SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

I pray you, in your letters,
When you shall these unlucky deeds relate,
Speak of me as I am; nothing extenuate,
Nor set down aught in malice. Then must you speak
Of one that lov'd not wisely but too well;
Of one not easily jealous, but being wrought,
Perplex'd in the extreme. (Othello, Act V, scene ii)

Thats very appropriate P.F.?
Whiff...could you please tell me were you ordered the book from please, I've tried a couple of usual places but it just comes up unavailable. Thank you.

You are all so kind and understanding on here and I thank you so much.

My heart is sore. Today my youngest son called briefly as he lives and works away. I dont know what I would do without him. He has a different father from his older brother and my estranged daughter. The lad phones every weekend and he will be here to spend christmas. When I had him my mam (long since gone) said that he was sent for a reason as I was nearly 40 and only 22 and 24 when I had the older two. He wasn’t planned but he is much loved as I tried to do with the others. My eldest son speaks only when I get in touch with him but never thinks to call to see how I am. It is always down to me. I always try and arrange to see them but the last 2 years have been hard with the lock down. They would never dream of just dropping in even though I have asked them to many times.

I waived my youngest son off this afternoon and the tears just wouldn’t stop. I’ve been trying to keep busy this afternoon with my watercolour painting.

Sending love to you all.

Bridie22 got it off Amazon .

Thanks Whiff.

Thanks PF for the Shakespeare quote.

PP. sending you these.?. Your youngest son sounds lovely. It's similar here. My eldest son is like yours. I only realised recently when I stopped and thought about it that it was always me who did the running. I could be lying dead on the kitchen floor for weeks on end for all he knew. Sobering thought.

My younger son, again like yours, is the complete opposite. He is in contact with me every day, even if it's just to send me a joke or pictures of his cat.

Onward......how awful for you for your son trying to control you and get you to make financial decisions you weren't comfortable with. You did exactly the right thing though, even if it was the final cause for estrangement. That must have made it all the more a really butter pill to swallow, knowing that your son would try and abuse you financially.

I know it's probably no comfort to you but I think you dodged a bullet there.

Sorry. Bitter pill, not butter.

What book has been recommended? I bought Done with Crying in the immediate aftermath. She too has been through estrangement

Abandoned Parents " the devils dilema" by sharon ann widley

Thank you Bridie

DiamondLily, another evil DIL here, except I didn't estrange my MIL, quite the opposite. I just get blamed for the eventual outcome.

I read the free sample of that book. It ends shortly after the daughter who told her ill mother to die. That is a pretty extreme example (or at least I hope it is!). If my MIL reached out and told me something like that, I would say I was sorry to hear it, wish her the best and make sure my DH considered his position and how he would feel when she passed.

Morning all finally read all your posts. Shows how much this thread is needed as it's heading towards 200 posts already. So much pain has been and continuing to be inflected on parents. I know we live in a throw away society now. But when did it become acceptable to throw good parents away ? Estrangement has to long been a taboo subject . My daughter in law did a really good character assassination of both me and my daughter on Reddit. And people believed her. No point in fighting back against that. As it would only give her more ammunition.

If the press called what Harry has done to his dad and the Queen estrangement then may be then people would realise the extent of this growing problem.

Would people protest against what children do to their parents or do environment issues only matter?

Pain not so bad today. I get what my sister in law calls brain fog it's a thing MS suffers get when your body is hurting so much your brain can't cope with anything except the pain and making your body work. Well my brain fog made me forget to take one of my blood thinners yesterday only realised it when I went to take one with my dinner. Should have had the first one with breakfast. Like my neurologist says my brain and body are out of sync. Wouldn't mind but the the tablet was on my table by my side in my daily pill box. Made doubly sure I had it this morning.

I recommend all estranged parents read Abandoned parents: The devils dilemma by Sharon A Wildey. I am half way through it. Normally I wouldn't read this sort of book but it talks about all the things we parents have mentioned on this thread from the view point of how it feels to us parents. Reading it and thinking back all the warning signs where there but like I have said because I lived over 100+ miles away any time spent with my son and daughter in law to be and then grandsons I was happy.

Can't thank Smiles and Yogin enough for recommending this book.

I feel I need to address someone who has appeared on this thread who is not an estranged parent. Who is a banned poster who was let back on Gransnet under a new name. Most of you know who I mean. And before you go bleating to Gransnet and get my post deleted they know full well my feelings about you. And are keeping an eye on you. On another thread you have said estranged children must have been abused by their parents for them to turn against their parents. Like parents on this thread I didn't abuse my son in any shape or form and said that on that other thread. But of course you don't listen and your click backed you up.

Everything you write goes back to abuse. Stick to threads that dealt with that and leave this thread.

Estranged parents come here because of what their child or children have done. Because they get help , support, understanding and friendship over this they are then able to talk about what happened to them during their childhoods. And what their own parents did to them.

I was lucky I had a wonderful childhood and parents that loved and cherished my brother and me. My mom was all family.

My dad and husband had rotten childhoods. And have already talked about how my husband would never give up on his parents no matter what they said and did to us. I continued by to look after his mom for 11 years after his death and I hated her.

I wonder if my son ever gives me a second thought. I know it's silly but can't help but wonder.

Why is it we bring our children up exactly the same and 1 turns against you? In my son's email and letter he didn't say anything bad about his childhood . Just things I have supposed to have said and done in the last 10 years. Why only then and not since his dad died in 2004? He met his wife when they were both 17 a year after his dad's death. They are now 34.

Anyway you can see I am back to my usual ramble.

Warrior Queens keeping living the life you want and do what makes you happy. Our estranged children have made their minds up about us. Do not let them win by changing who we are . Easier said than done I know. And we all have wobbles but that's ok so have a down day and a good cry. And on to the next thing. We are stronger together. And will win the war . Lots of battles to fight along the way . But we fight them together. ?️❤️

An apt quote PF.

We're so fortunate when we still have a child(ren) in our lives who loves us and cares. To be estranged from your only child or all your children just doesn't bear thinking about.

Yes that is an extreme example CafeAuLait and they can be found when looking at the accounts of adult children who've estranged. It's disturbing to know the extent that some people are prepared to go to, to hurt someone.

I agree DSL that Onward "dodged a bullet there". Financial abuse is terrible and once you've been pulled into that situation, very difficult to get away from.

A beautiful morning here which is good to see after yesterday's down pours. A better day for taking the dogs out.

Cross posts Whiff. I'm glad you're, I was going to say enjoying the book but maybe that's the wrong word, benefiting from it might be more appropriate.

Half way through already. You sound like I was when I read it for the first time, just couldn't put it down. It remains the best book I have ever read on this subject.

I hope your 'brain fog' clears today and it's good to know your pain has eased a little.

Whiff, I'm sure your son thinks of you. My husband doesn't really talk about his parents but I know he has checked obituaries from time too time 'just in case', so that means he's thinking of them and wondering. I think he'd be told if they passed though. Sorry for the grim context but just to illustrate that he does think of them. That's all I know of his thoughts on them. He's pretty quiet about the whole topic. He has talked about it when he had counselling. We can't forget our parents, no matter what.

I would challenge the idea that we raise our children the same. To some extent, yes, but they will have different experiences outside the family that influence them as they grow, we do respond to them differently according to personality, even in small ways. And we can't read their minds. People experience the same thing in different ways, so what one sees one way the other may see a very different way - and neither perspective may be incorrect, just different. I'm not saying this has any bearing on your situation with your son.

CafeAuLait

DiamondLily, another evil DIL here, except I didn't estrange my MIL, quite the opposite. I just get blamed for the eventual outcome.

I read the free sample of that book. It ends shortly after the daughter who told her ill mother to die. That is a pretty extreme example (or at least I hope it is!). If my MIL reached out and told me something like that, I would say I was sorry to hear it, wish her the best and make sure my DH considered his position and how he would feel when she passed.

Goodness, I never wished death on her lol. It was “out of sight, out of mind” as far as I (and ex) were concerned. Life was quiet without her nonsense. We didn’t care enough to wish anything on her.

My children, when they were in their 30s, went to see her, out of curiosity. They stayed an hour, told me they understood why I’d cut contact, and they never saw her again.

When she died, last year, a relative got in touch with them to give details of the funeral and to say she’d left something for them. I don’t know what (could have been a memento or letter I suppose, but my children didn’t ask). They just told the relative they wouldn’t be getting involved with flowers or the funeral, and to dump whatever she’d left for them, as they weren’t interested.

And that was that.

She reaped what she’d down. End of, in my view.

CafeAuLait yes our children have different experiences once out of the home. But both our children where brought up with love and attention. They wheren't spoilt what was spent on one was spent on the other. My husband was 47 when he died our son 16 and daughter 20. I continued treating them the way they had always been . Because we knew from when my husband was diagnosed with cancer he hadn't got 5 years he lived 3. Money was set aside for our son so he could go Spain and Iceland as part of his college course and money set aside so he could go to uni. So he was not disadvantaged in anyway . He had what his sister did. That's what I mean by being treated the same .

My son was loving and caring . Where the cruelty and cowardice came from he didn't learn from me his father or of my side of the family.

I used to say he was like his dad. But this has shown he and my daughter in law are just like my in laws. I survived what they put us through I will survive this.

Ramble away Whiff. I enjoy your posts. You are wise and courageous.

Funny you should mention Harry and Megan. Our British press and news outlets don't say much, possibly trying to help the RF limit the damage, but the world press and the internet are awash with their disgraceful behaviour. Her latest wheeze was to appear on the Ellen DeGeneres show. I didnt bother watching the whole thing but the clips I've seen are excruciating.

As well as the news coverage and chat show pundits such as people like Piers Morgan wading in there are loads of psychologists and body language experts posting on the internet about H&M. My favourite is a guy who goes under the name of HG Tudor. He is brilliant. Very funny but he dissects their behaviour like a skilled surgeon with a very sharp scalpel. You can find him on you tube.

As well as his series on "Harry's Wife" he also has loads of videos about narcissism in general. I have found him so helpful (as well as being extremely funny). It's made me realise that my DIL Is Meghan and that my son, like Harry, is her puppet. I now have a much better understanding of what's going on in my DILs head, the dynamics of their marriage and the way she has emasculated my son.

I think it's only a question of time before the RF will be forced to step in because Megans behaviour on Ellen's show was beyond the pale. I know they are trying the dignified - let's just ignore it all and get on with our own lives approach - pretty much the tack we are all taking - but she is bringing shame and ridicule to Harry and by extension our RF.

Now I am not a syphocant about the RF - in fact I turned down an invitation to meet Princess Margaret ?. But I do feel sorry for them, especially the Queen and the late Prince Philip. Harry's treatment of his grandparents was cruel and vicious. There can be no excuse for his behaviour. He can play the victim as much as he likes but his GPs and his brother do not deserve what he has dished out. Whilst I am not comparing myself to HMTQ I can see a lot of parallels in H&Ms behaviour and that of my son and DIL.

One of the things that HG Tudor said is that if you give narcs enough rope they WILL hang themselves. Megan has done exactly that in her ill conceived attempt to garner more fame, money and adulation. It has completely backfired, proving HG right. I take some considerable comfort from this because if he's right about Megan then he's right about my DIL.

So I'm giving her plenty of rope.....?. And then just sitting back waiting for the inevitable,

Gorgeous day here. My car has gone in for its service and some TLC and I'm off out for a walk. I went to Dunhelm yesterday. It was heaving so I just got what I wanted and made a swift exit. I think I will give the bricks and mortar shops a wide birth and just buy the rest of my Christmas gifts online. Covid jab on Wednesday and then need to allow a couple of weeks which takes us very near to Christmas so I think I'll just take the easy way out this year and avoid the city centre shops.

I have decided I will buy my son and DIL Christmas presents after all and I will buy her something for her birthday in December. Then I'll take it from there. Just see how Christmas goes. But whatever the outcome I will continue to just try to be the bigger person and not stoop to her level. Just be my authentic self. And if I'm not good enough for them any more then so be it. It wont be me that's lacking. I am not a failure and I wont be the loser in all this.

That's good point Whiff that our children have different experiences outside of the home.

I think it's also worth noting that children's experiences of their childhoods can and do differ to those of their siblings but that is not necessarily because they were different. Our experiences are to a certain extent subjective so when you say Whiff that you treated your children the same, I say the same about our sons upbringing.

If, and for me it's a big if, there were things that our ES experienced differently to his brother, and those were experienced negatively, communication was what was needed.

Not estrangement, not walking away with no explanation and when some 'reasons' were given to others, including his father and brother, they should have been factual and truthful, not the lies and the adoption of his wife's experiences during her childhood.

DSL I cannot bear to watch or listen to H & M. He reminds me of our ES and M his wife.

I am not a royalist, over the years my admiration and respect for the Queen has grown but I've never had time for PC. That said, my heart goes out to him, for all of them TBH, for the way H & M have systematically attempted to discredit them and destroy that family. It sickens me.

As those of us on this thread know only too well, it's heart breaking and soul destroying. How much more painful must it be to have their sick games played out on the world stage.

They have both been caught out in their lies and yet there are some who continue to believe them. It's becoming increasingly apparent that their popularity is waning and long may that continue until everything they've had to say becomes yesterday news, and they fade into the background which after all, is what they've always claimed they wanted isn't it.

A life out of the limelight.

My eldest won't reach out for himself but he has hoped for a while that his nan would make contact so he can give her a piece of his mind and tell her to stop harassing us all.

Obviously that was expected when he reached 18 so it looks very unlikely now.

There were apparently some truths to be told about me as I've been threatened several times. I don't know what 0these are but there are things about my childhood I don't want him to know and some burdens my children should never carry so I am glad she hasn't tried. Her using my past sexual abuse as a reason I might not be mentally healthy as she often tried to do with me in person, despite not offering any help or support when she was told.... Well that would not go down well with me.

I would go and get her arrested for harassment as she would have pushed it too far.

The more I read this book it talks about all the things we do on this thread. I was shocked about talk of high suicide rate in parents that are estranged or as Sharon calls it abandoned. And how someone says "I feel like a worthless 'thing' sometimes,less than human...".
It's awful to think a child could make their mom feel this way.

Once I have finished it will read it again and probably highlight some things it says.

I feel I need to address someone who has appeared on this thread who is not an estranged parent. Who is a banned poster who was let back on Gransnet under a new name.
Whiff:
"Most of you know who I mean. And before you go bleating to Gransnet and get my post deleted they know full well my feelings about you. And are keeping an eye on you. On another thread you have said estranged children must have been abused by their parents for them to turn against their parents. Like parents on this thread I didn't abuse my son in any shape or form and said that on that other thread. But of course you don't listen and your click backed you up."

This thread is for ALL who are experience estrangement. Says so right in the title. Several EAC tried to do a different EAC only thread and it got shut down.

I am also a bit surprised that you call EAC a "clique". We are a group who have something in common, abusive parents who we have estranged. Most of us have stated several times that we KNOW not all estranged parents are abusive.

If the EP on GN want to have their own thread without EAC, then they need to allow a thread for EAC to be created. Until then, one support thread it is!

So glad you're feeling better Whiff and slept well too!

Wow, those words PF

Thanks Derbyshirelass I think so too, though we miss our GC. I do not miss the daily pressurising, coercive messages. I think he had decided that I must die after having the covid vaccine and that my money must be his. Unfortunately for him, I am very healthy and the will won't be in his favour when I do shuffle off. Worse, he believes that people who have had the covid jab are not even human so are not related to him anymore. It's my GC I feel sorry for because they aren't allowed to mix with anyone. He's cut the whole family off.

Smileless I admire the Queen. I don't read anything about H&M anymore either.

Freedomfromthepast I don't think I was abusive either, but I definitely know I was abused by my son. I've even told people if anything happens to me, it's him. The Plymouth Shooter hated his Mother. All she ever did was try to help him! If only he had the guts to leave home and estrange her, the poor lady would proabably still be alive, living her best life.

to all you Warrior Queens. The truth is out here for all to know.