Narcissists are boring

As an 'only' child my dad told me my mum suffered from 'nerves' and that I should ignore when she was difficult or nasty. He did his best to get me away from her whenever he could. He paid another relative to look after me so she could go and work with him, he encouraged me, let me take up hobbies, have a bit of independence, let me spend weekends at the stables and so on. She hated losing her control of me though and didn't let me forget that. Although I didn't receive much empathy or love from my mother, she did like to boast about any achievements I had. I was very close to my dad though, who adored me, and the family member who looked after me weekdays was my saviour. I also had cousins on my paternal side who I could go and stay with. She did not let me mix with my maternal cousins or stay in friends houses. She also lost all of her friends over the years. Mostly they had been 'work' acquaintances who came to see through her.

As I matured I realised how much she was controlling me and I rebelled. I saw how she would lie and manipulate people, she even tried to show me how to do that. From the moment I rebelled, she started hating me, blaming me for her life, gaslighting me, repeatedly telling me I was less important to her than my dad. I started calling her out in front of visitors when she lied to them and was punished for 'contradicting' her. As she was a woman who saw herself as being 'special' and 'of status' this was particularly enraging to her but still she continued to blame me for everything that went wrong or wasn't perfect in her life. Although her behaviour and the 'oddness' of it had come into my consciousness then, I had no one who could explain narccistic personality disorders to me at that stage of my life. Once I did, I moved well away from her until having to move back closer, as she became frail and needed help.

Up until her dying day she put me down while I looked after her affairs for her, got her shopping and whatever else she needed. She insisted I had never done anything for her and repetitively told me and anyone else who would listen, how I had been a lovely little girl who did everything she wanted until suddenly as a teenager I changed. She even berated me to my children.

Since then I have reflected upon just what a difficult and lonely childhood I actually had. I would be told by her that my pastimes were a waste of money that she could have put to better use. She was jealous that my dad loved me and that he encouraged my independence. My husband was just horrified about her treatment of me. She even got him on his own and told him how awful I was. She really believed her own lies - he was so sad to realise this.

I never, ever had a complete discussion with her about her narcissim until she lay dead when I broke my heart, telling her how it had been for me, getting it all out. I (mostly) have peace from her in my head now. She was just so powerful over me. My heart goes out to all of you who have suffered this way.

I had a narcissist for a father, who had an explosive temper.. I didn't find him boring because you never knew when he would erupt or lash out at you.. I could never relax, was always on my guard. It was exhausting and extremely stressful, so bad that I ended up with a stomach ulcer at the tender of 17. I could not leave home fast enough.

Life without constant drama is so sweet.

I'm so sorry you had to deal with that too yogitree

That is definitely not the context I meant for "boring" DSL

Just that they all follow the same patterns and don't have much original thought

The bit about best friend is such a joke, that's what she wanted people to "think" we were, all about keeping up appearances. Mattered far more what she was portraying to the outside world than the reality of our repetitive cycle of a messed up mother daughter relationship where I had to do the majority of the parenting.
Definitely right about no heart and soul, unless it's the one she claims is "breaking" now I've put a stop to the contact. Nearly a year free. It's been freeing.

Caleo

I've found that some people are uncaring some of the time or in some situations, and caring in other situations. The sign of behaviour that is not narcissistic is the person concerned tries to make up for behaviour that hurt you.

some people are just cruel though

After a life time of wondering why I read a book recommended on here 'You're not crazy it's your mother ' and I cried with relief. The whole book described my mother and her actions perfectly. It was very very sad but now I know why.

yogitree I am glad that you 9mostly0 have peace from her in your head x

BigBertha1

After a life time of wondering why I read a book recommended on here 'You're not crazy it's your mother ' and I cried with relief. The whole book described my mother and her actions perfectly. It was very very sad but now I know why.

It's so good isn't it?

Just the title is everything

As I'm currently getting out of a situation (DH) I have read and read (and read) a lot of stuff. Quora is a website that has immense amounts and its helped me immensely.

What has struck me tho is to be careful about using the term too easily, as features of narcissism have quite a lot in common with other conditions (like BPD) and sometimes extreme bi-polarity for some - or combinations. And its also a matter of degree - some narcissism is far more subtle than others.

but what helped immensely was being able to put words/terms to experiences, like "gaslighting", the complexity of lies (ie how much the person knows they are lying or its deliberate and conscious) the idea 'love bombing" followed by withdrawal of love:
of "supply", (aka victims and the role we played)

but just as important what part I played in it - being vulnerable, being an empath, needing to please, being unwilling to see what was glaringly in front of me because of dependency. Believing I couldn't live without him.

I realise its different for a child as you are much more helpless. It then depends a lot who else you have around you and if you have siblings and who you meet as you grow up, whether you become aware of it as a teenager (I didnt, but my sister did).

Wyllow it makes me a tiny bit uncomfortable so I try to clarify that not all narcissists are bad people or abusive.

I follow 2 who are extremely clued up and explain a lot about abuse techniques etc and they have both had therapy to overcome their issues.

But when we talk about abusive narcissists we'll, the clues are often seen in the symptoms caused to their victims.

That's what generally leads people who have come out of abusive situations to the right information and help.

I think boring not the correct term for a narcisstic person, more predictable. Once your eyes are open to that, you get to choose. Like DSL, walk away, if you do, no constant looking back finding reasons, because you never will, never find peace, more not let the past determine your now and future. I've had so much happen to me which I won't go into to and in a situation that I can't ever change because I can't walk away. I do not kept it determine who I am as I can't change other people, bu I won't be their victim.

I agree Allsorts. It’s not about being boring, but the way in which they follow patterns of behaviour is uncanny.

Love bombing (or idolisation) is the dangerous bit as it is very difficult to reject someone being nice to you. They mirror your behaviour by finding out what makes you ‘tick’ and seeming to be a soulmate. Obviously the way this manifests depends on the nature of the relationship - it can be a partner who adores you and wants the life that you do, a friend who understands you like nobody else, a colleague who relies on you above all others etc, but they make you feel needed and loved.

Then they move to enmeshment where they wrap your lives together so that it is only the two of you working on a project, or you lose touch with other friends and family - the crucial thing is that you start to need them instead of their needing you. It can take many different forms, and is gradual but persistent.

Then the devalue stage when you accidentally say or do something that knocks you off your pedestal. You might never know what it was but maybe you can’t do something they want you to, or don’t praise them enough for something they did, but you never go back to where you were in their idolisation stage. They triangulate by bringing in other people- ‘he never does that’ ‘I saw X the other day and s/he suggested we work together on ‘your’ project’ ‘ Y said I should do (a thing you suggested but was rejected) and it’s a great idea’, Z was saying how you look tired/ill/overweight. Maybe you need to go on a diet/stop letting yourself go?’ Again it could be all sorts of different scenarios but the impact is the same - you are being told that you are not important and/or that someone else is talking about you.

Finally the discard, which comes after they have found someone else to do whatever you were doing for them. Best friend, lover, trusted colleague, favourite child - different roles but the same devastation as the enmeshment has meant you have fewer places to turn.

This cycle goes on repeat / they might ‘hoover’ you back with more live-bombing but the devaluation starts more quickly after the first time.

I don’t know if they do it on purpose - some psychologists say they are made that way by abusive parents - but it doesn’t matter really. They do the same things in different ways, and lie, gaslight and triangulate as they go. Some are manipulative, others have explosive tempers (some both), but whatever happens is someone else’s fault and they believe that they are victims, and not recognised for the powerful/kindly/brilliant people they are.

It’s not that they are boring - some are very entertaining, and great company and others not. Some are very successful and others just think they are. They come in all shapes and sizes. What they are though, is dangerous.

I was very good friends and worked closely with a narcissist.
He was anything but boring unfortunately.
He followed the pattern that Doodledog explains; but other than that he was an unpredictable nightmare.
He gas lit me to a ridiculous degree.
He was having affairs with university students on placement, and his wife was a friend and colleague too.
His wife was on MAT leave.
I had to have sick leave due to stress.

Maternity leave; not Multi Academy Trust leave

My son calls me a narcissist, but I am pretty sure its him. I know I have a narcissist parent and I know I married a narcissist (My son's Dad) If you have been abused by a narcissist as a child you're more likely to fall in a relationship with one because it feels familiar.... Fortunately I got out of that relationship.

I find it puzzling how my son can label me a narc when I blatantly am not (But I do wonder if he knows he is and is deliberately trying to project?). I think narcs are boring, but they try to make them selves interesting by creating mystery and intrigue to get other people to chase them, at least that's what my son was doing- and I have stopped chasing for scraps. It's cruel and no one deserves scraps.

If he really thinks I'm the narcissist why hasn't HE gone NC? Instead he baits and sends abuse....I'm definitely Bored!

PS I probably do have narc tendencies as a result of being brought up by a narc... I think many people can have those without being full blown narc?

FannyCornforth

I was very good friends and worked closely with a narcissist.
He was anything but boring unfortunately.
He followed the pattern that Doodledog explains; but other than that he was an unpredictable nightmare.
He gas lit me to a ridiculous degree.
He was having affairs with university students on placement, and his wife was a friend and colleague too.
His wife was on MAT leave.
I had to have sick leave due to stress.

Yes, the pattern is predictable, but the behaviour isn't. It varies according to the situation and also the person. Narcissists are people, not robots, and are not all the same personality.

Your colleague sounds like a nightmare, Fanny. The fallout zone around narcissists can be huge - they sow destruction wherever they go.

The gaslighting varies too, but again the patterns are the same. 'I didn't say that/you are twisting my words/your memory is terrible etc'.
They play the victim - 'I am a nice person and you are making me look bad/You always take things the wrong way/You know I hate it when you do that (or say this, or mention the other thing)/You made me do it.
They tell so many lies that even they can't remember the truth.
They get authority onside, and operate with a thinly-veiled threat that if you upset them there will be consequences.
They use 'flying monkeys' to back them up, whether innocently or otherwise.

It must be exhausting for them!

OnwardandUpward

PS I probably do have narc tendencies as a result of being brought up by a narc... I think many people can have those without being full blown narc?

I don't know OAU. I'm not a psychologist, but I would guess that people could learn narcissistic behaviour patterns but not be a narcissist. We all hear our mothers' voice coming out of our mouths at times, whether she was a narc or not - it's what we learn. It stands to reason that children of narcissists will do it too. A true narcissist has different brain patterns, apparently, caused by something that happens when they are three or four, and those neural pathways are being formed. It's not the same as repeating unhealthy responses to things, which, as I say, is pretty normal.

I don't know either Doodledog, but it's been emotionally draining and unproductive having anything to do with him, sadly.

He gaslights but accuses me of what he himself is doing. I can't be bothered to tell him this because he will not see it and I cannot win, not EVER. I cannot keep putting effort into this relationshit.

(Not that I want to "win", you understand, but I cannot ever be treated well by anyone with such severe amounts of hatred. He has disguised it quite well at times when it benefitted him to do so, but ultimately the hatred is obvious now and I cannot continue with this soul destroying relationshit)

I do understand. It's not about winning, but it would be nice to break even sometimes ?.

'My' narc wasn't a relative, so I could walk away, difficult though it was to do so, but it's not so easy when it's a parent. I wish you well.

(I hesitate to advise, as I am 100% unqualified, but if I were to suggest anything it would be not to worry about 'inheriting' narcissism, but to try to be happy with who you are, and accept that we all get it wrong sometimes, however we were brought up.)

Onward the only way to 'win' with a narcissist, is to stop playing. In my experience a narcissists tried and tested technique is to accuse someone else of doing what they are doing themselves.

If your son is aware that you were raised by a narc then accusing you of being one, is almost certainly going to cause you to question yourself, so don't. I agree with Doodledog, don't worry about inheriting narcissism.

Your son is projecting his own failings onto you. It's what they do.

Excellent and informative posts Doodledog.

OnwardandUpward

PS I probably do have narc tendencies as a result of being brought up by a narc... I think many people can have those without being full blown narc?

We need a certain level, everyone does, self preservation..

Otherwise it's called "fleas" when you pick up learned behaviour...

I remember my mother literaly teaching me how to manipulate people to get my way.

I just couldn't do it as I think I'm on the autistic spectrum and don't have much ability towards lyimg and faking emotions for attention.

So all I could do growing up was be very very quiet to avoid all the family secrets coming out

Plenty of behaviours I did pick up though but stopped when I saw the hurt looks on my own children's faces

But there is something I truly believe:

If you can be accountable and apologise while truly meaning it, you are unlikely to be an abusive narcissist at least...

I've never seen a genuine apology and change in behaviour from a narcissist

There is always an if or a but

Smileless2012

*Onward* the only way to 'win' with a narcissist, is to stop playing. In my experience a narcissists tried and tested technique is to accuse someone else of doing what they are doing themselves.

If your son is aware that you were raised by a narc then accusing you of being one, is almost certainly going to cause you to question yourself, so don't. I agree with Doodledog, don't worry about inheriting narcissism.

Your son is projecting his own failings onto you. It's what they do.

Excellent and informative posts Doodledog.

Thanks Smileless, I have never mentioned it to my son as kids today think they invented narcissism haha. I don't question myself, but I do probably have some narcissistic tendencies as they might be hard to avoid having grown up with one. I don't think I project my failings onto anyone though and have always been willing to admit when something is my fault. Yes, projection is what they do. I still get it from the generation above me and I'm way beyond bored of it.

Yes, great post Doodlebug!

VioletSky

OnwardandUpward

PS I probably do have narc tendencies as a result of being brought up by a narc... I think many people can have those without being full blown narc?

We need a certain level, everyone does, self preservation..

Otherwise it's called "fleas" when you pick up learned behaviour...

I remember my mother literaly teaching me how to manipulate people to get my way.

I just couldn't do it as I think I'm on the autistic spectrum and don't have much ability towards lyimg and faking emotions for attention.

So all I could do growing up was be very very quiet to avoid all the family secrets coming out

Plenty of behaviours I did pick up though but stopped when I saw the hurt looks on my own children's faces

But there is something I truly believe:

If you can be accountable and apologise while truly meaning it, you are unlikely to be an abusive narcissist at least...

I've never seen a genuine apology and change in behaviour from a narcissist

There is always an if or a but

Oh man, that's shocking Violetsky. I never got told how to be manipulative, but it wouldn't have worked anyway. As a child I was constantly in trouble for telling the truth. Unbelieveable isn't it! When you are a bit Autistic and take things literally it's really hard to fake anything so I have always been a bit unpopular with anyone who's not really truthful or high on integrity. You did well to be very quiet. I had to learn it too, but got in loads of trouble before that.

I've also never seen a genuine apology from a narcissist. Very rarely or never an apology at all. If they are desperate enough they may paint themselves a victim, though.