Why do I torture myself

Smileless2012

You're welcome Elless. The fact that she completely ignored you following your son's estrangement of you when you offered her a lift, speaks volumes to me.

She could have politely declined your offer.

We don't know if she had been threatened with estrangement if she dared to speak to OP. She might be nasty, she might have been worried about being seen with the OP.

No I agree that "we don't know if she'd been threatened with estrangement if she dared to speak to the OP" theworriedwell but if that were the case, would she take an even bigger risk, by pausing outside the OP's house with the GC, so she could see them?

I doubt it.

I'm not sure it's really worth worrying or wondering about people's motives. That is a them problem.

Best to just acknowledge it happens, it hurts, and find a way to handle it so that if they are searching for satisfaction, they don't get it.

So glad it was a relief to you Smileless

Did you ever hear from anyone if they heard your ES reaction to you moving? His treatment of you was so awful.

We don't know if she had been threatened with estrangement if she dared to speak to OP. She might be nasty, she might have been worried about being seen with the OP.

If she had been threatened with estrangement if seen with the OP why would she keep stopping and pausing outside the OPs house when with the Grandchildren? Who knows! We never will!

Elless that must have been very painful for you and difficult to deal with

Not really OnwardandUpward. Our DS thought it would be a mistake. Bless him, he thought if we stayed something would change but we'd been living just down the road for 4 years and the only thing that was changing was me.

I was so miserable. I couldn't sleep and began to hate being in the home I'd once loved. We bought a static caravan and were spending more and more time there because I couldn't bear to be in the house anymore.

I was becoming desperate TBH so we put the house on the market and started looking for some where to move too. Mr. S. didn't want to leave and I was worried about how him agreeing may affect our relationship, so we took it off again, but I just couldn't stand it any longer.

Never knowing if and when we'd see our ES and/or our GC so we made the decision to move away. I will always be so thankful to my husband that he agreed to the move and like me, he is happy here.

Because we initially took the house off the market, I did wonder if our ES thought it was a bluff, that we hoped he'd get in touch but that never entered my mind.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was shocked when we did leave the home where he was raised. There's a part of me that thinks the fact that we 'stayed away' as requested was a shock to him too.

'Be careful what you wish for' often springs to mind.

Wow, perhaps it was a shock to your ES Smileless. I assumed that perhaps the village was close knit and that others in the village may have thought he was a truly awful son. I'm sure they must have thought so.
It sounds like your static caravan was a godsend in the beginning and it's so good you were both able to settle in your new home.

Smileless2012

No I agree that "we don't know if she'd been threatened with estrangement if she dared to speak to the OP" theworriedwell but if that were the case, would she take an even bigger risk, by pausing outside the OP's house with the GC, so she could see them?

I doubt it.

Who knows, maybe she felt it was less of a risk of being seen, maybe as time passed she felt sorry for the OP and it was all she could do.

It could be nasty it might not, we don't know but I think it is nicer to think the best particularly for the OP. It must be horrible to think it is being done as a nasty thing but much less upsetting to give the other grandmother the benefit of the doubt and think it might just be a nice thing.

He did complain once to his father that we'd turned people in the village and particularly the Methodist chapel against him OnwardandUpward.

Of course we hadn't and it never entered his head that if people had changed toward him, it was because of what he'd done. Or maybe it did and he couldn't face it.

I do see that the other GM may well have been in a difficult position theworriedwell. If they can do it to the OP then they can do it to her too.

I know if I were in that position I'd hate being involved with my GC knowing that their other GM wasn't allowed to be.

Actions do have consequences! Smileless it amazes me when "some people" think they can do whatever they like, without any consequences. I'm sure the chickens will come home to roost. Good that the local people knew what he had done. It does sound like he may not be very self reflective- or as they say "The truth hurts!". Hopefully one day he will have a full realisation of the truth of what he has done and face the consequences before it's too late to regret forever his decision.

I too would be worried to be the other GM. I'd be waiting for the other shoe to drop. Anyone who can try to break the bond between their child and someone who loves them is seriously lacking in empathy. It's not fair on the kids or us.

This is why I cannot understand my family members estranging children. Surely I'm not so awful they can't be polite to me to keep in touch with them.

Perhaps it's for the best for me and my children not to have any contact with any of them.

I love children and find it very sad to not see any neices or nephews. Thankfully I estranged before any existed or it would have been really hard on us.

My children really didn't know extended family at all, we were left out of most family gatherings and honestly, I didn't really notice it until I looked back with new eyes. I had not really seen them very much in my childhood either.

It's amazing what you can accept as normal.

You'd never feel secure OnwardandUpward and who wants a relationship like that. Not me.

That's so hard and awful Violetsky so sorry to hear that. It's very sad for your kids and their cousins too.

It's true Smileless I don't know how I'd ever trust them again. Me and DH have discussed it in case they turn up at some point unaware of the way their behavior has impacted on us. We decided that if they do turn up, we will tell them exactly how they have made us feel and how it's impacted on our health. Not sure if that's the right thing or what others feel? We decided that if they do want to re establish contact we would have to be sure that they would actually value our role as Grandparents and not consider discarding us again.

In our situation we are the only GP. So our GC do not have GP at the moment.

Smileless2012

He did complain once to his father that we'd turned people in the village and particularly the Methodist chapel against him OnwardandUpward.

Of course we hadn't and it never entered his head that if people had changed toward him, it was because of what he'd done. Or maybe it did and he couldn't face it.

I do see that the other GM may well have been in a difficult position theworriedwell. If they can do it to the OP then they can do it to her too.

I know if I were in that position I'd hate being involved with my GC knowing that their other GM wasn't allowed to be.

The trouble with saying you wouldn't be involved if other GPs aren't is that it leave the children being the ones who lose out, they effectively have no GPs and maybe other options for childcare aren't as good for the children. So personally I'd still see them but fortunately I don't have that issue, half a dozen grandchildren and see them all.

As I said upthread I currently have teenage GS living with me as he is now estranged from his mother due to his step father's behaviour and mother taking his side. It is a horrible situation with her contacting me to ask about him and I have to be careful what I say as he wants his privacy respected. To be honest I could do without it, I hate conflict and I find myself stuck in the middle.

TheWorriedWell my GC are in the situation of having contact with no GP's or any relatives at all.

That's very difficult for you. How painful for your GS and probably best in that situation for him to live with you if he doesn't get along with his stepdad. If he's under 16, you might have to give her some info, but if he's older it might be up to him to decide whether he wants to give information or not. Perhaps there is a charity that can give you some advice on how to navigate this tricky situation.

That must be very difficult for you theworriedwell, great that your GS had you to go too but it must be hard when your D id asking after him.

Is there no direct contact between mother and son?

IMO what you and your DH have decided if you are contacted is the right course of action OnwardandUpward. You can't ignore what's happened, pretend everything's OK and that you haven't been affected physically and mentally by being estranged.

That's what I would do, if I was prepared to see our ES at all, and I'm not sure I would.

That's true Smileless . I have to say, I am actually concerned for the upbringing of my GC as they have no contact with anyone in the family and most likely no one at all apart from their parents. I'm not sure I want to go through it all again and yet I am concerned for my GC who have absolutely no one- so I think I would sacrifice my own wellbeing to try and be there in their lives, if the opportunity arose. Perhaps from a distance at least... I remember how important my Grandparents were to me (and I had two sets) and also loved seeing my cousins and wider family as a kid. It just seems awful to be completely cut off and be deprived of knowing anyone!

theworriedwell I think in your situation I would try to be as impartial as possible.

If you say anything negative about his mum it could backfire and vice versa.

I think I'd try and keep the rules for him the same as his mum's home if they aren't unreasonable. Otherwise he may take his new freedom into taking advantage territory. I still remember being that age!

A bit of a minefield really and I can see why it is stressful for you but why you couldn't turn him away.

Yes that is true Violetsky I would try to avoid talking about them, but point them both at each other and try to get them to converse. If he is still under 16, I think a short weekly meeting with his Mum in your home would not be unreasonable as it's the stepdad he has a problem with and I assume all was fine before the stepdad moved in?
I would try to side step any kind of information sharing and encourage them to try and mend their bridges and build on their relationship. You might need to refuse to get involved.

OnwardandUpward

TheWorriedWell my GC are in the situation of having contact with no GP's or any relatives at all.

That's very difficult for you. How painful for your GS and probably best in that situation for him to live with you if he doesn't get along with his stepdad. If he's under 16, you might have to give her some info, but if he's older it might be up to him to decide whether he wants to give information or not. Perhaps there is a charity that can give you some advice on how to navigate this tricky situation.

He's 17, in the middle of A levels. My son left the mother as he couldn't cope with her temper and demands. The children were very little then and I have to say she was very good with them. The problem is she has to be in control so it has been difficult as the children got older and weren't allowed to go out with friends, had to dress how she wanted, have the hair cut she wanted. Not easy with a 14, 15, 16 year old. I think you have to let them have some control, obviously within boundaries and incrementally as they show they are responsible. So the relationship with her was difficult, the step father threatening to get physical didn't help followed by him trying to punch GS and his mother taking stepfathers side although she wasn't there.

I know I wasn't there either but the other children have all told the exact same story so I think he is being honest. Doesn't really matter as he won't go back.

VioletSky

theworriedwell I think in your situation I would try to be as impartial as possible.

If you say anything negative about his mum it could backfire and vice versa.

I think I'd try and keep the rules for him the same as his mum's home if they aren't unreasonable. Otherwise he may take his new freedom into taking advantage territory. I still remember being that age!

A bit of a minefield really and I can see why it is stressful for you but why you couldn't turn him away.

I won't keep the same rules. I'm afraid trying to tell a 17 year old he can't go out with friends and can't pick his own clothes is wrong in my book so I can't enforce them and don't want to.

I don't run her down to him and censor her comments about him so as not to inflame the situation.

So here I am trying to fill a hungry 17 year up, how do they eat so much? Losing my spare room and heaven knows what the electric and water bills will be. At least he's clean, he loves a shower.

I am trying to make him more independent, he just hasn't got a clue but not his fault as he hasn't been allowed to do anything for himself. Sometimes leaving them to get on with it is a loving thing to do in my book. Imagine him off to uni next year without a clue about cooking, choosing clothes, banking (he's never had a penny pocket money) so first thing we've got him a bank account and debit card. He's had a job for a few weeks so we are making big strides. Just that we are trying to do in weeks or months what should have happened gradually over years.

I'm hoping she will realise her way isn't working and the younger ones have a more normal experience.

OnwardandUpward

That's true Smileless . I have to say, I am actually concerned for the upbringing of my GC as they have no contact with anyone in the family and most likely no one at all apart from their parents. I'm not sure I want to go through it all again and yet I am concerned for my GC who have absolutely no one- so I think I would sacrifice my own wellbeing to try and be there in their lives, if the opportunity arose. Perhaps from a distance at least... I remember how important my Grandparents were to me (and I had two sets) and also loved seeing my cousins and wider family as a kid. It just seems awful to be completely cut off and be deprived of knowing anyone!

Children just know what is their normal. I have a large extended family and I've never known any of them. As a child, it's just how it was. I had my parents and that was it.

I don't think this is the ideal situation but it's only now that I'm older that I am sorry I didn't have that. Otherwise it was just what I knew and normal. Maybe this reassures you that kids can be okay and not feel the loss of what they do not know?

Yes that is reassuring and makes sense CafeAuLaitLait when they've never known family members. That said I've read stories of adult GC seeking out the GP's they never knew as children.

Of course where there has been a relationship with GP's and that is suddenly taken away, that must be very difficult and upsetting for the children involved.

It would only be upsetting in cases where children have lost a bond with good loving grandparents Smileless2012. My children have had no impact except relief.

It is amazing and incredibly sad just how many people are dealing with the loss of estrangement. We only get one life and so much of it is being wasted on being miserable/made to feel miserable. I wonder if this has got worse over the years/ People lived nearer to each other as a matter of course so were far more involved with family. We are constantly told we are so much better off now, but I think in many ways we are not.