Mum and Dad relationship

Chewbacca

It's actually more my education than my experience.

We are coming to take emotional abuse very seriously.

We are coming to understand children very well and why certain issues exist.

I don't think many people would leave their child alone with someone who sexually or physically abused them.

Now we know that emotional abuse is just as serious.

Now, I would never advise for a child to be left alone with a person who has been known to be abusive.

That's the truth, it is very simple. I cannot say anything else.

And that's the right advice Zonne.

It's no more 'wrong' to take steps you took, to ensure the safety and well being of your children and enable them to have a relationship with their GM, then for a parent who has suffered abuse to prevent a relationship with their abusive parent(s).

You and me both Chewbacca "for years".

Violetsky
I would never presume to advise anyone to allow their parents to have contact with their children.
But I feel personally, that the issue is between me and her, and as far as possible shouldn’t affect them.
In any case, two of them were late teens, and could make up their own minds, and the youngest one was always accompanied by her dad.
I think she bad mouths me to the oldest, and I think she would love to cause trouble there, but I can’t really do anything about that.

For me, it is now an unacceptable risk I would never expect anyone to take...
Would you both, in all honestly advise anyone you cared about to take that risk with their emotional abuser because it worked out for you?

You're again superimposing your experiences and strategies on others vs and challenging them for not making the same decisions as you. Others have had a different route into estrangement, and a different route out; they made their decisions based on what they personally know about the circumstances and the people involved. They know better than any one else. They did what they did and are satisfied that they took the right decisions at the time. You did the same, for the same reasons. Why are you so keen to invalidate them by even suggesting that the decisions they took were wrong?

Similar situation with my DC DiamondLily & Sara1954; my relationship with my mother was untenable but, without a shadow of a doubt, she loved my DC rather too much actually and I never enforced my non contact with her on them. The statement: Every circumstance is different. Your circumstances were yours, not mine is key in any discussion about estrangement, and one I've been repeating on here for years. Casting judgement on other people's decisions, without having the emotional maturity to understand that every relationship breakdown is unique in some way for those involved, and every recovery or coming to terms with the situation, takes a different route for each of us. Failure to recognise and understand those differences, undermines the true lived experiences of others and cannot be considered to be helpful, supportive or kind.

In my case, I did everything I could to eliminate the risks before I let my kids near my mother. I set firm boundaries, reiterated regularly was was and was not acceptable, and limited contact until I was comfortable that the relationship would be different. I think it helped that I had been totally estranged from them for several years before I had the kids, so she was clear I’d walk away again at the first sign of anything amiss.

Also, I recognised that the physical distance would make a massive difference - we were close enough for short regular visits, no need to ever stay over, and far enough away that seeing each other was always a treat for them all. I took myself out of the situation as far as possible, and my husband almost always took the kids, so there were no ‘your mother this, your mother that’ references. It all worked, they had a good relationship, and I’m pleased for my kids.

It is, as people have said, for each of us to decide what we believe is best for our children - and that’s the only advice I’d ever give anyone facing these kind of choices.

Two things can be true at once.

Bit of schrodingers cat situation.

The grandchildren abused

The grandchildren not abused

You both made a decision which turned out to be fine for you.

I don't see how either of you would need to worry about or feel bad about it in retrospect and can leave it there.

For me, it is now an unacceptable risk I would never expect anyone to take...

Would you both, in all honestly advise anyone you cared about to take that risk with their emotional abuser because it worked out for you?

DiamondLily
My mother is a different grandmother to mother.
She has always loved my oldest daughter, and they are still close.
She was never as interested in the younger ones, but they do continue to visit.
My brothers children, much younger than mine seem to be very fond of her, but she has very little interest in the great grandchildren.
I also never tell the children what she is really like, they know I don’t like her, that’s good enough.
Interestingly, after a visit, my eight year old grandson said to me, that he thought it was really sad that my own mum didn’t like me, so I guess they all pick up on it.

VioletSky

When I took a break before estrangement I offered for them to see my children and they said no, not without me.

Then my older children started telling me why they didn't want to see them, so I made the decision for the younger children who... Well weren't bothered.

Now, I wish I had estranged myself and my children earlier.

Maybe it's OK to let children see them but given how abusive people manipulate children and how long it took me and my older children to figure it out...

Well...

Taking a risk with your children's mental health just because you can't be sure the person who abused you would abuse them...

Not a risk I would take now I know better

Every circumstance is different. Your circumstances were yours, not mine.

I made my decision, and I'm glad I made the decision I did for my children.

I didn't risk anything. ?

They have nothing but golden memories of their Nan and Grandad.

They were loving, caring grandparents and great grandparents.

I didn't allow my relationship with my mother to influence my children, or tip into how they felt about any of it. Not their problem.

She was what she was, I accepted that, and I have moved on, as I have since I became an adult. I can't change the past, or my childhood, and I give it very little thought.

Escalated.?

Icer123. I really think this anger over something so trivial is not a healthy environment for your son. I would think your father avoiding confrontation is self explanatory. I couldn't imagine drafting and sending such an email to my own parents. I feel sorry for your son he is caught up in all this anger. You could have easily have just said over pencil comment, oh we will give it back next time,.Difussed and not excavated. No problem. You have your mind made up but I wouldn't expect an apology.

Interesting.

We only ever know one side of the situation on GN. And I can remember countless times that advice should be given based on what we know from the OP. So that is what we have done.

I think OP already knew what the next steps were and was just looking for support to take them

Delila

Nothing is clear when we only hear one side of a situation, and great care should be taken when giving advice on any delicate family matter like this one.

I agree Delila

Advice on family relationships given on a forum like this should be treated with caution. Posters' advice could well be influenced by their own experiences and we only know one side of the story.

Nothing is clear when we only hear one side of a situation, and great care should be taken when giving advice on any delicate family matter like this one.

Cut them off completely - they’re not going to change and you’ll be happier and a better parent for doing it. Ask your child’s football coach if they can ask your father to leave and make it clear he’s uninvited and unwanted. Continue the therapy and don’t give them a second thought. They clearly don’t deserve it.

When I took a break before estrangement I offered for them to see my children and they said no, not without me.

Then my older children started telling me why they didn't want to see them, so I made the decision for the younger children who... Well weren't bothered.

Now, I wish I had estranged myself and my children earlier.

Maybe it's OK to let children see them but given how abusive people manipulate children and how long it took me and my older children to figure it out...

Well...

Taking a risk with your children's mental health just because you can't be sure the person who abused you would abuse them...

Not a risk I would take now I know better

It was the same for me DiamondLily but somehow we managed to get through it and ended up with a lovely relationship, one I'd never have thought possible.

She died last year and I miss her.

JosieGc

It looks like OP has left & after reading some of the insensitive comments on here, especially from yesterday, I really don’t blame them. I will be following them. This thread makes for very uncomfortable reading indeed - this is a person in pain. Dreadful.

Sadly

Smileless2012

I agree DiamondLily. I didn't see my parents in law for about 7 years but the thought of preventing them from seeing their GP's never entered my mind.

Mr. S. continued to see his parents every week and took the boys on a regular basis. The issues I had with my m.i.l. were mine, not theirs.

I did go NC with my ex MIL, but that was because her toxicity was directed towards my kids. It was a no brainer.

But, my mum (and dad) were nothing but loving towards my children, (and later, my grandchildren).

I'd have chosen them if I could!?

I agree DiamondLily. I didn't see my parents in law for about 7 years but the thought of preventing them from seeing their GP's never entered my mind.

Mr. S. continued to see his parents every week and took the boys on a regular basis. The issues I had with my m.i.l. were mine, not theirs.

JaneJudge

It was your choice to let her carry on a relationship with them. I imagine if you had seen those behaviours she applied to you repeated with your own children your choice may have been a different one

Of course. The children should always come first. Adult relationships are secondary.

I'd like to know what your son was threatened with if he lost the pencil?

I would like to just repeat - my inheritance comment was a joke.

They don’t have much money to start with!!

I’m leaving this now, thanks to those who have messaged me.

Bye ?

Looks as if a donation to a charity would be the way to go Chewbacca.