Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

DSL .Youvare not asking too much but your son has a different view. I was in the position you are with your son for many years, with my d, it was horrible, walking on eggshells the whole time. I know there's no chance of a normal relationship, there wasn't when she decided there wouldn't be, years before, it just took a long time for me to accept. That cloud has gone and the hopes with it. . My son rings but it was Christmas since we had any quality time, there for emergencies. Hardly company though. The difference is now I accept it, I am a small part if his life . I stop here in my home as I know everyone around but in a house too big that I can't manage, I admire people like you that do something about it, you have things moving and are viewing it as a fresh start and a challenge. I have lost so much else I can't imagine how I will cope being amongst strangers in a new area. . My father used to say, children are all your life, you are a part of theirs.
PP don't torment yourself with what you have done wrong, you did your best no one can do more. I too need a proper holiday and will hooefully go on a cruise when I feel all the ports are accessible. This Covid has a lot to answer for..
Smileless your roof terrace looks very tropical and with these temperatures it must feel it too.
Hope Whiff enjoying her friends visit in thus lovely weather.p

I'm sorry you've got the night-torment thoughts PP. It's awful when they go around in our heads. As allsorts says we all did our best and can do no more. I wonder if you could put up some kind of arbour with plants for privacy to give you somewhere to sit out. Or some kind of screening structure?

I'm glad you have found acceptance in the relationship you have with your son allsorts. I understand what you are saying about strangers if you move on, but we went to look at a bungalow yesterday and ended up chatting over the fence with the neighbour for ages before we left. We felt almost at home instantly. There's a few practicalities we're not sure about with the bungalow which we're trying to work out but it's very tempting. But still the neighbours seemed lovely people from the off.

Out of the blue I got another letter from ES. Much shorter. No response to my request for examples of the things he accuses me of. He basically says he's stuck, he's not ready to trust but but he doesn't know why and have I got anything else to say now I've had time to reflect? {I feel like he thinks I've been mulling over my naughtiness like a reprimanded child} What I actually think is he's made me the monster he can be angry at to explain away all his problems and I didn't give him the ammunition he needed so he wants me to try harder. I don't think he's any nearer to understanding himself after all this therapy. He's looking for people to blame - mostly me.
Anyway I have another bungalow to view and some serious thinking to do about the one we saw yesterday. Want to look at one more to compare. Hope you all have a fabulous day.

Pixie sorry you're not sleeping.,,I'm the same but mine is very early waking, a combination of anxiety, light mornings, and hot sultry weather. I like heat but being so far inland means it does get rather humid. I know it's sacrilege to say it, but I shall be glad when it cools down a bit tomorrow,

Allsorts....I too shall be cruising again one of these days. ??

I can accept being a small part of my sons life, that's not the issue. What I do take issue with is the negative impact that what has happened has had on me......on my health, my well-being and in my lack of confidence.

I never used to be such a scaredy cat. I want the old me back.

Even my husbands long illness and death didn't shatter my confidence, in fact it made me stronger and more resilient, but the years of being undermined, sidelined, sneered at, walking on eggshells has really taken its toll. I want to be strong and confident again. I don't want to be too timid to live.

I'm hoping that this move will be the start of a richer and more rewarding life. I already feel more galvanised now that I've kickstarted the process. I am beginning to find my mojo at last.

Allsorts........You have realised that your house is too big and unmanageable. It's a start. It doesn't mean you have to act right now. You can take your time and work up to making the move. Yes it will mean stepping out of your comfort zone but there's no tearing hurry. You will know when the time is right.

I have been mulling it over for a couple of years, it's only now that I have felt ready. Of course it's a huge leap of faith but my heart and all my instincts, as well as logic, tell me it's the right thing to do and that now is as good a time as any.

Try not to worry.......listen to your instincts and follow your heart. Things have a habit of coming right in the end. And since when did worrying ever solve anything,

I came across a great quote this morning.

"If you want a big life, you have to make big decisions and you have to experience big feelings".

Well I do want a big or at least a bigger life. I am not living, I'm existing. I used to have a big life but I've allowed my world to shrink and it's not making me happy. I have no intention of sitting inside 4 walls, waiting to die. I want to expand my horizons (literally). I really do want to start living again. It's 8 years since my husband died, that's quite long enough to be mired in grief, yes I'll always miss him but I can carry him in my heart and into my new life. He will always be with me.

Smiles.....a world cruise, well maybe. ? But first I have to get my teeth fixed and that's going to cost the equivalent of a world cruise. ??. So maybe just a couple of smaller ones. It all depends on how the move goes.

I start looking on RM and I just can't find what I'm looking for so then I get sucked into upping my budget which is stupid. I don't need a large house and big garden. I don't want them, the whole purpose of moving is to downsize, free up my time, money, and energy. I can still have a lovely home without being a slave to it.

I do like this house but increasingly it has begun to feel like a millstone. It just takes up too much of my resources. Allsorts it sounds like you are starting to feel the same way about your house.

As you may know most of my career was spent in property. I learned one very valuable lesson......you can buy a house but you have to create a home. My husband used to joke that I could turn a prison cell into a palace. It's true. It's my thing.

One of my favourite houses that I ever owned was a sweet little one bedroomed cottage. She was a bit of plain Jane at first with a scruffy tatty yard. I furnished her with love and care and turned the unloved yard into a lovely courtyard garden. (Made 25% profit when I came to sell too. ?).

Sometimes all a house needs is a bit of TLC, you can always turn a plain Into fancy. I would be more than happy with a cute little bijou 1 or 2 bedroom cottage or bungalow. Just need to find the right one.

I am viewing a house next Monday. It's gorgeous but the more I think about it, it's probably too big. It's right at the top of my budget, despite it needing a new kitchen and bathroom and probably a boiler at some point. I can do it, but do really want to rattle around in a large house again,

Hey Ho.....the right one is out there. Finding the right house is a bit like finding the right life partner. The one that makes you happy isn't necessarily the one you thought you'd end up with. ?.

Sometimes you have to kiss a lot of frogs, and sometimes you still end up with the wrong one. The wrong house, the wrong partner it's all the same. But when you get it right then Bingo.

Whiff has certainly got it right with her new house. Smiles too. Take heart, Allsorts - your time will come, you will be ready and you will find your little dream house.

I've blitzed the lounge and my bedroom this morning. Will tackle the kitchen and then potter in the garden, keeping mainly in the shade. I bought a tray of half dead marigolds yesterday for £1. Drenched them last night and they've perked up nicely, will plant them out this evening when it's cooler.

Maybe a siesta this afternoon. ?

Hugshelp, Ooh that sounds promising. Unless there is something really amiss like subsidence then most housing problems can be fixed. The ones you really can't change are the neighbourhood so yes it really is all about location, location, location. And nice neighbours are the icing on the cake. Mine are brilliant but I always remember the old saying. "good fences, make good neighbours"

How perplexing is your sons reaction. I know this might be a strange thing to say but I sometimes wonder if all this therapy actually does any good. I think there is a danger it can make people too introspective. Too much navel gazing and not enough action.

Grief, sorrow, stress, trauma are part of life, we can't run away from it, anymore than we can stop breathing. It's part of us. It's what makes us what we are. No one lives a charmed life.

We are always being told that we have to let our emotions have full rein but sometimes I wonder if maintaining a stiff upper lip and being stoical is such a bad thing after all. It's worrying that your son finds it necessary to turn you into some kind of monster that he can blame for all his woes. So wrong and he will never find peace and contentment whilst he has that mindset.

My father was a very difficult man and my childhood was less than idyllic but I very quickly realised that sooner or later you have to stop blaming your childhood for your own failings as an adult. I vowed I wasn't going to let it hold me back and destroy my chance of a happy life.

My MIL a had a difficult childhood and she allowed it to ruin her life. She carried misery and bitterness with her all her life. So sad when that happens, a total waste of a life.

You can't go through life blaming everyone .......you have to assume responsibility for your own happiness.

One of life's greatest lessons is to learn that you cannot look for happiness from outside sources, first it has to come from within oneself.

A lesson our EACs don't seem to have grasped yet.

The problem is, when the relationship is so fragile, anxiety and fear is ever present. With a 'normal' relationship with an AC, you don't notice if they don't contact you regularly, but when you've already been estranged and/or fear that it might happen, that reduced level of contact is distressing.

We're OK if we go for two weeks not hearing from DS but then if we message him and he doesn't respond promptly, we start to worry. Not about estrangement but if he's OK because Aus. is such a long way from here.

children are all your life, you are a part of theirs your dad was spot on Allsorts and it's when you're not even a part, even a small part, that's so devastating.

Oh yes the roof terrace looks and feels very tropical ATM and we're really enjoying this fabulous weather.

It's not you who is wrong PP. That's what they want us to believe and what they have to believe themselves to behave so badly toward their own parents, and be able to sleep at night.

Started my post an hour ago but got interrupted so I'll read the ones I missed now.

There's no doubt estrangement can annihilate your confidence DSL as can walking on eggshells, trying to shore up a relationship from one side etc. I do hope you can find a way to invest love in yourself to make you feel better. The friends I have made through my writing hobby have done wonders for my self-esteem though without the wonderful people on this thread I would never have tried new things or talked to new people because I really was rock bottom when I found this thread. Good luck with the next house viewing.
I have to say our son seems to get more and more unhappy and angry the more therapy he has. I can only hope he works through it all in the end. My own parents were broken people and I had some anger and grief to work through but I did so in my own way and yes a fair amount of stoicism came into play when needed. Now I just accept they weren't perfect any more than the rest of us, maybe a bit more broken than most - but their own lives broke them and I'm sure they did their best with what they had.

What you say about the anxiety and fear in fragile relationships is so true smiles. Constantly trying to live with someone else's idea of how you should be, which is usually unrealistic and/or unreasonable is soul-destroying.

House hunting in this heat is sweaty work! We've seen one we really like and are doing sums and trying not to get too hopeful - it's on the high end of our budget so we need to work out costs etc. But at least we're done sweltering in traffic jams for the day and plan a stroll when it's cooled down a bit.

Cant believe I'm posting on this forum. I never thought this would happen to us.
I've had a nervous breakdown which resulted in me being sectioned 300miles from my home in the clothes I stood up in. I was traumatised for 12 days but the section was recinded and I was sent home. I continued to be unwell and cut myself off from everyone except my husband. Slowly very slowly the drugs began to work and now i am really well. I have been in touch with my son and grandchildren for the last 6 weeks and then on Sunday we decided to surprise them with a visit the journey took 4 hrs. My son opened the front door and said *oh no mum you cant just turn up hre i have to protect my girls from you i dont know what you are going to say to them you have already upset The 6yrr old by telling her that you were moving and she was worried about her fairy garden. My husband was white with anger and told him he was out of order but he wouldnt budge so we went back home. I was distraught and started having panic attacks again. I have not heard from him or the gc for a week and my heart is breaking. Tbh I sensed there was something amiss before we went just a gut feeling as he was only allowing facetime supervised by him. I know its fear that's behind this but unless he sees me how will he know he can trust me around the children his wife whom I adore wouldnt come out to speak to me. I don't think I'll ever forgive him for being do cruel and I actually feel ashamed of him

DSL thank you for your wise advice regarding selling up, I just feel scared of making the wrong choices, as if I have no opinions left.
May 7, please do not just turn up at your dons again, I fully understand you wanting to and your son was out of order but you need to protect your mental health. You have been through so much and I'm glad the section was reminded. Your husband sounds so supportive and caring. You cannot alter your son attitude to your illness, so manybpeopkexare judgemental and dismissive of mental illness, yet it can happen to any of us, you can accept you that you must recover fully. His reaction to you only he can change, maybe he will but if not accept what you cannot alter and build on the certainties you do have. Learn to love yourself again, unfortunately as you can see from the posts on here, many are estranged. Many times when I was going through bad times with my daughter, I felt I had no one, I never admitted to friends as I felt ashamed. Sometimes when I went to bed I would pray not to to wake up. I look back and realise how wrong I was and close to a breakdown. I realised in time I had not intentionally done anything wrong, had apologised for things I hadn't done, tried to change to become different, but truth was she had made up her mind. We are conditioned as mothers to make things right, it's realalising we can't that frees us. Stop worrying and do some nice outings with your husband, drive to the country or the coast build up your closeness with him, always there for you.?

Sorry forvtge mistakes that change the words when I press send.

Thank you all sorts. It's just all so raw at the moment. I've no intention of contacting him at all but I am truly heartbroken and terrified of slipping back into depression again

Good Morning everyone.

Hello May. So sorry to hear your sad tale. I am glad to hear that you are making a recovery from your breakdown. It's such a shame that your son and DIL have reacted so badly to your illness. It is as Allsorts says, its on them, you have done nothing wrong. Would they react the same way if say, you had broken your leg. Of course not. I don't know why some people react so badly when confronted with things like mental illness and breakdowns. Fear and misunderstanding probably. Some people don't realise it's just illness, nothing more nothing less.

I see a breakdown as no more than the brain doing its job, ie shutting everything down so that it has chance to heal and the body can rest. A bit like a computer rebooting itself.

I am sorry if that sounds flippant but I see these things as the body's way of taking "time out". Nothing whatsoever to be ashamed of and no reason at all for your son to go off the deep end. A total over-reaction.

How you must be hurting, it's the final insult really after all you've been through. Thank goodness you have such a lovely caring and supportive husband by your side.

I hope you find comfort and support on this thread. Give yourself time to heal and fully recover. As for your son.....I honestly don't know ......I think maybe just take a step back for now and concentrate on you and your lovely husband. Adopt a wait and see policy for now. Enjoy the summer with your husband, rest and recuperate. Spend quality time together. He's been through a lot too, worrying about you, looking after you and witnessing that awful scene on Sunday. Look after each other.

Allsorts......I know exactly what you mean about being scared of making the wrong choices. I have found this too.....I,have become an expert at procrastinating, suffering from Analysis Paralysis, overthinking things and not taking action. I never used to be that way, it's only since my confidence took such a battering as a result of what I have endured with my son and DIL.

When our adult children turn on us it takes away our self esteem and confidence. I feel sometimes that I've lost a part of myself. I've become more fearful, more unsure of myself. I am even struggling with driving these days......

That's why I need to move. I need to reassert myself, and find myself. Moving might sound drastic but I honestly think it's the way forward for me. A total fresh start and a new beginning. Like smiles and Whiff have found I,think,it's a way of drawing a line under the past and paving the way to a better future.

In my case there are also a lot of additional benefits, ridding myself of a house that is just superfluous - too big, too much maintenance, to much time and energy expended, Time to free up my time, energy and money to spend on building a more interesting and rewarding life.

I have friends in RL, all widowed who have done the same. They have seriously downsized, they have all said it's liberating.

Thankfully a bit cooler today. The heat wiped me out, feeling much better today.

Thank you *
Derbeyshirelass wise words

A very warm welcome to this support thread May and this group of lovely ladies whose compassion, understanding and common sense knows no bounds.

My mum had a nervous breakdown. It was a terrifying experience for her and everyone who loved her, so where I can understand your son's concerns I can neither understand or condone the way he chose to communicate those fears to you.

He's been facilitating contact with face time which is great, and supervising those sessions which is understandable, so what he should have done is talk to you and tell you about his concerns. He should have also explained that for the time being this was the only form of contact they were happy with. That would no doubt have stopped you from going there uninvited which it seems is never a good idea, even though it seems more acceptable for our AC to come to us uninvited.

With or without your health issues, people move, GP's move and even if this was said to your GD as a result of your illness, and isn't something you'll be doing, for your son to say he has to protect his daughters from you because the 6 year old is upset about losing her fairy garden, IMO is ridiculous. The fairy garden could, and no doubt would be moved/recreated in the garden of your new home.

My intention of visiting was to allay her fears in person. Tbh I dont understand why I even know about it he could have sorted it out himself and told her nanny would make her a new one without even telling me. I feel like hes punishing me through daughter. I have to stay angry at him because if I continue to cry my depression will tear its ugly head he said he loved me and I said no he didnt or he wouldnt do this to me. I just feel so ashamed of him I didnt know he could be so unkind knowing how I'll I've been it eouldnt have hurt him to have hugged me and told mr to come back when children were in bed. I wanted to see them but primarily I wanted to see my 40 yr old boy.

Sorry, posted too soon.

The road to recovering from a nervous breakdown is long and will need every ounce of your strength, so that's what you need to focus on. You have your lovely H at your side and I hope other family and good friends who you can rely on for help, support and understanding.

Your son needs time to come to terms with what's happened. It's truly awful to see your mum go through something like this and I hope with time that he'll see his response was wrong and that he needs to communicate in an appropriate way, his fears and concerns relating to this.

You have done nothing wrong. You've been ill and are in the process of recovering from that illness. Do as Allsorts has suggested and make the most of this lovely weather and spend time with your lovely H.

The medication which does take time to 'kick in' is making you feel well again so try not to worry about becoming depressed again. There will be peaks and troughs, it's the nature of the illness and the recovery process so don't be afraid .

Big decision are always scary Allsorts. I had no doubts whatsoever about moving here but was worried about Mr. S. because he hadn't want to move and only did so for me, but I needn't have worried, he's as happy here as I am. No regrets for either us and I think you just know when you walk through the door and see your potential new home for the first time, that it's the right one for you.

Moving has certainly been liberating for us DSL but not because we down sized,we didn't, we up sized. From a 3 bed semi to a 4 bed end of terrace over 4 floors with 2 living rooms, study area, enormous kitchen/diner, separate utility room, big family bathroom and en suite shower.

Goodness, it is big for 2 people but we just fell in love with it so much so that we offered the full asking price at the time of the first viewing. Best house we've ever owned.

Just seen your latest post May and wanted to say that we've been estranged for 9.5 years from our youngest son and only GC, and even now, it is my anger that keeps me going. Even now, I cannot afford to be sad, to give into those feelings of heartbreak because they almost destroyed me and I can't take that risk again .

I'm going to have to wait the long game I think we have just bought a new static caravan and that will occupy me . I'm trying to distract myself but when I have a problem I go to bed and put my head under the covers that's the start of the depression so I'm getting up early and trying to focus but it's very hard. I'm a great reflector but tend to catastrophise it's so difficult for us both. My daughter had mental health problems and he told her what had happened she took his side and told us not to visit her either. Now I cant believe he burdened herewith this but she had just reacted badly and because of her mental state I can forgive her but I'm worried about her

Welcome May7 I cannot offer you any wiser words than the lovely people above already have. I know when I first found myself estranged it nearly tore me apart and I felt very close to breaking down completely myself. I'm glad the medication is helping and I'm glad you have some positive distractions.
The night are often when we can't turn the thoughts off but it has got better for me over time, much better now though I still have my moments.

I totally know what you mean about getting paralysed by choices in case you get it wrong allsorts. I overthink and second guess myself all the time. I've been going around in circles deciding what's best with house moving but we're pushing on slowly despite me worrying frantically about allsorts of things. I keep picturing smiles and Mr smiles in their lovely happy home and telling myself it's what we need to do too.

Oh May that's horrible. Why on earth did he tell his sister and what has he said? So you turned up uninvited and your H told him his reaction was "out of order", which it was, so what was there to tell his sister?

I'm so sorry and can understand you being worried about your D, especially as she's had mental health problems. What a shame that having experienced this herself, she isn't being empathetic to your plight.

Now that's interesting, you having bought a static caravan, We did the same thing about 3 or 4 years into our estrangement and it was a life saver for me.

We were living just 15 doors away from our ES and I was so unhappy that we began to spend more and more time at our caravan. 3 years ago we upgraded to a brand new lodge on the same site because we love it so much.

It's good fun buying the things you need and those that bring the final homely touch, so this will certainly take your mind off things and if you get half as much pleasure from it as we have, and continue to do, it will make the world of difference.

I made lists hugshelp and accounted for everything financially to make sure it was doable. Despite up sizing, our new home was 20k less than we sold our old house for which was great as the old house had integral appliances which of course we had to leave behind.

It's a huge decision so you're bound to feel anxious. I did even though I was desperate for it to go through and make this fabulous house our new home.

That must have been so difficult for you I am aware of your situation as I have read your post perhaps someone who is an estranged AC can throw some light onto why my son has behaved in this way. I think its fear and also it's about control. He is a primary school teacher and sometimes he forgets who he is speaking too. I'm a teacher myself so I sort of understand that you get used to children doing as they are told but I would never treat my own mother in this way and shes bloody difficult

Isn’t it awful how one persons actions can devastate so many lives, when that person is your own child it’s doubly hard. So pleased that Smileless is in a good place now, I remember how hard it was for her. the move was brave but totally the right thing to do. It breaks the cycle and knowing what the. future holds choosing to stay but moving opens new doors and opportunities.

'I know its fear that's behind this but unless he sees me how will he know he can trust me around the children his wife whom I adore wouldnt come out to speak to me.'

You're absolutely right and I don't think this isn't fixable.

I dont think you should of rocked up unannounced, they needed time to prepare, your son needed to reassure his daughter, his priority is his children.
and maybe they themselves needed time to prepare, maybe that had plans too? And I think you're right saying that he's scared.

I'd message, apologies for the mix up and arrange a time and date that works best for everyone.

Thank you poppyblue for a different perspective. I'm just so hurt that I'm licking my wounds we quite often just rock up unexpectedly and he does the same with us I think that's why I was so shocked because it has never happened before I wasnt awarectgat I needed an invitation

I think those are very wise words poppyblue. A parent's first instinct will always be to protect their children and it might have been an instant over-reaction because he wasn't expecting you and it was a bad moment may7.
It's quite right that we all accept mental illness in the same way as physical illness, but with either we might want time to explain to our kids that someone is coming and they aren't very well and how that might affect things. eg don't worry about the plaster on their leg but do be careful not to bump into their poorly leg.

I think the best thing you can do may7 is check it's convenient before calling, just to reassure him you've heard and understood and I'm sure that will help everyone relax much quicker. But it would also be perfectly reasonable for you to ask him to return the courtesy before he calls on you, if that's what you want.

Nobody calls on me unexpectedly because my health is so variable and I wouldn't want them turning up if I'm in bed and I don't call on my DD for the same reason. It can still be lovely.

We had an offer on a bungalow accepted today. I really do like it and I'm so anxious that nothing goes wrong but I need to give myself a talking to or I'll be a wreck before long. We have spent all week tearing round to find one so I think a nice day off tomorrow will help.