Why do I torture myself

Quote 3nannny6: "As a GP what amount of contact is expected from a married AC? I would like at least once a week to see my GS and if I got more that would be a bonus to me and also maybe to get more perhaps meant that my AC was not too busy and could bring my GS more than once a week."

This sounds overwhelming to me as an AC. Unless some visits are half hour stopping over for a cup of tea and quick chat. Full day visits, or even half day visits every week, with friends and other relatives and another set of parents to fit in, I feel burned out just thinking about it. Let alone more than once a week!

"As a GP what amount of contact is expected from a married AC? I would like at least once a week to see my GS and if I got more that would be a bonus to me and also maybe to get more perhaps meant that my AC was not too busy and could bring my GS more than once a week."

Once a week, depending on the AC's lives, could be ok or too much. Every family is different
For me, it would get old fast

Now, the bonus of bringing the kids to you - that's too much for two reasons: more visits AND the parents go to you vs you to them to make it easier.

"As a GP what amount of contact is expected from a married AC?"

Depends on the AC really. Everyone is different, have different needs, different ways of parenting. different lives, different families. I don't think one can "agree" a generalalised "AC expectation" really 3nanny6. Bit I know it is hard when one's own personal preferences/expectations are not met isn't it.

Just the thought of fitting in the child activities, and church for those who go, and catching up with housework, preparing for the week ahead, the garden, pets, friends, family and some quiet time with the DH and children and, if I'm lucky, some quiet time - then having any family member, GP or otherwise, want to catch up every week at minimum. I would relocate to get a break from that if I had to. That's overwhelming to me.

Elless Have you considered that DS's MiL stands outside your house with DGC so that you get a chance to see them regularly. She could be under strict instructions not to contact you or let you talk to children or she too will be cut out of their lives and this is her way round it.

I always try to look for a positive interpretation for such events, ever since i got really upset and angry at something my sister said to me, only to find that what she actually meant was something totally anodyne and she was then upset because I had thought she would say what I thought she said.

Putting a positive spin on negative comments, can also set the person wanting to be nasty on the back foot, because they meant something nasty and you then respond positively by thanking them for their kind comment.

Remember, as with bullies, and bullying is what some estrangements are, the bully is looking to see you sad and upset and begging for mercy. Refusing to show that you are upset, or even seeming to notice the bad behaviour, rather spoils their fun.

I am not being facetious, but there is more than one way of handling problems like you face. For the time being just concentrate on your operation and getting well and be glad that support of one son.

Great post yesterday @ 19.37 Madgran.

It would be a sad world wouldn't it if there was no thought about how our words and actions impact on others, because if we upset someone, and we all do don't we, it's not our responsibility, it's up to them how they feel.

In all relationships, communication is key. Parents and their AC by communicating their needs and expectations in a mature way can in the main avoid any problems of for example, expectations not being met. This goes for a p's expectations of how often they see their AC and any GC, and an AC's expectations of how much assistance they may get with regard to child care.

That's an interesting thought M0nica. I can understand Elless seeing her m.i.l's. behaviour as deliberately cruel and provocative. I felt the same when our ES would walk past our house with our GC before we moved.

I'd never considered it from the perspective you've suggested; definitely food for thought.

Thanks for your kind words Vioeletsky and Smileless

Owning the truth, being able to grow through pain and realising that the way people treat you is not always about you. I'm making the best of things. I'm close to one of my kids and have a great husband. I won't anymore be blamed for things that aren't my fault. I'm getting better at coping with the barbed comments from my Mother and hoping through therapy that I never become her.

There is definitely food for thought, that is something that you don't think of M0nica but this woman isn't a nice person, a while after my son stopped contacting us I saw her at the local supermarket when she was waiting for a taxi, I pulled the car up and wound the window down to offer her a lift and she literally shoved her nose in the air and turned her back on me, we have also texted her husband (he's a painter and decorator who has done work for us in the past) to ask him to do some work and we were ignored.

I appreciate, that this may not be a kindness in this case, but I am very conscious how my misunderstanding nearly destroyed my relationship with my sister, so, now, I always start from the 'not intended to be nasty' position and go from there.

I don't know what I would do if I bumped into family that estranged me when I estranged my mother.

Some live very close and its a miracle it hasn't happened in all this time.

I think I would say hello and be polite but I am guessing they would ignore us as they estranged my children by estranging me.

I think if it had been the other way around, I would have respected my siblings decision and carried on with them as normal.

They are a lot younger than I am and we didn't really grow up together.

"realising that the way people treat you is not always about you" is spot on OnwardandUpward and you're positive and courageous outlook certainly reflects the 'name' you post under.

Clearly she wasn't stopping outside your home for your sake Elless but to rub salt in the wound; what an unpleasant women.

If we saw our ES before we moved, he'd cross the road and get hold of his mobile 'phone and give the appearance of texting. Not that I would have spoken to him anyway by that time, as there was nothing to be gained and I certainly didn't want to hear anything he had to say, based on what had been said and written previously.

Mr. S. did bump into him in the village shop. He was polite and friendly, saying 'hello' to our GS but not saying he was his grand father. He arrived at our house about half an hour later accusing his father of stalking him.

Honestly, some of the things he's said and done would be funny if they weren't so tragic.

CafeAuLait just commenting on your post at 23.09 today and I will try to put my wording a little better. I did say I would like to see my GS once a week if the parents could manage it but that is not written in stone they have to. Also that does not have to be all day they could just drop in when passing for a cup of tea.

CafeAulait you quoted you would feel overwhelmed with once a week never mind anymore and that is your right if that is what you want as we all have to make arrangements work for us.

Last week I had two visits with my GS one they popped into me and the other one I went to them as they were going shopping and they left the baby with me as he had his vaccinations the day before and they gave him a quiet day actually he was totally good and was not even feverish.
In fact on Sunday they even asked me to watch the baby for one and half hours as they were going to the gym, I said yes but at the last minute her sister said she wanted to see the baby so she done it.
I was only too happy to spend time with my precious GS and like yourself I too have shedloads of stuff to do like shopping, cleaning gardening, pets and had to change an arrangement with two cousins as there was no time to fit them in last week.
We all make priorities at the top of our list and mine would always win hands down for the GC and the pets I have a full life just like my AC.

Violetsky I also worry that I may bump into my daughter with the GC she lives fairly close and it is a miracle it has not happened recently, although something that Smileless2012 posted about her ES saying when he passed her one day he took hold of his mobile phone to give the appearance of texting has now given me an idea that I could do that and pretend I had not seen her. I think my daughter would call out to me though and find something to say to rub salt in my wounds,

Wouldn’t it make more sense just to assume the other grandparent is simply walking, and has no thought or concern as to what path she takes? Same with the Twitter issue- I’m going to guess the OPs son doesn’t know or care if his mother is reading his Twitter feed or not. Contrary to what some may believe- people who are estranged can just choose to exist in the world without considering or making it their concern what their estranged family knows or doesn’t know. I’m sure theoretically my estranged ILs have seen pictures of my kids. I don’t care. If we lived locally and we passed their house- it would be because that was the road we needed to take.

3nanny6 I did see my mother once but she turned her back and went the other way which was a relief at the time. I haven't seen any other family members though. I think I'd probably do what my mother did, not to be rude but because I was too shocked to handle it in the moment. I'd like to think I would say hello, maybe if I plan for that, that's what will happen.

The OP's son's m.i.l. doesn't just walk past her house, she stands there and IMO her sense that this is deliberate is supported by the fact that when the OP offered her a lift not long after she'd been estranged by her son, his m.i.l. totally ignored her.

I don't think anyone doubts that some "who are estranged can just choose to exit in the world without considering or making it their concern what their estranged family does or doesn't know" but not all.

More than 7 years into our estrangement I received an email from our ES following the death of my mother. A few week ago, more than 8 years into our estrangement his father received one following the death of his mother.

Our house was near the end of a cul de sac, no through road so no where to go apart from a walk through the fields which wasn't suitable foe the push chair our ES was pushing at the time.

Can't begin to imagine why that was a road he "needed to take" on more than one occasion.

I don't see why not 3nanny and you could also pretend to be speaking to someone if that were to happen, than she may not call out to you.

Honestly, the things that go through our minds because of the way our AC have treated us, it's enough to drive you insane isn't it.

Elless

Hi everyone, I don't want to approach DiL because I think she is part of all this, before they married she knew I thought the world of her, I told her if I'd had a daughter I would want her to be like her. Her mother (son's MiL) purposely walks past (and pauses) in front of my house with my grandson because she looks after him two days a week. Unfortunately I can see both of their houses from mine so I can't avoid them.

Oh, that must be awful for you, Elless.

So sorry Smileless for your painful and ridiculous accusations by your son of Mr S "stalking" him. Honestly, in a small village where everyone uses the same shop! No wonder you chose to move away from such sadness.

That's so painful and awful for you Elless I'm so sorry at the vindictiveness . How can the other Granny act so unkindly? What a horrible thing to do. It could so easily be the other Granny they turn on next. You would think she would realise this and have some compassion.

3nanny6

CafeAuLait just commenting on your post at 23.09 today and I will try to put my wording a little better. I did say I would like to see my GS once a week if the parents could manage it but that is not written in stone they have to. Also that does not have to be all day they could just drop in when passing for a cup of tea.

CafeAulait you quoted you would feel overwhelmed with once a week never mind anymore and that is your right if that is what you want as we all have to make arrangements work for us.

Last week I had two visits with my GS one they popped into me and the other one I went to them as they were going shopping and they left the baby with me as he had his vaccinations the day before and they gave him a quiet day actually he was totally good and was not even feverish.
In fact on Sunday they even asked me to watch the baby for one and half hours as they were going to the gym, I said yes but at the last minute her sister said she wanted to see the baby so she done it.
I was only too happy to spend time with my precious GS and like yourself I too have shedloads of stuff to do like shopping, cleaning gardening, pets and had to change an arrangement with two cousins as there was no time to fit them in last week.
We all make priorities at the top of our list and mine would always win hands down for the GC and the pets I have a full life just like my AC.

3nanny6, I see how it works for you and that's quite different from what visits entail for me. Two of the visits you describe are you babysitting to help the parents out and it sounds like you are close enough to do that.

Visits from grandparents for me involve an event that takes up my whole day where I am expected to entertain them and provide lunch and afternoon tea. I can't do that every week or more for multiple sets of people, so different expectations make the difference.

Family will always come first for me and part of that is focusing on my immediate family as I'm still parenting older children at home. They need time where their home isn't always full of people and for me to focus on them too. It's easier when kids are younger to have more visitors too, I think.

It was as you say a ridiculous accusation OnwardandUpward. I really thought it would be painful to leave the village where we'd lived for nearly 30 years, and the home where we raised our family, but the relief was immense and we've never looked back.

DiscoDancer1975

I’m sure there are many difficult DILs out there, but they can only be like this if the husband is agreeable.

My own MIL was a nightmare. I know she blamed me for the eventual estrangement, but problems between her and my husband started long before he met me, and we were 16 when we met. He was only too glad to be rid of her, but she would never accept that.

With my own family, one DIL can be...let’s say, sensitive. I’m always guarded around her. We have never seen as much of them as I would like, but I know my son is happy with it. He must be. Otherwise he would change it.

Elless, you just have to live your life as best you can. The more you push, the further away they will go. Concentrate on those who love and want to be with you...and your own health.

I hope your operation goes well.

I hope you don't mind me quoting you but the fact this started so early for you DH jumped out at me.

I am "in the middle" so to speak at the moment. Teenage GS has had a difficult relationship with step father and has arrived at my door with all his clothes. He says he hates his mother, she has taken his step fathers side and he never wants to see her again.

Since she broke up with my son I've worked really hard to bite my tongue and maintain relationship with her because of the children. My son moved away for work so isn't around much. I can't turn GS away, he wouldn't go home so where would he end up, would he drop out of sixth form? On the other hand she will blame me for taking him in and will it cause problems with the younger children. It is very difficult.

Thank you Smiles for the support on the thread from OutsideDave I'd love to be able to dismiss some peoples actions like that but when you know them in person you know what they are up to.
I appreciate everyone else's kind words on here though it really helps

M0nica

Elless Have you considered that DS's MiL stands outside your house with DGC so that you get a chance to see them regularly. She could be under strict instructions not to contact you or let you talk to children or she too will be cut out of their lives and this is her way round it.

I always try to look for a positive interpretation for such events, ever since i got really upset and angry at something my sister said to me, only to find that what she actually meant was something totally anodyne and she was then upset because I had thought she would say what I thought she said.

Putting a positive spin on negative comments, can also set the person wanting to be nasty on the back foot, because they meant something nasty and you then respond positively by thanking them for their kind comment.

Remember, as with bullies, and bullying is what some estrangements are, the bully is looking to see you sad and upset and begging for mercy. Refusing to show that you are upset, or even seeming to notice the bad behaviour, rather spoils their fun.

I am not being facetious, but there is more than one way of handling problems like you face. For the time being just concentrate on your operation and getting well and be glad that support of one son.

My immediate thought was she was doing it to let OP see the children. It could be either way I suppose but I'd see it like you.

You're welcome Elless. The fact that she completely ignored you following your son's estrangement of you when you offered her a lift, speaks volumes to me.

She could have politely declined your offer.