Sign for grandchildren

And by the same token, none of what you are talking about has anything with regard to fit, reasonable, loving grandparents who want the best for their grandchildren.
Once again - every situation, every family is different.

But there is already a route for them to take Missadventure

Granted they have to jump through hoops but I'd expect any good loving grandparent rather those hoops were there to protect the innocent than an open rotating door

MissAdventure

And by the same token, none of what you are talking about has anything with regard to fit, reasonable, loving grandparents who want the best for their grandchildren.
Once again - every situation, every family is different.

No. Because regardless of how fit and loving they are. They should back off and leave the family alone. They are not the parents and they do not get to make decisions for children that are not theirs.

Yes, my neigjbour has spent the last 15 or so years jumping through hoops.
It has wrecked her health, caused her incredible trauma, and still she hangs on, doing as she is told, patiently waiting for her next lot of rules. (Sometimes set by the children as they've grown)

And she is the only one who has - the parents are long gone, happily moved on to new partners, more kids, leaving a trail of destruction behind them.

She would have been stopped if it was up to the parents.

I can't say any more than I don't agree, bibbity.

As long as other parents agree that's all that matters.

The children are all that matters.

No they don't! Parents matter a lot as well!
It's been proven that healthy parents are better at raising healthy children!

I do not want to see my MIL. A list of estranged people would feel serialised harm at having to see or have any contact with those they have estranged. They deserve a life of happiness just as much as the children.

I used to happily skip down to see my nan, although her and my mum hadn't spoken for 3 years.
I don't think my mum was traumatised by that.
I loved them both.

MissAdventure

And by the same token, none of what you are talking about has anything with regard to fit, reasonable, loving grandparents who want the best for their grandchildren.
Once again - every situation, every family is different.

Exactly. Grandchildren.

They already have parents who want the best for them.

It is for parents to decide what is best for their children, not grandparents.

Good for her...don't see how that's relevant but very happy for you all...

I simply don't agree.
I think you are all wrong.

I simply could not care. And if anything this forum has solidified a lot of my beliefs as it is staggeringly clear why some posters are estranged from their own accounts! If their posts are them trying to make them look good it's very clear why parents need to preserve their rights.

It's perfectly relevant, bibbity.
My mother didn't want to see her mother, just as you dont want to see your mother in law.
She didnt stop me from seeing her, though, as we were very close and I loved spending time with her.
She was a positive influence on me.

We have parents against this, grandparents against this and estranged parents against this.

I'm sorry Missadventure but I don't think we are wrong

It's fine for you to all think however you think.
No need to be sorry.
It's just differences of opinion.

No worries MissA

I know it's an upsetting subject

MissAdventure

I simply don't agree.
I think you are all wrong.

You can think whatever you like.

It doesn’t change the fact that grandparents don’t get to determine what is best for their grandchildren and parents don’t have to facilitate a relationship between their children and their grandparents if they choose not to.

This petition won’t change anything. Again, you can think whatever you like. But I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Children without grandparents in their life fare no better or worse than those with grandparents in their life. And that’s not just something I think, that’s a fact.

Not for me, particularly, as I'm not, and never have been estranged.
It's just a subject that intrigues me since I met my ex partner and saw what a convoluted mess his family was.

GG65
Glad I have your permission to think what I like.
I appreciate it.

You were fortunate that your mum didn't stop you from seeing your GM MissA. It's always nice to know that there are parents who will put their personal grievances to one side for the sake of their children.

MissAdventure

GG65
Glad I have your permission to think what I like.
I appreciate it.

You’re most welcome!

Yes, I suppose it took a lot of teeth gritting on my mum's part, smileless.
They did make up again, luckily.

GPR is one of the only instances I can think of that directly takes rights away from one party and grants them to another.

It is an erosion of parental rights. There's no way around that.

I've seen two contradictory arguments for GPR - one, that grandparents can protect against abusive parents, and that's why it's needed.

Two, that abusive grandparents are so rare that they're not really a threat and courts can be counted on to weed them out, so it's not something to worry about with GPR.

Either abusers are rare, or they're not. You can't argue both. Abusers aren't confined to a generation, any more than they're confined by any other socio-economic status.

You can't use the spectre of child abuse to try and change laws in favour of GPR, then deny the existence of now grandparents having been child abusers.