Pregnant and abusive daughter

The "support thread|" offers support and a "listening ear" for expressing upset, anger and very human feelings. Sometimes posters validate those human feelings, sometimes they suggest a different viewpoint. It also offers "critical friend" advice on occasions, helping people to think about their situation from different perspectives and ways to deal with their anger or their upset or their very human feelings. Over the time I have read and on occasions commented on it I have seen EPs, EACs and those fearing estrangement even if not fully estranged, get help and support on the thread.

Sadly I have also seen arguments, upsets and "side" wars which really help no-one. It would be good if that did not arise again, and also if posters who are struggling with difficult issues could be left to decide for themselves whether they want to read and/or participate in the thread as they see fit.

I am aware of course that this post may be deleted as I believe in the GN rules it states that discussion on "other threads" should not take place. If that is the case I assume that several of the last few posts may also be deleted.

It's a possibility Madgran but I hope not. I'm not sure that suggesting a poster look at another thread is against the rules. It seems reasonable to me if the suggestion is to be helpful.

Yes I agree Smileless I don't think suggesting looking at a thread is against the rules. I think talking about the nature of the thread, the things discussed might be but who knows.

Anyway I hope that if Longtoothedgran decided to look at it, she finds it helpful

Only time will tell Madgran.

To the OP: I don’t think your situation sounds like one where you are likely to be estranged. You and your daughter clearly care for each other. This is a very stressful situation, and one where I think it’s natural for tensions to arise. I often reflect on what would happen at heightened situations if I had turned to online forums (as I’m more active online now then I was ever before ) and I worry sometimes that it could have exacerbated the situation. A friend forwarded me the following blog about balancing finding support online and repairing relationships with adult children. I hope it can be helpful for you as well, although as with everything, it’s just one person’s perspective and I don’t know that it directly relates to things here on Gransnet. medium.com/wise-woman-within/estranged-parent-support-groups-can-do-more-harm-than-good-c1d2387bfce2

I can honestly say that my most positive experience of a support group has been here on GN. I find that 'closed' support groups can be too introspective, with little or no light relief from simply chatting about every day things as everything is about estrangement.

Little or no interest in anyone who manages to reconcile when there is much to be learned from anyone who sees an end to their estrangement.

Little or no interest in anyone fearing estrangement, because they're not there yet, despite the trauma of feeling as if they're in no man's land.

One in particular where there wasn't any encouragement to let go and move on with your life. Living in perpetual pain and misery seemed to be the order of the day. Needless to say, I didn't stay very long.

IMO it's beneficial where appropriate to point out that no one should have to tolerate abuse, be someone's emotional punch bag and be subjected to emotional blackmail. Equally beneficial to say if you feel someone could do things better, which has to be said in a non judgemental way.

That's it's OK that you weren't a perfect parent, because who is?
It's OK to be angry because anger is part of the grieving process and estrangement is called 'a living bereavement'.

Different people have different needs and it can take time to find the right support group for your needs. One size doesn't fit all. As with any advice regardless of its source, a decision has to be made whether or not it's the right advice for you.

Good post Smileless. Sometimes it’s a relief to not have to dance any more to an entitled ac who acts like a child. It’s freeing, no relationship is worth walking in egg shells for and trying to work out what you and can’t say. It’s demeaning and ridiculous, we are worth more than that.

It can take a while but it is a good feeling when relief is what you feel Allsorts. Thankfully we never had to do the egg shell walk, never got the chance but I can see it must be "demeaning and ridiculous" and agree that "we are worth more than that".

VioletSky

Have you considered that actually, it could be how it's read. There isn't any tone or inflection in type

One of the things any writer considers is tone. How a piece is read is generally a reflection of how it's written. To say there is no tone in type isn't true. It may be that we convey a tone that is not what we intend, but the choice of vocabulary, sentence structure, and the cultural nuances we bring to anything we write all affect the tone.

It may also be that the difference in speech patterns across generations contribute to a mismatch between the intended and perceived tone but it's neither helpful nor accurate to make it a game of 'your fault not mine.'

Madgran77

*VioletSky Also why walk on eggshells rather than find a time to sit down together and have a conversationabout what is wrong in the relationship?*

Only possible if all parties are willing to do that

Quite. People generally walk on eggshells when they are met with angry outbursts and attempts at discussion are repeatedly shut down.

hugshelp I think that how it is read very much matters if you are a person or belong to a group of people that others need or want to see the worst in for whatever reason.

It's never right to assume that EAC don't genuinely care and aren't genuinely trying to help and every time that idea crops up it needs to be shut down a it I unfair and untrue.

At least let the person receiving the advice judge for themselves anyway when they are coming here for first time

Good posts hugshelp. I think when we are only communicating with the written word more care is needed. More attention to detail, because the tone isn't as audible as it is with speech, but that doesn't mean that a tone doesn't exist.

Facial expressions and/or body language that can convey so much aren't available, so of course we respond to what is written because that's all we have to go on.

"People generally walk on eggshells when they are met with angry out bursts and attempts at discussion are repeatedly shut down". I think you've summarised that very well.

The key word is "repeatedly"

Assuming you have been told no before, why keep trying and make the situation worse?

That's not walking in eggshells, it is the lack of willingness to read the room or accept the decision of the other party

Assuming you have been told before, that's the problem with assumptions. Some people have never been told and are still waiting.

VioletSky

hugshelp I think that how it is read very much matters if you are a person or belong to a group of people that others need or want to see the worst in for whatever reason.

It's never right to assume that EAC don't genuinely care and aren't genuinely trying to help and every time that idea crops up it needs to be shut down a it I unfair and untrue.

At least let the person receiving the advice judge for themselves anyway when they are coming here for first time

I'm not looking to see the worst in anyone. Are you?

I was merely pointing out that tone is conveyed by the written word. I perhaps ought to have added that another thing that affects tone is whether we acknowledge any points made by the person we engage with or simply keep reiterating our own position.

I'm making none of the assumptions that you allude to but I acknowledge that is something that can happen.

Who is stopping anyone judging for themselves?

Honestly, it takes a long time for me to stop seeing the best in people and quite a lot of evidence I am not misunderstanding or being unfair to them

Smileless2012

The f.i.l. was asked not to tell them about them about the 'phone call. He appears to have volunteered the information. Had he been asked if his d.i.l's parents had 'phoned and he'd said no, that would have been a lie.

I agree, saying nothing wouldn’t have been a lie unless asked outright. I suppose he may have seen it as a lie of omission and not been comfortable with it from that point of view, but why agree to keep quiet and then break the promise ? At least now the OP knows where she stands with him.

Over the years, I have never found that any sort of family conflict is ever helped by anyone tittle-tattling to them about what another family member has said or done.

It's just stirring the pot of aggravation further.

I hope it all gets resolved anyway.

Summerlove

^But they weren’t asking for information that the couple didn't want to share - they rang the FIL because they were worried about their daughter having not been able to contact her for 4 days, and just asking if she was OK. It’s natural to be worried and there was no need for the FIL to say anything - especially as he had been asked not to.^

As they were not answering messages, I’d assume any information was information they didn’t want to share.

FILs loyalty is to his son. Not his sons in-laws.

Am I reading this wrong ? After receiving potentially serious news about her unborn baby, the OP’s daughter effectively cut her own parents out of the loop by going to stay with her in laws, a hundred miles away. Then she went NC for four days knowing full well how worried they’d be. Then had a hissy fit because they were so concerned that they rang her FIL to see if she was OK. I understand the effect that the news would have had, and it’s also clear that there are others issues between the OP and her daughter, but I don’t think any of them are an excuse to treat her parents like this. If she’d simply rung them to explain that she was OK, wanted some time alone to process things, and would ring when they were ready, the situation would never have arisen. And whichever way you look at it the FIL’s actions made things worse, and he must have known that when he rang his son. There are times when you put your personal feelings aside and look at the bigger picture, and this was one of them. Are we really saying that we wouldn’t be hurt if put in the same situation as the OP ?

Diamondlily In my situation I didn't tell family members the things my mother said about them behind their backs. Truly awful things I won't repeat as they would be very identifying.

This backfired on me because I didn't know she was also telling them awful untruths about me.

After we estranged I lost those family relationships and I could have blown everything up with the truth but I couldn't be the one to do it. I couldn't bring myself to hurt them so I let them go.

Asking family members to lie and keep secrets is wrong.

FIL has set a boundary. He won't be party to talking about his son and DIL behind their backs. He won't play that sort of game.

In future OP will know that, this man is in fact a trustworthy ally to his son and DIL. She needs to ask herself, had this been reversed would she be comfortable with anyone asking the same of her? Or would she have told her daughter? Why would telling her daughter be wrong if the call was innocent?

Now I have learned a lesson and I will keep people's secrets but I won't keep secrets that involve others I care about. I also won't put anyone else in that position.

He wasn't asked to lie. He was just asked how a very worried OPs daughter was.

I wouldn't have passed on the information.

VioletSky

Diamondlily In my situation I didn't tell family members the things my mother said about them behind their backs. Truly awful things I won't repeat as they would be very identifying.

This backfired on me because I didn't know she was also telling them awful untruths about me.

After we estranged I lost those family relationships and I could have blown everything up with the truth but I couldn't be the one to do it. I couldn't bring myself to hurt them so I let them go.

Asking family members to lie and keep secrets is wrong.

FIL has set a boundary. He won't be party to talking about his son and DIL behind their backs. He won't play that sort of game.

In future OP will know that, this man is in fact a trustworthy ally to his son and DIL. She needs to ask herself, had this been reversed would she be comfortable with anyone asking the same of her? Or would she have told her daughter? Why would telling her daughter be wrong if the call was innocent?

Now I have learned a lesson and I will keep people's secrets but I won't keep secrets that involve others I care about. I also won't put anyone else in that position.

Your post would be more relevant if the OP had rung the FIL and started prying into what was happening. She didn’t - they were simply worried after the daughter went NC for four days after receiving some worrying news. He wasn’t asked to hide some terrible secret, and he wasn’t party to talking about them behind their backs - they simply wanted confirmation that their daughter was OK, and they didn’t want to make things worse by letting her know they had made enquiries. The OP didn’t do this out of some malicious intent, she did it because she was worried. And her daughter had cut her parents out of the loop deliberately for quite a long time, knowing they would be worried. Not a nice thing to do, and I think people have lost sight of that. The FIL agreed not to say anything and then immediately went and did just that, sparking a nasty row. How is that helpful ?

It strikes me that this thread as devolved into bickering amongst posters regarding either their own emotional hurt or apparent conflicts with each other. While of course everyone has a right to do this on public forums, I feel for the op who clearly wanted help. Couldn’t some of these fights be had elsewhere in the off chance that the op returns? It’s one thing to bring perspective, it seems another to make the situation about oneself.

My argument is that, things are strained for OP right now but like others on this thread, I think they don't need to remain strained and they certainly don't need to lead to estrangement.

In order for that to happen it is better for both parties to be completely honest and have all the facts.

"I was very worried and desperate and called to check on you when I should have respected your need for space"

Will ultimately help OP more than

"I called to check on you and didn't think you should be told I was doing that and I'm angry at your FIL for telling you"

One deals with what OP actually did

Two blame shifts

That's the problem I see with it anyway

Grandpanow sorry