The Hard Truth About Going No Contact With A Parent

You said a very important word in your post Wyllow subtle. In adult relationships where one is abusive it is subtle, if it was obvious you wouldn't become involved with them to begin with.

It's a gradual process that happens over time and it's only when someone is free from that relationship that they as you have done, begin to unpick the behaviour and see that it is indeed controlling, manipulative and coercive.

The last two sentences of your post @ 07.57 describes our ES's wife exactly and the for us, the distressing situation that our ES and no doubt our GC are embroiled in.

"From the outside he looks like a good man" which is why your D and I'm sure your family were taken in by him Sara. If their true nature was visible from the outset, those that become involved with them in all probability, would have never have done so.

Their view of the world and themselves is so skewed that they are unable to see that they could possibly be at fault, it's everyone else who is to blame. Their way or no way.

You Willow and your D Sarah have taken a brave and very difficult decision and I wish you and all those involved a positive outcome.

I agree Madgran that not recognising the significance in some child/parent estrangements of a third party is a slippery slope.

Doing so effectively ignores one section of those who have been estranged, cutting them out of the conversation all together and as you've posted, the possibility of providing support as the article can do, for someone facing a choice of the partner or their parent(s).

It cannot be easy to estrange the parents you once had a loving relationship with at the insistence of a partner, any easier than any other reason to estrange.

Between a rock and a hard place especially where there are children involved which is why parents can find themselves being sacrificed.

Wyllow
I think it will be tough, I think he will make her life hell, I genuinely think, that he thinks that he loves her, but his actions say otherwise.

He’s a decent man in a lot of ways, he’s a good father, a good son, very close to his siblings, but as a husband he’s dreadful, I couldn’t have lived with him all of these years.

We have said for years that he needs psychiatric help, because his behaviour is just not normal, and since covid he’s been working from home, and he’s just got worse.

I’m sure she’s doing the right thing, but like you, I think it will be a tough journey.

No Madgran, I get that the scenario is different, all I’m really trying to say is that that if you allow yourself to be distanced and maybe eventually estranged from your family due to the manipulative behaviour of your partner, it would be very hard to go back without destroying your relationship with them.
Once again we come back to needing a peaceful life, especially if children are involved.

This article and I guess this thread is there to support those making a hard decision

Not those making an easy decision, a coerced decision or an emotionally violent decision

I see that Violet and it is a good article. But I think it could also provide support to those making a hard decision to lea e a coercive relationship whether that be parent , child or partner. The article makes relevant points to consider I think in those scenarios, even though coming from a slightly different angle.

I agree with Violet, ACES are very relevant and worth looking into

Sara 1954 thank you, I'm glad you are supporting your daughter. A couple of things that really stand out: their inability to take responsibility for their own actions. if things go wrong, they always blame someone else. And their world view is the only one possible. You are either wrong or right, and because they are nearly always "right", therefore you have to be wrong, mad, insane, weird, not know your own mind.

I’m not condoning it, I think choosing a young girl, who you’ve been with for a very short time, over good and decent parents who you’ve always gotten on really well with, is probably not a very good idea, but I can see how it happens, and then it’s hard to go back.

I'm not sure that scenario is the same as when a coercive relationship is entered. I hope that things worked out for all of uou Sara, it sounds like they did

Wyllow please reach out for some support. Here is one option.

www.victimsupport.org.uk/crime-info/types-crime/domestic-abuse/

I think it is so important for you to find out why this happened. Too many abuse survivors blame themselves when they shouldn't.

It may be a good idea for you to look into ACEs (adverse childhood experiences) too as they can impact our adult relationships.

I'm sorry people are being that way. It is probably best to take a break from those people to give you time and space to recover.

You should be proud of yourself for ending a toxic relationship

You hear lots of really sad stories here from parents whose children have estranged them because of the behaviour of a partner.

My husband had a very close relationship with his parents. But at the beginning of our rather tricky relationship, he said if they weren’t happy with it, he would walk away from them.

Luckily they had the sense not to push him, but he would have done it, that’s the power of love I suppose.

It would have made him very unhappy, but he would have been in absolutely no doubt where his loyalties lay

I’m not condoning it, I think choosing a young girl, who you’ve been with for a very short time, over good and decent parents who you’ve always gotten on really well with, is probably not a very good idea, but I can see how it happens, and then it’s hard to go back.

Assigning blame for a parent/child relationship on a third party is a slippery slope

Not recognising the possibility in some cases is also a slippery slope. Coercive relationships do exist and isolation from family is a classic part of that, well recognised. I am not saying that that is always the case in estrangement, ofcourse it isn't, all cases are different, but not recognising the possibility is as blind as not recognising that there are cruel and abusive parents who exist, (or whatever reason given by anyone who is estranged - estranged or estranged)

Wyllow
One of my daughters is about to divorce her husband for very similar reasons.
I have warned her to expect criticism, because from the outside, he looks like a good man.
But he’s manipulative, bullying (not physical) extremely mean although he earns a very good salary.
I could go on, but my point is that I completely understand your feelings, do what you need to do, other people aren’t living your life.

HousePlantQueen

As someone who has been fortunate to not have suffered from emotional abuse or to have had to consider going no contact, I found this article very interesting. The most pertinent point I think is the comparison to an abusive spouse and divorce which nobody would criticise you for. to those on here who have made the difficult decision.

Oh, but some people DO judge me for divorcing my coercively abusive spouse, because he has M Health problems....... and some think its my duty to Stand By My Man despite some appalling events which have needed months to understand and unpick. .....His own mother agrees with me. I had the whole cycle of love bombing then slowly being subtly undermined and being controlled but trying to make things better for him. It wasn't all one way the caring of course over time but you realise in the end with an abuser whoever they are has a way of thinking that cannot comprehend other's worlds, in the end it's all about them. Fortunately his behaviour was witnessed at points and in the end I sound recorded and screen shot mails and texts and involved the police. And he wrote nasty stuff to DiL so they know. But what I'm trying to unpick is, what was it in me that allowed me to become accepting for so long, and try to mend someone being abusive. (we're talking covert narcism here, although it borders into malicious at times.). I dont wish for total no contact at least until a divorce sorted.

The article brings back some bitter memories.

There was never a moment when I actually broke with my parents and told them I was not going to see them again. I just gradually withdrew from the point where I moved to another city to study and never returned to the one of my birth. My visits grew less and less frequent and more of a chore.

After uni my new career involved overseas travel and I just made that travel appear a lot more frequent and sustained than it actually was. There were mobiles then but very expensive to use outside UK. No smart phones and my parents did not have a clue about email.

I think that is known as "ghosting" rather than estrangement per se.

Other people do not live the subtle nuances of our lives and relationships so cannot judge but some do don't they Mandrake and that just makes an already hard situation even harder.

Unfortunately judgement from others is something that I think everyone living with estrangement faces at one time or another. The one estranging will face it as will the one who has been estranged.

As you posted Sara "You have to be strong and disregard any criticism you might face, and you will". This is so true but as we all know I'm sure, it is easier said than done.

It takes time to come to terms with estrangement and to build resilience to criticism, which often comes from those who have not experienced it or whose experience is completely different to your own.

Your point about taking the line of least resistance is also pertinent. Doing so can be seen as a way of avoiding estrangement but in reality merely puts off the inevitable. Or in a situation as described by Madgran where "an AC has entered a relationship with a third party that for whatever reason is not a healthy one", taking the line of least resistance with that partner can be at the expense of another relationship
resulting in the person/people in that relationship being estranged.

The goal for all of us is to find peace. Criticism and judgement can make it harder to get there but the goal can still be reached.

Other people do not live the subtle nuances of our lives and relationships so cannot judge.

I think only the two people actually in a relationship truly know the dynamics of it, and whether or not it is a healthy one, unless objectively abusive behavior has been witnessed directly. Assigning blame for a parent/child relationship on a third party is a slippery slope.

What VS says about not giving power to the judgement of others on your decision to estrange is so poignant. People will presume to tell you how you should feel and what you should and shouldn’t due to preserve your inner peace, and there is nothing positive for the estranging party to gain from internalizing that judgement. People will presume to tell you your reasons are not truly your own, and that you are weak enough to be manipulated by another but in the end that matters not. That’s their opinion and no one knows your heart better than you do. As long as one is at peace with their decision, all the judgement and misdirected blame in the world cannot snatch it away.

The point is that every version raised in the last few posts is absolutely possible in some cases Just as it is possible that in some cases it is not about " a narrative" or a "refusal to accept" but that an AC has entered a relationship with a third party that for whatever reason is not a healthy one etc etc.

There are so many scenarios that are identified, all possible.
There is the possibility of those different scenarios for different people in different circumstances.

None of this should detract from the powerful article that Violet posted when she started this thread.

Limcha
I think it’s best not to get into the reasons with third parties, it will just muddy the waters.

I would think a few people think I’m being horrible, but they aren’t my problem,

My mother doesn’t blame my husband, tends to use him more as a means to get me to speak to her, she even uses emotional pressure with my grandchildren, nothing will make a difference.

To take Bibbity’s point a bit further, in many instances, even when the estranging offspring verbalizes his or her own reasons there is an unfortunate habit of others presuming to know the mind of heart of the estranging offspring better than they know themselves. What I mean by that is, the spouse will still be blamed no matter what the adult offspring says because the estranged parent or other relatives refuse to accept that the decision was their own. Some relatives need the outside boogeyman to blame for the relationship breakdown because it is a very hard thing to accept that our children do not see our relationship the way we thought they did. As a parent I can understand, but not condone, this denial. I can think of few things more hurtful than my sons whom I’d die for not viewing my love for them the way I do. So I still have some compassion on that front, but as I said before the demonization and refusal to accept the offspring’s feelings and reasons are reconciliation roadblocks.

I think 'other' people can be just as manipulated though and that is why they judge the person who is also being manipulated as they couldn't possibly be so...erm manipulated

It was not my day for the Brian cell

Violet
I think estrangement is about two people only.
You have to be strong and be prepared to disregard any criticism you might face, and you will.

Sometimes it’s easier to take the path of least resistance I would imagine.

Very powerful post VS! I agree 100%.

Madgran77

*I find what happens more is a third party enters and highlights poor behaviour and creates boundaries that were never there previously the AC is put in a position that had not occurred before*

I'm sure in some cases that is the case as you have "found"Bibbity - not sure if you are referring to personal experience, people you have met or through reading.

Equally in some cases that is not the case as there is nothing to highlight in terms of "poor behaviour" , and appropriate boundaries are in place. In some cases the third party influence is not positive for many potential reasons; each case is different ofcourse.

All of the above.

The issue I find is that the one usually blaming the third party is not the one who understands or is with the AC. And so they write their own narrative.

Limcha

Whether or not one continuing a relationship is regarded as a sense of ‘duty’ is up for that individual alone to decide in the case of dysfunctional familial relationships. For some, there is no ‘duty’ to override when they are mistreated. Duty simply isn’t a factor when it comes to suffering and not suffering. We cannot decide for others what their duties are to begin with.

Exactly

This article and I guess this thread is there to support those making a hard decision.

Not those making an easy decision, a coerced decision or an emotionally violent decision.

It's hard enough to do without some of the expectations "others" place on you. The judgement, the declarations that they would "never estrange".

The truth is that they just haven't walked your path.

When someone who hasn't walked your path judges you, it's not really about you at all. It's about them.

If someone wants to make a situation that they aren't involved with, about themselves, it's a red flag.

Amongst all the issues mentioned in the article, it can be the hardest to deal with, that judgement. When you are just struggling to find yourself after being told who you are for such a long time. When trying to find yourself you are constantly tripped up or hit roadblocks of judgement.

Whether those who judge are doing it knowingly or not, they are basically re-traumatising you. It's another form of abuse.

But at some point on that healing journey... it just stops working. You realise the judgement of others isn't about you. It's all about them, their needs, their wants.

Because a good person, a true, kind and empathetic person, just doesn't do that.

So they must be getting something out of it for themselves. Whether that is simply them hiding from themselves the truth of their own paths or something more sinister.. it doesn't really matter.

When you realise other people's feelings about your situation are not your responsibility... it is entirely freeing

You are already flying free while they are held to the ground by the weight of their own unresolved issues