Regret:Do you wish you’d handled things differently?

Peasblossom

Hmm, AnnJH.

I don’t think your SIL should have hit his daughter. But she hit her brother. Almost certainly not the first time.

And you gave her cuddles to negate the message that what she did was wrong.

So now she thinks her Dad was in the wrong and it’s Ok to hit your little brother.?

Quite agree. When we see our AC discipline our children I think the best thjng we can do as grandparents is to shut up and stand back. It's their turn now!

I’ve always been very confused by the logic that hitting a child teaches the child it’s wrong to hit. The SIL and GD can both be wrong for hitting.

Harmonypuss I completely agree that even thinking about reconciliation can be bad for someone's mental health, that's a definite factor in our situation.

That must have been upsetting for you to witness Ann. I wonder if your D's extreme reaction to that telephone conversation is because she isn't happy with her husband's discipline choices either.

Harmonypuss

So sorry you went through so much and your mother was not there to protect you

Some women should never become mothers at all

Grandpanow

I’ve always been very confused by the logic that hitting a child teaches the child it’s wrong to hit. The SIL and GD can both be wrong for hitting.

Yes both the granddaughter and the son in law were wrong.

But so was rewarding the granddaughter with affection after she hit her brother.

She obviously doesn’t yet know, (at five years old which is quite late in development) that hitting other people, especially younger, smaller people is wrong.

It won’t help her to get a “daddy’s wrong” message from granny.

AnnaJH

May I ask how you disciplined your kids while they were growing up?

I suppose I just disagree. If the goal is to teach her it’s wrong to hit, I think it’s an easier lesson to learn if it’s acknowledged she shouldn’t have been hit either. I do see the point that perhaps the message shouldn’t come from gran. Unless there are other incidents going on indicating more severe hitting/abuse. I would think the Ds reaction suggests she is worried about it, but that’s just how I would interpret such a reaction from one of mine.

The problem is grans message was “Daddy shouldn’t have hit you’” not “You shouldn’t have hit your brother”.

Daddy might now realise he did something wrong but at best the granddaughter is confused, but more probably is still hitting her brother, but with an element of defiance.

Nobody seems to be bothered about the two year old who is getting hit by his sister.

I don't condone violence as discipline.

How was the slap? I have seen from the lightest ones like a touch to get the kids attention to other ones that are abuse.

Grandparents have no input in how their gc are educated, for good or for bad.

Peasblossom nailed it, anyway.

There is more to this situation, I feel.
How was your relationship with them before this incident?

I'm so sorry for everything you went through Harmonypuss, I agree with Hithere

I don't agree with hitting. The only physical discipline I agree with is asking children to physically help clean up things they should not have done like drawing on something or throwing toys where they shouldn't.

The thing is, I also don't agree with pulling up parenting in front of the child. This will further confuse the child.

I don't think this is a bad father, but he cannot expect his child to be in control of their emotions and not smack someone when he cannot control his emotions either and use his words.

I'd prefer he used a timeout.

Would I address this with my children? Yes I would but kindly and not in front of the child.

Are your grandchildren still alive ? If they are that shows you that you were in the wrong. You had no need to interfere with the parents decision. I have 5 DGC between 10 and 17 and have never once interfered with the way the children were brought up and never did my parents or in laws poked their noses in with my parenting . I think you owe both your DS and your DinL a huge apology.
Keep out of it in future.

janeainsworth

^a phrase that my grandmother often said came to mind: "^Never apologise, never explain^" and she definitely lived by it!^
Happy
That aphorism has been variously attributed to different men of power, and while it may have served them well in the past, it’s hardly a recipe for getting on well with your grown-up children in the 21st century.

I agree! I think it is a very silly phrase anyway and absolute rubbish as a way to behave!!

AnnJH

Hello all, I don't usually post but this thread struck a chord with me. Dilpicker, I feel your pain. It is so hurtful when we are disrespected by our adult children. It sounds as though they felt criticised by you but perhaps they over reacted for some reason...perhaps stress.

I've recently had a fall out via phone with my daughter. It's about something that happened on Christmas day at their house. My Son-in-law hit my 5 year old GD on the back when she hit her 2 year old brother. I was in shock and picked up my GD from the floor and cuddled her. My daughter watched the whole thing, then told my GD who was still sobbing to apologise to my GS. My SIL showed no remorse for having hit my GD and I was to worried to say anything in case I was blamed for ruining Xmas day.

When I text my daughter to say that my SiL needs to stop hitting my GD, my daughter replied "it doesn't happen very often". My daughter then phoned me and I said she should be protecting my GD from violence and she called me "a f***ing bitch" and slammed down the phone.

Both my D and Sil are professionals, well educated and have good jobs. I know they have stressful jobs but I'm still in shock that they think it's ok to hit my GD...on Christmas day! My GD is such a bright and beautiful little girl and I'm genuinely worried about her emotional wellbeing. They have a beautiful home and she has an amazing bedroom with lots of toys but who hits a 5 year old child on xmas day then acts as though they've done nothing wrong. I feel heartbroken for my GD. My only daughter has not been close to me for a number of years, so her reaction is hurtful, but not unexpected.

It's so hard being a grandparent when your young GC are stopped from seeing you at the whim of their parents.

AnnJH I do understand that it must have been hard observing that although I am not sure the fact that it happened on Christmas Day is particularly relevant; would it have been "ok" on a different day?

With regard to what happened I think you were wrong to cuddle GD (even though I understand that it was instinctive) because the whole message was wrong for her as others have suggested ...ie. Daddy was wrong, hitting her brother was ok, Granny will "side" with her against her parents!!

With regard to raising it with your daughter I am not really surprised that she reacted as she did! You text her first, strongly criticising her husband, having had no proper discussion about it, having had no way of gauging how she feels about it etc!! Most people will automatically defend their partner in those circumstances whatever their true feelings or concerns; what gives you the right to tell her what she "needs to do" or what her husband "needs to do"!!

Then when she rings you you don't ask her how she feels, if she is worried what she thinks. You again tell her what she "needs to do".

I do understand that you are upset, that this is emotional and that you are worried. Maybe your daughter is too!

But why would she talk that through with you with this type of communication? Calling you a "f*** b****" is not appropriate but does high light just how angry she was (stressed; worried; who knows!)

In the end your daughter and her husband have to work this out.

Unless you are truly worried about your SIL being seriously abusive, hitting your GD and causing damage etc, then you have to step back. And think about gentle "influence" rather than "telling"

But having a relationship with them where they feel able to discuss things with you, be honest about worries , pressures etc would be more helpful than one where you try to "tell" them and they therefore don't engage.

If they are not speaking to you/avoiding you I suggest that you contact them, ask if it would be possible to have a chat, apologise for undermining SIL at XMAS, say that you were upset by the smacking but that was no excuse for the undermining, and ask them to explain their ways of disciplining so that you understand and can ensure that you support them. And Listen!

My mom does the "you need to do _______" thing all the time. It is infuriating.

I finally told her, "no, you need me to do ________). But that is not going to happen. I am an adult and a parent. I am more than capable of making decisions about and taking care of my life, partner and children."

I do not agree with hitting a child as punishment for hitting a child. That needs to be addressed by the child's parents.

I agree with madgran here, you undermined that child's parents.

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