SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

No Elless I think we could walk past them and not know who they are. I still see the eldest in my mind as just 8 months old the last time we saw him.

We had very few photo's and I don't want to look at them so they're in the memory box. Same with our ES although we have a ton of them of course, but I don't want to look at them and doubt I ever will again.

I'm sure it was a relief DerbyshireLass we can feel guilty keeping things from someone we love even if the only reason we're doing so is to protect them.

I wonder what a couple of academic snobs would think of their son being a bricklayer. I'm sure they'd be fine with it, I mean they're the perfect ones who are going to be perfect parents, we're the ones who were so crap at it.

And yet, we know we wouldn't care in the slightest as long as they're happy don't we.

Jaws I am so sorry you are facing this and it must have been so heartbreaking when you saw your little grandson and he was telling you he missed you. Awful for you and confusing for him.

Do use this thread whenever you need to ...it provides understanding, support and constructive critical friendship for those estranged and even for those who fear estrangement is coming.

Smileless I think photos are SO hard aren't they. Low contact makes photos very hard, estrangement even more so I imagine!.

I have thought lately perhaps I should put my photos of them away. I often look at the ones off several years ago and think how different it was back then. I haven't decided yet.

Something to consider socksandsocks but not always easy to make a decision.

Maybe think about whether looking at them is helping you or hindering you in moving forward. It could be either or it could be sometimes one and sometimes the other. But don't pressure yourself, take your time and do what is right for you.

I keep my photo's of my grandson's up because they are innocent in all this. I know they won't look the same especially the younger one. But I couldn't bare not seeing their photos. They are still my grandson's and part of my husband. This may seem strange but what has always given me comfort since my husband died is our children and grandsons carry his DNA. It has helped me all these years to know he lives on in them.

We all have to find what gives us comfort and a way to cope especially if you have the double blow of your husband dieing and a child or children decide they no longer want or need you.

I have some lovely videos of my grandson's but can't watch them as I can hear my son's voice talking and laughing. I have a lovely one of an Easter egg hunt they did for the boys in their garden Easter last year and it filled me with joy and laughter when I used to watch it. But can't now as I can hear my son and see and hear my daughter in law. Perhaps in years to come I may feel able to but not yet.

Reading DerbyshireLass post resonanced with me. After my son's letter stating zero contact. Both my daughter and brother told me a lot of the lies my son had told me over the years . They didn't do it to hurt me but to show me how conniving he and my daughter in law have been. Note to anyone don't plaster everything over Facebook if you don't want to be found out. I have never nor wanted to go on Facebook.

My son accused me of using my grandson's as show and tell and yet their every move was documented on Facebook. I hate people being two faced.

Thinking back about the relationship differences between my son and daughter. If my daughter had a problem with something I did or said and vice versa we talked about it and sometimes ended crying in eachother's arms. With my son it was different. He wouldn't say anything at the time but wait weeks before he brought it up. I always said why didn't you say at the time he never had an answer.

I always said he was like his father. And he was. But not anymore. My husband never gave up on his parents he never liked them but said he loved them as they where his mom and dad. His mom's behaviour got worse after my father in law died. She had her good points but all the horrible things she said and did out weighed them. My father in law adored the children perhaps if he had lived longer things would have been different. But it would never erase all the years before.

Think that's the difference between the generations. I was brought up surrounded with family. Every week my parents took my brother and me to see all our aunts,uncles and cousins on both sides. Once my dad met my mom his brother and half siblings lives changed for the better. His youngest brother had downs syndrome . That's the only good thing about his dad and step mom they would never put him in a home. He was born in 1950 and it was normal for families to put disabled children into homes. All the love and attention my dad and his siblings where denied was lavished on him. Everyone adored him. I have fond memories of him . He lived until he was 57. After his mother's death his older sister took over the house so he would still live in the home he always knew. But when she had to tell him my dad had died she said something in him broke and he died 2 months to the day my dad did.

Our children saw their grandparents every week. For all his parents where horrible to us we would never have stopped them seeing their grandchildren. That would have been cruel. Our children still had contact with my mother in law until her death .

My parents never had well paid jobs . But they were rich in love and surrounded us and our children and all the family with it. We brought our children up the way I was brought up. Spoilt with love and attention never money.

By his actions my son and daughter in law are like my in laws. And I had to many years of being treated badly and seeing how much they hurt my husband. I always said if my husband said he was adopted I would have believed him. As he was nothing like them. Except for the big nose?.

I miss my son and grandson's everyday day but zero contact has helped me cope. They can't hurt me more than they have if we have no contact . May seem strange but I had enough from my in laws to last 10 lifetimes. I don't want nor need that from my son and daughter in law.

Unfortunately it is my 3 grandson's who are the losers in all this. But as they are 5,3 and 1 the older 2 will have forgotten me and the youngest never had the chance to met me.

But I am lucky I have my daughter and family plus other family and friends who love and want me. So I am happy.

As usual I have rambled on . But that's me. My brother says I have diarrhoea of the mouth. My brother is very cheeky.

Have the best day you can. I hope those who have been ill are feeling better. ?

Came across this quote.....thought it was so appropriate for us.

"If you don't leave your past in the past, it will destroy your future. Live for what today has to offer, not for what yesterday has taken away".

Wise words. Hopefully I can learn from them.

I actually find it easier to walk away from pain and sorrow, even that caused by my son and DIL, than from all the happiness I shared with my husband and that has been taken away from me.

However, I am starting to realise that whilst all those happy memories have sustained me they are also holding me a prisoner to the past. I cannot keep revisiting those happy times I have to move forward, rebuild my life and create a better future.

Well my today is offering up the flu jab. ?

Can't say Im looking forward to it or having to cope with any ill effects afterwards but I am of course pleased to be getting it - as indeed I will be pleased to get my covid booster in a couple of weeks. I count my lucky stars I live in a country where vaccinations are so freely and readily available.

The second quote I came across this morning tickled my fancy. It's a great way for me to think about DIL when she starts with the emotional blackmail again, when she threatens to cut me off if I don't comply with her demands.

"If you don't like my hotel, feel free to check out any time".

I probably wouldn't use those exact words but I certainly agree with the sentiment. It's a good reminder for me to never kowtow to my DIL ever again.

Nice still autumn day here. The trees look lovely in all their autumn finery.

I've never been one for photo's on show. Just have two, one of DS and one of my GM. It must be difficult when you have pics of your EAC and GC around the place, and an added difficulty deciding whether or not to put the away, and then another difficulty actually doing it.

"diarrhoea of the mouth"how dare that man. We love your rambles *Whiff so be sure to tell him.

I love a good quote DSL and those are good, especially the second one to which I'd add 'but make sure you've settled your account in full'.

Same here and the trees in the cemetery look beautiful.

DerbyshireLass the only side effect I had this year from my flu jab was sore arm for couple of hours and mild headache that went as soon as my arm was fine .

Like the quotes.Having to make a new present and future without our husbands is hard. But I love my new life since moving. Like I said before I didn't realise I had lost me. We get so caught up in all our roles and I always put what others ahead of me. Moving I finally put me first. My daughter said it's about time.

Everything in my home is my choice. Not my furniture as all that's over 20- years old but the new odd bits I have brought. Never knew I like lilac for my bedrooms or ,2 shades of grey tiles for my shower room. Plus all the other things I have had done and colours I have chosen. Even all the plants in the gardens are my choice.

I didn't realise how much I gave way to my husband. Don't get me wrong I would give everything to have him back fit and healthy. And we had a wonderful life together.

But I do like living on my own. I can do what I want went I want . Eat what I want. I have never been a I want person until these last few years. When I was looking for a bungalow I had a list of wants and what I don't want. And lists of what I was willing to do and not do. And found my perfect new home. In a lovely road with wonderful neighbours.

Life is so short unfortunately our estranged children don't realise that.
But one day they will and it will be to late.

End on a happier note. When to a huge Tesco this morning with my daughter and grandson and met one of my old sit fit friends and her husband. It was lovely to see her and see how well she is. She has Parkinson but she was standing without the tremors she used to have. She joined another sit fit group. My daughter said it was nice to finally meet one of the people I talked about. Also got some bargains so had a lovely time.

Smiles I do tell him off. I love walking through the cemetery on the way to the church hall for my exercise class. Beautiful trees and plants . I love all the old tombstones.

I don't have any pictures on display obviously and I went through my picture albums and moved some photos to a separate album, so future generations can see photos of their family and look for resemblances and things like that.

I threw away a lot of photos from my childhood that were tied to bad memories.

There weren't really many photos of my mum with my children as they didn't spend much time with them and declined invites to their birthdays and things like that but those are in the album.

I don't know if anyone will ever be interested in looking at the album but at least it is there if they do want to

"I do tell him off" I should think so Whiff and next time, tell him off from me too.

Well I went for my flu jab.....they said I wasn't in the system and they had no vaccine anyway. ??. Never mind I've booked somewhere else for 30/11. Covid booster is booked for 24/11 so hopefully that should be ok, I know some people are getting both done on the same day but it seems a bit much to me. Anyway get them all done and dusted before Christmas and the real winter sets in,

Whiff - you sound so happy and settled in your new home and new life. I do like my current home, I'm very happy here, however I can foresee a time when both the house and the garden will be too big. I think downsizing will be a smart move. And I'm ready for a change.......

Don't worry about the verbal diarrhoea .....I'm just as bad. And I like your chatty posts, it's like having a virtual coffee Morning, ?

I don't have many photos on display, just one of my husband in my bedroom, Tbh after my husband died I couldn't bear to look at photos for several years, just too painful. I'm ok now though.

Right time for a spot of lunch and then going to tackle some paperwork.

I used to have a lot of photos on show but then I decided to pack them away, the albums are all boxed up in the top of my wardrobe, looking at them just upsets me. I have been tempted to bin them all, all whats stopping me is if someone found them they would post pics in the local newspaper and ask 'do you know these people' .

How true Derbyshirelass your comment,
'It's a terrible thing for a mother to say but I'll say it anyway. I love my eldest son but I don't like him anymore. I don't like what he has become.'
I feel exactly the same towards my daughters and grandaughters, I do also blame older daughter for how my grandaughters have turned out now they are adults, they both heard too much from their parents when they were younger. Hurts even more to think I cared for them since they were babies whilst their mother worked right up to when they were old enough to look after themselves! How little our kids remember what we all did for them.

I had a very productive afternoon getting on top of paperwork DSL I hope you were as successful as I was.

I feel the same, I love our ES "but I don't like him anymore. I don't like what he has become".

Convenient memory loss isn't it, when they can forget all that we've done for them and how much we love them.

Smileless ^Looking back, do you think if you hadn't gone to court you'd have eventually reconnected with your D? Her H and his family were so determined to keep you at bay, I've often wondered if it would have continued anyway, and I hate to think that you might think you'd have reconciled had you not gone to court

He was so venomous against me, when I had been only kind, friendly & generous to him. When I wonder the above, I always think of you Smiles you did everything they asked, you kept away and didn't communicate with them, but still no reconciliation. So high chance I would have come out the same as you.

We've said that for years haven't we Yogin how we both approached it from totally different angles and yet the outcome was sadly exactly the same.

So for me, you going to court didn't make it worse. He was so venomous he was always going to get what he wanted, which was to get rid of you.

I just want you to know that.

Oh dear....it seems it's that old thing .....you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. No matter what we try, the outcome is always the same. That is why I know that ultimately estrangement will be my fate too. It's inevitable. My son probably doesn't realise it but it's only a temporary truce, DIL wont give up until she finally wrenches him away from his family. She won't rest until he is totally isolated and under her
Complete control. Then she will trump up some excuse and cut ties.

As for our ACs convenient memory loss......I have to ask myself, was I too kind, too generous, did I protect my son from the harsh realities of life too much. He probably has no idea of the sacrifices I made for him so that he could have a better childhood then the one I endured.

But that's what parents do, we ensure that our children have more chances and better life choices than we had. It is galling though when they turn on us like this and throw it all back in our faces.

Hey ho, what's done is done and I am not going to torment myself over it. I can't have got it so wrong though because my other son is as sweet and loving as his brother is cold and mean spirited. It can't be all my fault.

I know my DIL has corrupted my son and is poisoning him against his family. He would never have turned his back on us like this without her influence. but even so he has to accept responsibility for what he is doing.

All our EAC will eventually have to learn that actions have consequences. They have broken away all in the name of "freedom". Well freedom has its price.......

My son will have to learn he can't have his cake and eat it too. He doesn't know it yet but my feelings for him will never be the same and he will suffer as a result.

Even if reconciliation does happen for some of us the relationships they tossed away will be permanently weakened and damaged. Some of you may find it easy to forgive and forget but, at the risk of sounding cold and calculating, I know I wont be able to simply gloss over all the hurt and pain he has caused me.

Too much water under the bridge......

I'm in the same camp still love my son but don't like him. Mind you he said that to me in that email. Don't like you mom but love you. He has a funny definition of love. Because what he has done isn't love it's hate .
And I have done nothing for him to hate me .

I was thinking the other day of all the things I have done with my daughter son's that I never did with my son's.

I have minded both my daughter's son's on my own. The youngest at the moment for a hour while they go swimming. But her eldest have mind for up to 4 hours either at theirs or here. I have bottle feed , food feed , changed nappies for both and bathed the older one by myself . Cooked with the eldest which he loves and will with the youngest when he is old enough. Have gardened with the oldest here and at theirs.

I was never left alone with the 2 grandson's I know either at their house or here. Never did any of the things apart from them having lunch here with my son. Silly me I should have realised they didn't trust me with them. But I was happy being with them.

I have no idea what they thought I would do to them. I didn't think anything about it at the time. But it hurts to think they thought I would harm my grandson's. When all I have every done is love and help them all when I could in anyway .

It's my son's and daughter in law's 6th wedding anniversary today. Probably what set me off thinking.

Anyway back to photos. I only have 2 photos of my husband up. One I took in a cottage we rented for a couple of holidays in Scotland it's my favourite pic of him. And a wedding day photo.
For years after he died I couldn't look at photos of him apart from those 2. This year would have been our 40th wedding anniversary in May . I wanted to look at our wedding album but couldn't . But did a couple of days later. And very glad I did.

Calmlocket my daughter remembers all the things we did as parents together and all I have done since widowed. Seems my son has forgotten all the things we did and what I have done since. Funny how our estranged children forget all we have done and re written their lives to make us out to the villains when we are in fact the victims of their cruel and cowardly behaviour.

But we have to be the villains for them to justify what they have done. I would like to think my son feels guilty but doubt it if he really believes all the awful things he wrote about me.

Both our children where brought up the same. Funny how one loves me to bits and trusts me and the other hates me and doesn't trust me one bit.

Having a bit of a wobble day. Never mind will put extra Welly into doing my exercises this afternoon. Catching the earlier bus so I make sure I get there this week.

Going to give myself a talking to and snap out if this. As it annoys me when I feel this way?

DerbyshireLass I will never forgive or forget what my son and daughter in law have done. If my son does every get in touch any trust I had in him he killed. I will never trust him again. But don't expect him to ever contact me again . He wanted zero contact he's got it hope it's made him happy .

Whiff, sending you?

I'm feeling a little low today too. No idea why, nothing has changed. Perhaps that's the problem. I want change now. Just need to be patient .........

Going to have a bit of wardrobe/bedroom sort out later. But first a walk, get some fresh air and try and clear the cobwebs away from my brain and lift my mood.

Sorry you're feeling a little low today DSHI hope your walk lifted your spirits.

We've all protected our children "from the harsh realities of life" those that we knew about, but none of us I'm sure had ever had any experience of the type pf people our AC chose to marry.

How do you protect them and/or prepare them for the possibility of becoming embroiled with such poisonous individuals?

Yes, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't but only in their eyes and their distorted reality of who we are, and their distortion of the truth when it comes to their own lives, is no reflection on us, even though it can feel that way.

I know what you mean Whiff, it annoys me when I feel that way too but it shouldn't. We're entitled to have our bad days and our wobbles, big and small.

You and DSL and PF have more reason to wobble then I do, as does anyone whose widowed I still have the love of my life to share this burden with. You wonderful and courageous ladies have to face this alone.

Its awful when you have one of those low days isn't it Derbyshire I hope you feel better soon, I find a spray of perfume lifts me sometimes because I have different ones for different times. I always remember years ago, I always wear the same perfume around Christmas time, one that a friend bought me for Christmas actually, and one year my son said 'I can smell Christmas' - I loved that.
I don't have photos up because I feel I always have to acknowledge them and smile at them (my potty mind) but when my ES had his son I did root out some pictures of him as a baby/youngster so that he could compare and I asked one of my other sons to give them to him.

That was very thoughtful Elless if only our EAC could reciprocate.

Thanks ladies....well my walk didn't really help. Feeling quite tearful if I'm honest. Hey ho. Will just ride it out like we all do.

I didn't sleep too well last night so I'm probably just overtired and more sensitive today. Going to roll up my sleeves and do a couple of hours decluttering. It might help lift my spirits. And it takes me a few steps nearer to my end goal of getting the house ready to put it on the market next year.

Just have to stay positive. Focus on the end game.