Repairing estrangement

Dear Allsorts, there's no way of knowing if you contact your D again, whether this will be seen by her as an invasion of her space and/or she'll see this as you trying to guilt trip her.

You would only know if that was the case if she responded, if she were to ignore this attempt to communicate as she's ignored all the others, you'll never know.

Elizabeth and Sara have both said they would not welcome being contacted by those they have estranged. The email I received from our ES when my mum died 18 months ago was not welcome, he estranged us, but I did afford him the courtesy of a reply.

My advice is to decide whether or not to write to her, based on what is best for you. If you think it will help you, regardless of whether or not you get a response then do so, but if you can't see doing so is going to help you deal with the pain you're going through, then don't.

If you love someone who doesn't love you should you just let them be, yes I think you should for your sake as much as theirs especially when previous attempts have failed.

FWIW, I think there is little if anything to be gained by taking responsibility for an estrangement unless of course you are responsible for it. Likewise with apologising for something/things you haven't done.

As DSL has said "not knowing where you've gone wrong is a particular kind of torment" and for many EP's a very cruel one.

You cannot fix something if you don't know where it's broken and when it comes to relationships, all relationships, there has to be a desire from all concerned to talk, to listen, to forgive and find a way of moving forward.

You've been accused of things you haven't done; that's heartbreaking and how can you deal with that? Depending on the severity of the accusations, it may be possible having talked this through to accept that you both see this differently. For example, your D may have attributed a motivation to something you said or did that was never there. You can apologise for the pain that the miss understanding caused and she can accept that, or not.

Whatever you decide Allsorts, base your decision on what is best for you, on what will enable you to rebuild your life and begin to heal from the pain this is causing you .

I know how that feels Elless which is why we moved. Seeing your son walk past you as if you don't even exist, well there just aren't any words to describe that pain.

Thank you for all your support. Very sorry for those living through this. It’s been so long now and I know really it’s not possible for me to reconnect. It comes over me in waves. Most of the time I cope although it’s never far away in my mind.
Elizabeth has expressed eloquently reasons for her estrangement. Just doesn’t like them.
I do think a few posters assume all mothers, not them of course, are either abusive or deserve what’s happened. Not so.

If Allsorts has been accused of things she hasn't done, then why should she apologise for them? That's no basis for a relationship.

Those accusations may be to do with a miss understanding as I've just mentioned, or they could be a total fabrication to 'justify' the estrangement.

There's no suggestion in her OP that Allsorts is refusing to accept responsibility for what she knows she may have done wrong, and there never has been in the numerous posts she's made about her estrangement.

The problem is that Allsorts daughter must have her reasons, and to totally estrange her mother, to her at least, they must be pretty big issues.
I think my mother would probably say she has no idea why I have estranged her, that I was always difficult, that she had always done her best, but she only remembers the bigger picture, I remember everything in detail.
Not for one minute comparing Allsorts with my mother, just pointing out that memories differ so much.

I think, in order for an apology to work, the "accused" must be told WHAT they are supposed to have done.

How can you apologise, and what would you apologise for, if you don't know?

If the AC wants some form of apology, or dialogue, then they need to have the courage to say what the issue, or issues is or are.

If they won't say, then, personally, I wouldn't apologise for an act I don't know I apparently committed.

That's just pointless.

I completely agree DiamondLily and I also wouldn't apologise for something I knew I hadn't done.

I don't know if this will help or not, but here's a website that has helped me.
www.rejectedparents.net/

Smileless2012

I completely agree DiamondLily and I also wouldn't apologise for something I knew I hadn't done.

No, I would happily apologise (and have!), if I've been out of line, but I couldn't apologise without knowing why.

How can an apology even be sincere, if you don't know why or what you've apparently done?

If the AC give a reason or reasons, then at least you can agree and apologise, discuss it and consider it, or refute it and refuse to apologise.

If the AC haven't got the courage to do that, then the situation can't really move forward.

I agree that you can’t just go around apologising for anything and everything.
But it may be more a matter of small things building up, over months or years, little resentments stored away till enough is enough.

at least you can agree and apologise, discuss it and consider it, or refute it and refuse to apologise exactly DiamondLily where there is a refusal to communicate there is no way forward.

Is it reasonable though, if small things have built up over a period of time and resentment has been stored up, to estrange without those things ever being talked about Sara? I don't think it is.

You cannot resolve anything unless you know what those things are and surely if the relationship means anything to you at all, you would want to try and save it.

Allsorts If you don’t know what you’ve done then what will you apologise for? You’ve asked for a conversation with your daughter but that’s not happened.

Is she not too sure herself what her anger is about, is she afraid of your answers.?

Sometimes we just have to let them go and take care of ourselves. Most of the posts here are very sound advice in response to your particular question. Hope they’ve helped.

I think it’s time now to let her go, take care of yourself and surround yourself with people who do love and want to care for you. You can’t make sense out of nonsense and not telling you her reasons is in my view nonsense.

"You can't make sense out of nonsense" good point Granniesunite.

Smileless
I understand how you feel.
But personally, I think attempting to talk would unleash a lifetime of resentment, no good would come of it.
I know that’s not the same for everyone.

You're right Sara, not everyone's circumstances and experiences are the same.

Hypothetical conversation

Daughter: "mom, it bothers me when you do this, that, and some other thing (insert more concrete examples here). Could you please stop?
For example, yesterday, in x location, it happened again (insert concrete examples here)"

Mother:"I don't remember that when did you say it happened and what did I do?"

Daughter: "yesterday, in X store, you did X and y. It bothers me and our relationship would improve if it didn't happen any more"

Mother: " I don't do that! That didn't happen yesterday!"

A hypothetical conversation showing a mother denying something that happened the day before. Not sure how it's relevant to this discussion.

It's difficult

With my mum I spent quite a lot of time trying to figure out:

Was I imagining things that weren't happening?

Was my mum not able to remember things that were happening?

That is why I couldn't really understand that situation until my own children had witnessed her behaviour which encouraged me to get help and find the truth.

Which wasn't either of those in my case, it was so much worse but I am glad to know the truth.

I thank you Whiff, Diamond Lil, Smileless and Grannieunite for making me see sense. When I read your posts, then the others, especially the one, where the hypothetical conversation just didn’t make sense, the mother was denying what was said the day before, the mother had a problem with her memory, thus needing understanding. Things fell into place. The reasons for estrangement obviously matter to the posters, but my opinion differs to theirs , I could never estrange my mother because quite simple they irritate me or had memory problems, one day that might be us, .It reminds me I could never go back to imaginary hurts without reasons, the fault finding, justifying everything, how it made me feel worthless, I know without any doubt I did the best I could at the time, always loved both my children, but I wasn’t good enough, but I can’t turn the clock back. Truth is I would do the same in the circumstances. So I let her go and hope she is that perfect mother that never does a thing wrong. I know however, I am kind and don’t like hurting people. I can’t imagine making my mother cry it’s not possible, I will not let this change me and make me bitter will not sink there. Thank goodness for the one child and my other grandchildren who care and my lovely friends who despite knowing me most of my life still want to be with me, also the friends I have made on this forum, with whom I share a common bond.

I'm glad you came back on the thread you started and have found some of the responses helpful Allsorts.

I'm not saying it would never happen, but a mother deliberately denying something that happened the day before IMO was an extreme 'example' and I didn't see it's relevance to this thread, as the discussions has been about events from the past, not the day before.

The fault finding, 'justification' and "imaginary hurts" are horrible and I'll never understand why an AC would want to make their parent(s) feel worthless, or why anyone would want to treat someone like that.

It isn't easy letting them go Allsorts but in the end, it's the only option we have and by making that decision, we are taking back some control.

Concentrate on your other child, your GC, your family and friends who know you so well that they know this isn't deserved and those who understand and share your pain here on GN.

Stay strong and true to yourself.

If my child made accusations I was absolutely sure did not happen, I don't think I could ever let go, I'd be very worried about them. I think I'd say whatever they needed to hear to be able to keep an eye on them and in a position to get them help. Joint therapy would be a way to accomplish that

Joint therapy would be a way to accomplish that

And how would you engineer that when one party (the daughter) won't communicate at any level?

Violet, even in the happiest of households, memories will differ, one of my daughters does it all the time, not about anything serious, but her memories are often different to her siblings and us.
So I am prepared to agree that some of my memories could be distorted, but certainly not all of them, and certainly not my adult memories.
I’m pretty certain my mother, given the chance, would laugh it off, and say I take things too seriously, so I will never give her the chance.
Allsorts, you sound like a nice lady, perhaps she’ll be back of her own accord one day.

Instead of card or letters, how about sending a bunch of flowers with a simple note saying "Miss You". And keep sending flowers with similar messages on Birthdays etc. This will just show you still care and want to be in touch. Maybe one day in the future, she will soften and come back to you. If she does come back, don't talk about the past or look for answers as this may get her back up, just work on having a good future.

VioletSky, Most of the estranged parents on these threads have felt and responded exactly as you say you would if one of your adult children ‘made accusations’.
Apologies, love, attempts to rebuild relationships. Individual therapy, often funded and facilitated by the parent, anything to keep that door open. It all comes to an end when the child or the parent refuse to do it, stay stuck in painful fears and memories.

Iam64
I would never go for counselling, and the only thing my mother and I might possibly have in common, is that I’m sure she never would either.