Child estranges one gradparent

Janejudge you have posted about not having to take on the responsibility for a parents grief, and that as the son is not the parent, he shouldn't have to act like oneconfused. Where has it been said that either of these things has happened here?

It hasn't but I know a lot of sympathy is often given to the parents and the siblings are generally not offered much sympathy and expected to get on with it. The OP hasn't said how how the daughter was but give the son has only just had a baby, we can only assume he and she were young less than 30 at the time and that is such a traumatic loss. Of course it isn't top trumps though. Everyone was grieving and I do have sympathy for the Mum too. I think Dad should keep on seeing him though

I disagree Casdon. In this particular case I am looking at the relationship between a husband and wife, both who have suffered the tragic death of a child, both who found it difficult to come to terms with their loss and parent their remaining children as well as they'd done previously and one, the mother who was eventually diagnosed with complex ptsd.

The mother has been estranged by their son so is unable to see him or their GC while the father is able to do so. The point of this thread isn't whether the son is or is not justified in estranging his mother, whether he is right or wrong to have done so, but the difficulties only the OP being able to visit, is causing for him and his wife.

I don't "accuse a lot of DIL from stopping their husbands from having a relationship with their family" Bibbity. What a ridiculous thing to say.

I respond in accordance with what is said on a particular situation. I have not said "it's the selfish DIL putting her feelings first". I haven't even mentioned the DIL on this thread. I suggest you stick to what's actually being said here if you want to comment, rather than what you think was said.

There is no suggestion that the OP's wife will or even wants to stop the OP from seeing their son and GC, and I fail to see how embellishing what little we do know, is helpful to the OP.

I hope that you will be able to encourage your son to seek professional help with regard to his anxiety which from what you've said Essendon, although more acute when he sees his mother, is not exclusive to that particular relationship.

Maybe grief counselling would be a good place to start, to enable him to come to terms with the impact the death of his sister has had on him.

The daughter was 9 when she died Janejudge having had leukemia for 3 years.

Allsorts I don't think parents facing trauma is exceptional and I don't think it's right for family members to take sides when doing so creates a much bigger divide that would very likely prevent reconsiliation but apart from that, wise words.

What a sad update

You all sound like you've been through hell.
Maybe your son having his own child has triggered something for him. Unfortunately Anxiety isn't something that goes away, he can manage it but it never leaves and maybe it's too late for a relationship between your son and his mum.

I would still continue to see my son and GC, it's not the child's fault and hopefully your wife is understanding of her past and why things are the way they are.

The child comes first, always.

The dilemma for the OP may be that if he sees his son and GC when his wife can't, he feels he's taking his 'side' and if he stops, because both he and his wife are struggling with this very difficult situation, he will be taking his wife's.

In the main I agree with you Smileless but your son didn’t have a traumatic childhood or was surrounded by extreme anxiety.
I wish this family the best of luck. It sounds like Essenden and his wife need to get themselves strong again, perhaps working on their relationship to get to a better place might be a start. It’s so hard in these times to get counselling but they all need it.

The wife is an adult.

The grandchild isn't. The child is being deprived of a relationship with their grandparent when the door is open. Depending the age wondering where Grandad has gone.

We can only say what we do and put our opinion across.

Freedom| I think the problem here is that people are looking for justification for the estrangement in order to form an opinion to advise the OP

I would tend to agree. The issue on this thread is the concerns that Essenden has in the sad situation he finds himself. Justification or otherwise for the estrangement is not actually relevant! Advising Essenden on what he might find helpful to consider is!

Bibbity The son may never wish to be in contact with his mother. Sometimes estrangement is the answer and is the end solution

Well yes, and that is for the son to decide. And it is for Essenden to decide the way forward for himself and his responsibilities within his family. It is not for others to speculate on what may or may not be best for his son! Who knows!

Violet* It's so important to realise that our children are separate, individual people.

I cant really see anywhere that suggests anyone is not seeing their children as separate individual people?

Smileless The point of this thread isn't whether the son is or is not justified in estranging his mother, whether he is right or wrong to have done so, but the difficulties only the OP being able to visit, is causing for him and his wife

I agree, as per what I said above

Smileless There is no suggestion that the OP's wife will or even wants to stop the OP from seeing their son and GC, and I fail to see how embellishing what little we do know, is helpful to the OP

I also agree on this

The point is that conjecture about the motivations or otherwise of Essenden's wife really aren't going to help Essenden in deciding a way forward when he is clearly uncomfortable with the situation. He wants to do right for his son but he also wants to do right for his wife. He may in his heart want his son to reconcile with his mother but he doesn't say that he is pushing for that nor does he say that he wants to walk away. He just wants advice on what he might consider doing, not conjecture about his family members motivation etc. He has come back andf given the extra information that he feels able to give

Essenden I hope that you have found all the suggestions etc helpful and I hope hope that you can work out a way forward that works for you and is right for you and for your family

Actually there doesn’t have to be “sides”.

If the wife could bring herself to say ‘Go with my blessing. Give them my love.”

It would be a gracious and loving gesture that could be the first step in reconciliation.

Peasblossom Actually there doesn’t have to be “sides”.

No there doesn't and it is a pity that it so often seems to be turned into that in discussions on this forum! Every situation is different

Agree Peasblossom.

My son has nothing to do with this Allsorts, this isn't about my son, it's about the OP, his son and his wife. I do think it muddies the waters when detailed personal experiences are brought into the discussion that are not really relevant.

I mentioned our estrangement in my first post on this thread with virtually no detail so Essendon would know I have personal experience of being estranged from an AC and GC.

The details of my estrangement, and what happened between me and my m.i.l., raised by another poster on this thread are irrelevant.

Exactly Madgran. The OP "just wants advice on what he might consider doing, not conjecture about his family members motivation etc." especially when it's not based on anything the OP has said.

Peasblossom

Actually there doesn’t have to be “sides”.

If the wife could bring herself to say ‘Go with my blessing. Give them my love.”

It would be a gracious and loving gesture that could be the first step in reconciliation.

Beautifully put

Yes that would be "a gracious and loving gesture" Peasblossom which she may have already made, but despite that continues to find the situation "extremely difficult" as Essendon continues to struggle too.

Agree Peasblossom

I just meant that if they all wanted the same thing, grandad to see the GC, there wouldn’t be any “sides”.

Not that it wouldn’t be difficult. Life often requires us to smile and say yes when inside our hearts are breaking.

It reminds me of divorce situations. Children are often expected to get on with it when parents divorce. If they are unlucky they may have 1 parent who expects them to take a side, if they are very unlucky, 2 parents who think that way.

Yet we all know how wrong that is and that children should have loving supportive relationships from both parents with parents who encourage that no matter the reasons for divorce and their own feelings for each other.

Expecting a parent or any other family member to give up a relationship because you can't have one is just as wrong. Its abusive in many ways to those other family members

Yes I know what you meant Peasblossom.

TBF to the OP and his wife, I do think posters should refrain from conjecture that has absolutely no basis in the information he has given.

"Expecting a parent or any other family member to give up a relationship because you can't have one is just wrong. It's abusive in many ways to those other family members". This have never been suggested VS, so why did you feel the need to say this?

I feel as though this thread is going off on a tangent from what was posed initially.

I have personal experience of losing a sibling. It is horrendous. I have been left to feel that the sibling who died was the favourite, that the siblings left behind are the ones who should have died instead. It is not what is said, but how you can be left feeling with the actions of those around you in the aftermath. The death of my sibling undoubtedly drove a bigger wedge between my mother and I and it has not changed the relationship between my father and I. Regardless of the cause of that, some hurt cannot be undone, and people should not feel forced into counselling. It makes me quite uncomfortable reading some of the posts on this thread suggesting that the son should be doing more. I think it’s fantastic that he has a relationship with his father still and is enabling the same with his child, as opposed to having cut both parents off.

Essendon, I think it would be a huge blow to your son if you were to stop contact with your GC. It would also put undue pressure on him, making him feel that he has to choose between a relationship with both his parents or none. I can imagine that it must be difficult for your wife, but the relationship between your son and her is separate to that of yours with your son. I would suggest not sharing details of your visits when you see your DS and GC, your wife will know obviously but I think more information without being able to be there could be more painful for her. Has she sought counselling, to help deal with and process the current situation? Perhaps that could help her to figure out a way forward, either coping with the situation or trying to make amends with your son.

It must feel awful being stuck in the middle. Ultimately, our children must always come above our spouses providing there is no criminality or abuse, which I don’t believe there is here from what you have said.

Smileless I didn’t give any detailed personal information about your son, just pointing out that someone who has a good childhood reacts differently to coming from a family where there is abuse and emotional trauma.

pumpkin82 I’m so sorry for your loss.

Your point of view is what I was thinking and couldn’t articulate. I also disagree that this is solely sons problem to fix as though he’s a broken toy.

It is all very sad. For myself I'd rather my husband saw one of our children if they estranged from me. I'd still want that link and to know how they are.

For me it might be linked to my father dying when I was a child, it has given me anxiety about people disappearing so I'd want to know how they are.

Expecting a parent or any other family member to give up a relationship because you can't have one is just as wrong. Its abusive in many ways to those other family members

Yes, but in this case the OP has not said his wife is expecting him to give up his relationship. He has said that she is finding it extremely difficult (hardly surprising) and he is too! Finding it difficult is human, it does not suggest an expectation that he must give the relationship up. It is other posters who have introduced that as a scenario in this situation without the OP suggesting it.

It was Smileless2012 who introduced the idea of OP not seeing his son, right at the beginning of the thread. She said ‘You say you are struggling with this, as is your wife so perhaps not seeing them as things stand, would be best for you both.’ I think the subsequent responses followed on, as a lot of posters disagreed with that approach.

Casdon Unfortunately it seems to have slipped into a sense that it is a reality for the OP which he has never suggested