Understanding estrangement

I was heading towards if not estrangement, at the very least a cooling of my relationship with dil and ds1. I found therapy helpful. I was in a bit of denial that it was my fault, but in talking with my therapist I realised I was acting in fear of losing or not having control of my ds1 and in by doing so, pushing both ds1 and dil away.
Therapy might not be the right thing for everyone but it’s been revolutionary for me. It’s also been a life saver during Covid, I haven’t seen either son since the pandemic started like many here and it’s helped me cope. As has talking here and reading others experiences.
I cannot imagine the pain of estrangement. My mil is estranged from close family and seeing her pain is heartbreaking.

As you'll know from your own experience Hilltop estrangement is very tough on the siblings of the one who estranges.

To begin with, our DS kept saying "he'll be back mum" but I just knew in my heart very early on that he wouldn't. They are in touch but I don't know how regularly. DS lives in Aus. and moved over there just a few months after we were estranged.

I think the hardest thing for him is that we didn't 'fix this'. He did, and I think continues to struggle with the fact that we did what was asked of us and stayed away.

For 4 years we continued to live just 15 doors away from them, they moved into the same village just before they married. When our DS knew we'd made the decision to move he was upset because he thought as long as we continued to live so close to them, there was always a possibility that things would change.

The fact that we'd been doing so for 4 years, and that nothing had changed apart from our mental and physical well being, which was gradually being eroded due to the strain of living just down the road, and never knowing if or when we'd see our ES and/or our GC, didn't seem to register.

That was 4.5 years ago and even though he now he sees how much happier and healthier we are because we moved away, I still think he wishes we'd stayed.

I think there'll always be a part of him that 'blames' us, not for the estrangement but for not being able to resolve it but that resolution needs both sides to be willing to talk, listen, understand and compromise.

Sadly for us, that was never going to be the case but it's good to hear that it was for you DillytheGardener and that being estranged from your son was averted.

I haven’t had a lot of resistance or interference with my decision, my husband worries a bit that I might regret it, I won’t. My oldest daughter sees her regularly, the others a couple of times a year, my brother was probably half expecting it, some of my friends were a bit sniffy about it, but those who know her well don’t blame me.
I think if you decide to cut ties with your parent/parents it has to be just about the two of you. Try not to drag anyone else into it, and be prepared for criticism.

It's good to know you have no regrets Sara that I'm sure has enabled you to move on with your life. Of course I regret our son's decision but I have no regrets about his child hood and the kind of parents we were and continue to be to his brother.

It's also good to know that your eldest D sees your mum on a regular basis and your other children still have some contact with her. It's so sad when children are dragged into it and are prevented from seeing their GP's, especially if there was already a relationship prior to the estrangement taking place.

Criticism unfortunately seems to go hand in hand with estrangement, whether you're the one whose been estranged or took the decision to do so.

Smileless
If you can look back on happy times, and know that your son was loved and happy, you will always have your memories.
I always said, that if I’d had just one happy memory of my mother, just one time we laughed together, just one time she said an affectionate or kind word, I couldn’t have done it.

Oh Sara knowing that our ES had so many experiences of us laughing together, being told how much we loved him and how proud we were of him, makes me wonder how he could have done it.

Sending you a (((hug))) x

Thankyou

That's so sad Smileless The thing is, my EC has been brainwashed ( not by his partner, although that can also happen) When people are brainwashed, they forget things and don't think like they used to. I hope one day he/they will be able to think clearly and show he is truly sorry.

I wanted to write mine a letter saying how devastated , heartbroken etc I am, but I read on a couple of estrangement forums that it's not a good idea. Sometimes I want to berate him. Other times I'm relieved that he can't try to brainwash me anymore with the brainwashing he has recieved, but I wouldn't say that either. If I did hear from him, I don't know what I would say but it doesn't seem likely anyway.

So sorry Sara1954 that you dont have any happy memories of your Mum. I've had difficult times with mine, but do remember happy memories as well. She had a bad childhood and wasn't close to her Mum, so had limited contact with her-but was always dutiful and spoke to her on the phone every week at the same time. Looking back, I admire her for ticking the boxes. I wish she had entered therapy before she became a Mum herself because she ended up projecting a lot of her own pain onto me. She's not had a happy life and I keep in touch from a difference. Everyone has a different experience and I hope one day you remember something happy amidst the pain. If not of your Mum, then of someone who cared and loved you.

OnwardandUpward
Thankyou for your kind words.
My dad was a good dad when I was little, very hands on, and we spent all our weekends together. Later illness made him a bit grouchy, but there were always adults in my life who I could turn to if needs be.
Unlike your mum, my mum and gran were joined at the hip. My gran was at our house every single day, and we spent a lot of time at her house.
My mother never had any proper friends, it was just my gran, and that continued till my gran died.
She was never much of a mum to us, but she did have her problems, I wish her well, but I absolutely don’t want to see her again.

Also, for what it’s worth, I think that if your son has been brainwashed, there nothing you can do, but hope he gradually comes to see what’s happened to him.

Thanks Sara, my son has been brainwashed, but not by his partner. It started with Qanon and progressed from there to complete paranoia of everything and everyone. When we all got vaccinated it was the end. He's not in a good place and has pushed away his whole family. I am concerned and don't know what to do. My Mum said "tell him he's wrong!" but I didn't because I know he would dig his heels in harder if I do.

I'm glad you have good memories of your Dad! I have mixed memories of both, but am able to remember the good ones more as I get older. Maybe your Gran was controlling your Mum and making her choose her over you? My friend's Mum tries to compete with her Grand daughter for attention, its very unhealthy and my friend is moving away because of it.

OnwardandUpward
I don’t think my gran was controlling, I remember spending lots of time at her house with my cousin, I think a lot was covered up that I’ll never know about now.
I actually feel sorry for my mother, I don’t think she had a happy life, but sadly, I don’t like her.

Its good if she wasn't controlling and good you got to spend time with your cousin.
I never actually thought about liking my Mother... she's just my Mother. I'm not actually sure she likes me either, but I am low contact with her because she's not local and I want to stay in contact because she's the only mother I'll have. Hopefully she doesnt say anything too damaging and I can cope ok.

OnwardandUpward
I think for a lot of people it’s important to maintain a relationship with a parent, no matter how tenuous.
You will always know you tried your best.

Scentia, Your parents should be arrested for what happened to you. It makes me unbearably sad that any child suffers abuse, but your own daughter! You are 100 per cent right away from them. I hope you have the peace and happiness now with your own family, you so deserve it.
I do wonder that those who estrange like Sara and Armadillo because there moms thought they were good but wasn’t, if their moms had good relationships with their mothers or they themselves were controlled by them.
It’s hard to get your head round how any parent doesn’t want the best for their children, they always come first. I wonder how my daughter views me? I love her so much but she seems to dislike me and can’t give a reason.
From the point of view of those that choose to estrange, any contact such as cards or a letter is unwelcome, which I must admit I did, mostly I think because I couldn’t understand why. I can see now how it’s kinder to let them go and try to make a new life like Whiff and Smileless have.. I thought of how I could put things right, how could I change, when in truth I couldn’t. It’s strange how long it takes to finally admit it.

Yes Sara, I don't have many friends to be honest as I was bullied/controlled by my parents and then ended up in an abusive relationship where I was not allowed friends. I lost many old friends from my past at that time, sadly. So my parents are now old and I've had therapy to stand up to them. They need me more than I need them, so they don't give me problems anymore. If they do try to put me down or be nasty, I usually distance for a while or just stand up for myself (a new trick I learned way too late in life)

So sorry Scentia for your abusive parents and trauma
You do deserve a reason at least Allsorts, so maybe it's something you can work on or maybe it isn't but to leave you hanging is dreadful. With mine, it's not anything I've done except get the vaccine. But I see that it's MY body and my choice what I do with it and that anyone who loves me SHOULD accept that and not try to force me to do what they say or threaten me that I will lose them if I don't obey. When I was with his father for years I was totally controlled but that's not me now.

Why do AC try to control us and use their kids as weapons?!

When it comes down to it, many of our relationships seem to be held by a thread.
I try very hard to be nothing like my mother, that’s not to say I haven’t made a ton of mistakes, and of course my children may find me irritating in other ways!

It's true Sara. Sometimes I feel we are all only here by a thread anyway- just a breath away from this world and the next. Of course we will all have made mistakes (and our children will make mistakes as parents too because that's human nature) Except every generation thinks they can do better than the last! Maybe we do in some ways.

I don't think I am like my parents at all, which offends them. It would be nice if everyone could just accept people how they are without trying to force them to be something they are not. I certainly don't want to force my kids to do anything they aren't comfortable with, but then I don't expect them to try and coerce me either. I don't accept coercion off anyone these days, but I haven't always been this strong.

CafeAuLait, Your observations on first posting on here are I think near the mark. Many things come into play and people change throughout their lives. As a mother I didn’t want to let go, to things were and not are. It takes some of us little time to understand the full implications of it, it’s too big, others like me hold on to old ideas hoping for a long time for connecting again. I don’t think you can ever go back though, you can’t ever have a relationship where there has been so much hurt, it’s living with that and making a new life for yourselves you have to focus on,

Allsorts
I agree that you can never go back, it would take an exceptional person to forgive and forget, it would always be there between you.

I think I can forgive because it must be a very unhappy person who turns to abusive behaviours but I can't forget it all as it has made too many changes to me. If my mum ever got better I could forgive her but I wouldn't want a relationship as there just isn't one any more. I just need to stop feeling guilty about that.

Armadillo you have done nothing to feel guilty about. It's your mom who should feel guilty. But she won't. You took a hard decision to get away from your mom. The amount of courage and strength that took I admire greatly. Time to let go of that guilt. You have the rest of your life to look forward to, a family that needs and loves you they are your priority.

I will never forgive my son, never trust him again and never forget.

You saying you could forgive makes you a better person than me.

No more looking back. Look to the future no more what ifs. You deserve a guilt free life. Be the mom your own never was to you. You will be happier and healthier . Lock that guilt away today. ?

Thank you you are always so kind

I do think forgiving someone who is an abuser can be done, for your own peace of mind- but it doesn't mean you have to have them back in your life. Forgiving doesn't have to mean forgetting....

Armadillo
You are a better person than me as well.
I think I can forgive, because I know my mother was damaged in her own way, even though nothing was ever explained or talked about..
My dad once told me he stopped her from causing me serious injury, it seemed so bizarre that I used to think he was having a joke with me, but of course I realise differently now.
So I can forgive, but forgetting is a lot, lot harder.