8 things we should avoid saying to an estranged child.

Good for you

This may be helpful

www.mentalfloss.com/article/93521/7-tips-eliminating-toxic-people-your-life

Hello All! I wanted to share my experience as an estranged son.

I was not abused as a child. On the contrary, my sibling and I have always felt I was the Golden Boy in my mother’s eyes. My mother will claim to have treated us equally at all times, but this is far from true. I do and have always loved my mum with all my heart. I cannot, however, say that I like the person she is. This became front and center when my wife came into the picture.

I must admit, much of the blame lies at my feet. My mother has always had the kind of personality that projects kindness on the surface, her mean-spirited behavior was always there. I should have been more protective of my wife and our relationship much earlier. There is too much to write, so I will try to truncate the build-up to estrangement from my parents.

Over time I began to notice a weird “competition” my mum seemed to have with my wife. It was hard for her to not be the “no. 1” woman in my life anymore, and she showed it through passive aggression and outright aggression toward my wife. My wife couldn’t take it anymore and vented to me one night when she was pregnant with our oldest. I was defensive; my mum was my mum. But I knew inside my wife wasn’t exaggerating as my mum would accuse her of. Constant criticism in the form of backhanded compliments, mostly said with me out of earshot. Attempts to steamroll her when it came to the baby. I witnessed an incident when our first child was unwell as a baby. My wife asked for him back to soothe him. My mum would shoo her away. Happened multiple times until my wife began standing up for herself. I had to intervene myself on an occasion. Constantly offering her unsolicited opinion on who should care for our child when we returned to work. Was critical of the way my wife fed our child. Refused to change her clothes after smoking while basically demanding to hold our baby. Coming over unannounced regularly because she had “rights” to her grandchild. Demanding we set up a regular schedule for visits. Making me feel awful and emotionally blackmailing with tears when I wouldn’t pressure my wife to comply with her wishes. I feel awful for how cowardly I was with her to this day. She experienced some post partum depression when my oldest was 6 months. I was young and inexperienced and did not support her as best I could. Didn’t know how. My mum knew this an tried to exploit it. She became quite cold to my wife and could not fathom that my priority was my own nuclear unit. I didn’t see her as often as she liked and she blamed my wife.

But none of that made me even imagine cutting off contact. The worst of the behavior started when she began to resent my wife standing up for herself and holding her boundaries. Our boundaries. My mum would get my dad involved. My dad has always allowed my mum to run the show to the point of being an enabler of her mistreatment. They sat me down one day and asked if they could start seeing me at least once a week with the baby…and without my wife. They started going on and on about how I’ve changed. How my wife was tearing our family apart. Starting talking absolute nonsense about how they think she drains me. My wife has been my best friend since before we had a first date. That’s when my eyes opened completely. I told them straight out that my family unit was an all or nothing group. That it was horrible and inappropriate of them to even consider asking me to exclude my wife. That no relationship with her child will be had without her. I left and decided to put space between my parents and my family for a bit. During that time, I struggled from the stress of being a new dad, being a supportive husband, and being a good son. In a moment of weakness, I called my mum to smooth things over. Admittedly I responded with great anger during our last conversation, so I apologized for the manner in which I expressed myself but not the sentiment. I didn’t apologize for what I said, only how it was said. I also vented about a private matter between my wife and I. Worst betrayal I have ever done to my wife. My mum pounced on it and shared even though she promised never to. She started telling family and family friends terrible things about my wife. Many many lies. Much of the gossip got back to us. Apparently she had this creepy fantasy idea that I would leave my wife, take our child and move back with my parents. As if we’d just play happy family. When I confronted her she of course lied. I was incensed. There were things that got back to us that could only have come from her because she was the only living soul I spoke to about a particular incident. My wife was crushed. She considered separation because of the betrayal. My mum called my parents in law to bash my wife, saying she was wrecking our family. My parents in law rightfully told my mum never to call them gossiping about their daughter again. So she went around bashing them behind their backs as well. I asked her to apologize to us and she refused. She lied and continued to blame my wife for the row. I told her my family needed space and that until an honest accounting can be done, we needed distance. She then began getting others involved. My dad and sibling were first to do her bidding, attempting to make me view my wife as the problem. Then aunts, uncles, grans etc. I began to distance from them all because they couldn’t respect that I had no desire to discuss the situation with them, that it was inappropriate for them to insert themselves in what did not involve them. I would have been perfectly happy to maintain ties with those relatives if they only respected my right to protect my wife and child and dictate who I allow in our lives. But naturally, the story is “she’s isolating him from his family”. I was tired of my wife being everyone’s punching bag. I chose her over them because my loyalty should and always will be with her. Many years and 3 children later, I have no relationship with my parents. They don’t know my children. I’d be open to reconciliation if they’d only admit how horribly my wife was treated and apologize. Apologize for trying to come between us. But they won’t. To this day, they slander us to any and all. I don’t care. The four people who love me most in this world are the family I created. I’d choose my wife every single time. My children are happy and not deprived of any love whatsoever. They are close with my parents in law. They are a loss to my parents, not the other way around. Our family members who chose not to take sides are close with the kids. They have our best friends. I guess the reason I am posting is because estrangement is always only “justified” by some if there is childhood abuse. Well those who think that are wrong. Adults must respect other adults. It doesn’t matter if you are parent or son/daughter. I don’t even use the oxymoron of term ‘Adult Child’. I will always be their son. I will always love them. But I will protect my nuclear unit from toxicity no matter the source. That doesn’t make me a bad or indecent person. Just because I wasn’t abused as a child doesn’t mean me choosing no contact/estrangement is wrong.

To add, the thing not to say to me is “You only have one mother and father”. That fact doesn’t mean you owe them your peace and happiness. As others have said, most people estrange to protect their peace. Everyone deserves to be happy.

It’s so dismissive obnoxious.

Hi stiller

You so made the right decision

I'm so glad you and your little family are away from all that now

Hello Stiller welcome to GN and thank you sharing your experience with us.

You're right of course, that everyone deserves to be happy and I'm glad that you have found both peace and happiness but sorry for what you had to go through to achieve it.

You've done everything possible to avoid this awful situation of having to choose between your mother and your own family Stiller, and your mother should never have put you in that position. Passive aggressive behaviour is cowardly behaviour; hiding what they really mean and want to say behind a veneer of caring about you; your wife must have found that intolerable. You've clearly come to your decision with a great deal of thought, time and consideration and, personally, I think you've made the right decision. You've ensured that your children have access to extended family, they're loved by all, so no recriminations from me.

And I also agree with you about the oxymoron of "Adult Child"!

Wonder what your mother in laws take on it would be is she was here?

I know she’s your mum but she sounds like a monster, your post reads like a script for a creepy psychological drama.

You’ve made good choices, good for you.

Welcome, Stiller. It sounds like you were definitely pushed into choosing your wife or your mother. Thank goodness you saw the light and you have the family you deserve.

Thank you everyone for the kind words. I don’t want to put out the impression that my mum has no redeeming qualities. She can be very kind when she wants to be. Though she would have definitely tried to dismiss our wishes as parents—she already had with the oldest multiple times— I genuinely feel she loved her grandson for the short amount of time she was in his life. I wouldn’t have just cut her off simply because I know she’d have walked through fire for him. She just went too far with hurting us. She is also quite charismatic and has a decent amount of “friends”. I used the quotes because I have always noticed mum surrounded herself with ‘yes’ people. It was very hard for her to encounter boundaries. My mum gets her way 95% of the time. This is why I tried so hard to make things work. It’s just terrible that her need to be right trumped her desire for peace in her family.

@Sara1954 my mother in law didn’t have much of a clue about the turmoil until my mum called her. As much as she hates my wife, my wife was protective of my mum in that she shielded her family from the details because she knew they’d never forgive my mum for treating her so poorly. The same wicked woman who was “stealing her boy away” was trying not to tarnish her image. But after the call my wife said she told her family everything. They no longer speak to my mum, as predicted.

My SIL is pregnant and she told my wife she wouldn’t have agreed to start a family unless my brother agreed to put great physical distance between my parents and them. When the drama was happening, my mum tried to put my brother against us. He and his then-girlfriend couldn’t fully understand because they weren’t yet parents or even married. They understand now. We are still quite close to this day. I am close with my maternal gran also. They both stopped being my mum’s mouth piece and see how wrong that was. Families are complicated. I hate the fracture, but have never wavered in my decision. I wake up to my best friend and our little ones every day and know I made the right choice. Still, I say without shame that I will always love my mum and dad.

Sorry Stiller, I meant mother!

Not mother in law, I was wondering if she would manage to make us believe your wife is the problem.

I think your posts are very well written and balances Stiller. She's your mum and despite all you've been through, here you are telling as about the better side of her nature.

You sound lovely and I hope you don't mind my saying so. Some relationships just can't be fixed no matter how much we wish they could be, and no matter how much we love the person whose the other one in that broken relationship.

"I say without shame that I will always love my mum and dad" and there's no shame in that. Be proud of who you are Stiller.

The old adage of "You can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family" was thought up by someone with a family like yours Stiller. Enjoy the family you chose and created.

Thank you Smileless! I appreciate that.

@Sara1954 No doubt she’d put forth a convincing tale of an evil daughter in law whose goal was to separate me from my family. A daughter in law who sought to exclude her from being part of her grandchild’s life. A daughter in law who she only wanted to help. The truth is, my wife was behind the scenes often discouraging me from confronting my parents. She’d always say “from now on, I will just politely address the overstep or rudeness in the moment. Don’t add fuel to the fire”. And she did. I was quite proud of how firm but respectful she was. But my parents of course were never privy to these conversations. All they saw was me doing my wife’s bidding. My mum would cry about how my wife didn’t want her to be as close to our son as her own mother. My MIL saw my son less than my mum, but my mum didn’t know that. So she’d go round telling people my wife was keeping her away. My wife was a 30 year old nurse when we had our first. My wife was also very independent and a bit private with everyone but me. When mum found out my MIL wouldn’t be in the delivery room or staying at our house right after the birth, she took it upon herself to claim that “spot”. When my wife declined overnight guests, she accused her of shutting her out for the first time. When my wife went through her post partum depression, she didn’t feel up to attending family functions. My mum accused her of isolating. My mum would come over unannounced when I was at work to sit with the baby for hours. My wife asked for her to give her a ring prior to popping by. She accused my wife of forcing her to make appointments to see her grandchild. When we were all together, my mum would offer what was apparently outdated advice. If my wife responded, “thanks but we do it this way because such and such”, my mum would look visibly annoyed at my wife not doing what she told her to. She labeled my wife difficult because my wife wasn’t open to being “guided” by her. My wife treated my mum the same as my MIL when it came to the baby in the sense that she had a “thank you, but I’ve got it” approach. But my mum wouldn’t know this. She labeled my wife disrespectful. She was far from disrespectful, and frankly I wouldn’t have allowed my mum to be treated as such. Mum told everyone my wife was isolating me from family. The decision to cut contact with those who constantly inserted themselves into the conflict was mine. But my mum will say my wife has changed me. The only thing that changed in me was my ability to stand up to her. I had to man up. To this day my wife doesn’t speak ill of my parents to me. She understands that even after all they’ve said and done, it would hurt me to hear her bash them. But let my mum tell it, my wife has poisoned me against her and dad.

Stiller you have been very brave to protect your family and tell us much of the story. I wish I had estranged my mother when she was at her worst, probably that was the first ten years of our marriage. I didn’t have the courage because I had been brought up all through my childhood that family, especially mother, came first. Her wants and needs first before our wants and needs as children. I also wanted our children to have grandparents and like your mum, she did love the children even though she criticised our parenting of them and sometimes was horrible to them. She was like a person with two personalities, sometimes nice, sometimes horrible. And she hid her cruelty from the rest of the family, they would never have believed me if I’d told them the things she said. And anyway my dad loved the children very much. If I had estranged her, by necessity, I would have estranged him, and he didn’t deserve that. Anyway I didn’t have the courage mainly because I brought up to be docile and do as I was told. For people like me, and so many others, life is very difficult because there’s no peace. I’m in a better place re my mother now than I have ever been, but it’s taken my whole life to get here. Partly that’s because I’m in control now where as my mother is is unable to even stand up on her own. I manage her affairs and visit her, but she doesn’t control me now. She still tries, it’s sad really, when I haven’t been for a couple of days, she always tells me she’s been poorly for several days. I know she hasn’t, she’s just trying to make me feel guilty for not going for the last two days. I still visit regularly but not as often as before.

Chewbacca

I've read your posts maddyone and I've frequently wondered how you've had the patience and wherewithal to maintain the relationship with her that you have - I'm afraid I'd have given up long ago. One consolation, if needed, is that you've been a far better daughter to her than she has probably been to you. Your conscience should be crystal clear.

Thank you Chewbacca, that is so kind of you.

VioletSky

grandtanteJE65

Query: how do you say anything to a person you are estranged from?

Estrangement means you are no longer on speaking terms, doesn't it?

Things we should avoid saying to any estranged child we might meet...

Ive lost the plot here already - why is there a list of things that should not be said to someone you are not talking to?

or is it a list of things to not say to a person whom you know to be estranged from someone else??

sorry I just cant grasp what I'm looking at.

Baggytrazzas

VioletSky

grandtanteJE65

Query: how do you say anything to a person you are estranged from?

Estrangement means you are no longer on speaking terms, doesn't it?

Things we should avoid saying to any estranged child we might meet...

Ive lost the plot here already - why is there a list of things that should not be said to someone you are not talking to?

or is it a list of things to not say to a person whom you know to be estranged from someone else??

sorry I just cant grasp what I'm looking at.

It's a list of what some people think "you" shouldn't say if a person says they are estranged from family members, usually their parents. ?

DiamondLily

Baggytrazzas

VioletSky

grandtanteJE65

Query: how do you say anything to a person you are estranged from?

Estrangement means you are no longer on speaking terms, doesn't it?

Things we should avoid saying to any estranged child we might meet...

Ive lost the plot here already - why is there a list of things that should not be said to someone you are not talking to?

or is it a list of things to not say to a person whom you know to be estranged from someone else??

sorry I just cant grasp what I'm looking at.

It's a list of what some people think "you" shouldn't say if a person says they are estranged from family members, usually their parents. ?

DiamondLily thanks for clarifying. I can now see the context.