength to strength.

You've made us laugh and you've made us cry. You've inspired us with your courage and wisdom and the support you've given to this thread has been priceless.

Your D must be desperate to give you a hug Nicegranny it's been awful for her to witnessed your suffering and be so far away. You must be counting the days.

DerbyshireLass you are right we are strong,proud and fierce women. Having the support of eachother on this thread means we can face whatever life throws at us.

I know I am not the same woman my son knew. Neither is he the son I knew either.

But the fact is I like this new me and know my family and friends do to. So some good has come out of all this upset and cruelty.

Always try to find a positive from a negative no matter how small or silly.
It's the way I get through everyday without love of my life. It's what has kept me going all these years on my own. And I will continue to do so.

Have a good evening everyone and keep warm . ?

I'm fine alsorts. Thank you for caring. Work and all the changes have kept me preoccupied lately. Cant wait to be 66. I keep busy with my sewing and crochet and course my allotment too. Hope you are all well xx