Sign for grandchildren

Perhaps allowing you to see your GM kept the door open MissA helping them to eventually reconcile.

MercuryQueen

GPR is one of the only instances I can think of that directly takes rights away from one party and grants them to another.

It is an erosion of parental rights. There's no way around that.

I've seen two contradictory arguments for GPR - one, that grandparents can protect against abusive parents, and that's why it's needed.

Two, that abusive grandparents are so rare that they're not really a threat and courts can be counted on to weed them out, so it's not something to worry about with GPR.

Either abusers are rare, or they're not. You can't argue both. Abusers aren't confined to a generation, any more than they're confined by any other socio-economic status.

You can't use the spectre of child abuse to try and change laws in favour of GPR, then deny the existence of now grandparents having been child abusers.

This

Nobody has used it as the basis for grandparents seeing their grandchildren, though.
It's just been mentioned as an example of why parents may want to stop others seeing the results of their abuse.

Of course, you also can't possibly believe that there are a multitude of abusive grandparents and they have all raised perfect adult children.

No MissA they raise children differently. Scapegoats and golden children. Some children escape, heal, educate themselves and do differently. Some children normalise their upbringing, learn those behaviours and carry them on thus repeating the cycle.

An example that deserves consideration MissA because as we all know abusers do what ever it takes to keep their abusive behaviour hidden.

The genuine need to protect children is one reason, but certainly not the only one.

So, there are abusive parents, violet.
Of course there are.
Every generation has it's malfunctioning people within it.
But again, it isn't THE reason that some grandparents want contact with the grandchildren.

That's what we have been saying all along MissA

Abusive parents don't magically stop being abusive when they become grandparents

Well that's one thing we can agree on, at least.

Abusive parents can also leave their adult children with lasting issues, too, of course.

Considering how many abusive grandparents people here claim to know (or presume to) that must be a hell of a lot of messed up offspring.

MissAdventure

Abusive parents can also leave their adult children with lasting issues, too, of course.

Considering how many abusive grandparents people here claim to know (or presume to) that must be a hell of a lot of messed up offspring.

Yep. Agreed.

And it stands to reason that the abusive parents who are now grandparents shouldn't get the chance to traumatize a second generation.

Many people I know who are dealing with abusive childhoods are doing their best to heal and overcome. They KNOW they're messed up, and are working their tails off to ensure that their kids don't have the same trauma.

Somehow, "Well, you're messed up, so until you're perfect you don't get to keep your abusers away from your kids." doesn't quite work.

I see you have quoted "Well, you're messed up, so until you're perfect you don't get to keep your abusers away from your kids" MercuryQueen.

You haven't said who you are quoting. It's a rather unpleasant thing to say and I don't recall seeing it on this thread. Can you direct me to where this was said.

I wasn’t quoting anyone, Seasidelass. It was simply an example. Miss A suggested there are a lot of messed up offspring. I agreed, but believe that validates rather than undermines their decision making.

Know better, do better way of thinking.

Well better not to use quotation marks then MercuryQueen as you gave the distinct impression that something rather unpleasant had been said here which wasn't.

I suggest in future that if you're giving an example, you make that clear.

I understood you perfectly MercuryQueen

The ability to understand is not the issue VioletSky. Quotation marks are used when one is quoting something that someone else has said. They are not used when an example is being given.

They are also used to indicate speech seasidelass, in this case as an example of paraphrasing

You can only paraphrase something that has been said VioletSky. No one on this thread has said anything remotely like the "example" MercuryQueen says she was giving.

Therefore she cannot be paraphrasing.

OK seasidelass

If the ability to understand isn’t the issue, then I thank you for your opinion, but will communicate as I see fit.

Which of course is you're right MercuryQueen.

Seasidelass

Which of course is you're right MercuryQueen.

If you want to critique others communications, at least get yours right.

It’s your.

I thank you for your opinion Summerlove but will communicate as I see fit.

I'm so glad 2022 began with a laugh for me

Same for me VioletSky, always best to start with a laugh if you can.

Thank you seasidelass