Friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

We didn't see it coming either Hilltop. The shock was overwhelming and looking back, I think it took time to process that it had actually happened.

I did that too, every time I heard the garden gate opening. My heart would stop and for the briefest moment I'd wonder if it was him. Did that for 4 years!!! Even when I knew he wasn't coming back I still did. Good job we moved or I think I'd have driven myself mad.

Just like you Whiff I found 'me' again when we moved even though we moved further away from extended family and knew no one here.

Volunteer work is an excellent idea DL but you really need to be patient with yourself. The illness and loss of your DH, the nastiness of his children and then of course there's Miss D and the never ending drama she creates, TBH I don't know how you've managed at all, never mind as well as you are doing, because you are doing so well.

How many tortuous hours have we all spent Spring dissecting every aspect of our EAC's childhoods? Going over everything in minute detail, looking for where when we first went wrong and then how many times we went wrong after that.

All of us here are imperfect people, who became imperfect parents and did our best for our imperfect children.

Your mum was fortunate in you DL as despite the difficulties in your relationship with her, you enabled her to experience the joy of being a GP.

Thank you Smileless - but I can't just sit here, hoping to die. I do get where DD is coming from, although it's hard. I just want to stay in bed, but no, I've got to jog on.

The only blip now is that I've got a pre-op assessment tomorrow - it's a minor keyhole op (umbilical hernia) but my breathing is causing concern with it, with anaesthetic.

Then, it's a couple of weeks without lifting or strain. And I'm on my own.

Ah well, I'll see what they say - I'm quite happy to leave it. This has been rattling on since before Covid, and I can't get excited about it now.🙄

Hope you're all ok x 💐

Smileless2012

We didn't see it coming either Hilltop. The shock was overwhelming and looking back, I think it took time to process that it had actually happened.

I did that too, every time I heard the garden gate opening. My heart would stop and for the briefest moment I'd wonder if it was him. Did that for 4 years!!! Even when I knew he wasn't coming back I still did. Good job we moved or I think I'd have driven myself mad.

Just like you Whiff I found 'me' again when we moved even though we moved further away from extended family and knew no one here.

Volunteer work is an excellent idea DL but you really need to be patient with yourself. The illness and loss of your DH, the nastiness of his children and then of course there's Miss D and the never ending drama she creates, TBH I don't know how you've managed at all, never mind as well as you are doing, because you are doing so well.

How many tortuous hours have we all spent Spring dissecting every aspect of our EAC's childhoods? Going over everything in minute detail, looking for where when we first went wrong and then how many times we went wrong after that.

All of us here are imperfect people, who became imperfect parents and did our best for our imperfect children.

Your mum was fortunate in you DL as despite the difficulties in your relationship with her, you enabled her to experience the joy of being a GP.

Yes, I did, From the moment I became pregnant, she changed.

It might have been unfair, how I was suddenly flavour of the month, I could have had a hissy-fit, but I just waited.

I regret nothing - she was a lovely Nan, and a lovely Great Nan.

My kids know nothing about my childhood, and have only golden memories of my mother.

Which, in my mind, is lovely.

Certainly, as a mother, I wasn't anywhere near perfect. My kids tell me that lol

But, my kids also admit that they've got it wrong with their children, and I've picked up the pieces.

I suppose we just accept one another - warts and all.😉

I suppose we just accept one another - warts and all which is how it should be DL and just think how many families would be spared the pain of estrangement, if more were prepared to do so.

Spot on DL and Smileless!

On a different note, just been to the dentist and need a root canal. Lying there, had Pam Ayers poem going round in my head - ‘Oh I wish I’d looked after me teeth’!!

Oh you poor thing, I'd have a pink fit if I needed a root canal but I'm a hopeless dental patient; always have been.

Just putting a quick post on, not read past Whiff having a lovely time at her brothers & enjoying her pampering, lucky girl! Keep coming on to finish reading all the post, get a phone call from my DD which is usually an hour every morning, sometimes 3-4 times per day [not an hour thereafter], then need to take my little doggie out for walkies, only come on in the mornings, so that ends my session.

Read about Smiles in her fine robes singing in the choir, need a picture please. At least you didn't find your glasses on your head Smiles as I've done!

So sad you are not going to your D wedding Justbe What can you do [?] Just had the same situation with a close relative of my DD, over a misunderstanding. It's my DD 40th birthday celebration in a few weeks' time, she invited them both [mother & daughter] daughter not coming & mother not sure. My DD went to the wedding, so bit awkward!

Raining heavy here, so good job my son took my little dog out first thing, leaves me to dash to the shops to pick up what I forgot for our dinner tonight when shopping last night in Tesco.

Remember that film I see dead people well that's how I feel. After finding my neighbour dead, I was driving home from my late 1-2-1 last night, nothing on the roads, I saw something up ahead in the middle of the road [A13], thought it must be a fox but no it was a man about 35, dressed well. Of course I stopped, as I did 2 people ran over from the left kerb and then people were getting up from the opposite pub gardens. He didn't look drunk or anything like that, looked dead! I didn't stop, as by that time there were a few people by him, and the traffic was building behind me, I felt bad just leaving but enough people with him and I'm not a nurse or doctor, so doubt I could have helped.

Wise words from Smiles for you Justbe I remember when it first happened to me, I would sit bolt upright at 3am in the mornings, every morning, until I started taking 'Kalms one a night' and that helped me sleep, I lost about a stone in weight and I'm quite slight to begin with. Took the sleeping aids for about 5 or more years. Don't need them now, 10.5yrs on. Remember I couldn't read anything, cancelled my 3 subscriptions I had had for many, many years, to do with my work, couldn't concentrate.

Thanks for all your wisdom and advice it is much appreciated that you took the time to support me.

Have a lovely rest of your Friday

That did make me laugh Yogin next time I lose mine that'll be the first place I look just in case.

Drove off this morning for our weekly shop and had to go back because I'd left them on the kitchen table but at least this time I knew where they were.

Sorry, no pics. I love you all but seeing me in my choir robes aint gonna happen. Just imagine the most angelic choir girl you've ever seen .......... and that wont be me .

You're welcome Justbe, that's what we and this thread are here for. Liked the way Yogin shortened your name so decided to copy her. It's a good choice too because there's not a lot if anything, we can do about our estrangements and the best thing we can do for ourselves is to just be ourselves.

That might not be good enough for our EAC but it's good enough for those who do love us, so should be good enough for us too.

Morning all got home at 7 last night. Had a wonderful time but it's always nice to be home. Didn't get a BBQ as weather wasn't very nice but did get a fantastic cheesecake. Blackcurrants picked off my brother and sister in law's allotments. They have one each. My sister in law's has raised beds as she has MS. Saw my first hare , lots of raptors including red kites . The day we went to the allotments went to the drive through ice cream shop. It's on a farm and ice cream made daily there. I had apple crumble and chocolate. We always have double scoops. There garden looks fantastic. Sat in it for a while. Had long talks with my sister in law's dad who lives with them he will soon be 91 he's fitter and healthier that the 3 of us. They never have to worry about when he goes out alone. While they holidayed on the Norfolk Broads recently even though my brother had left meals he made in the freezer for him didn't need them as a neighbour had him at her home for his dinner.

They will be having a new kitchen fitted soon so the 4 of us went tile hunting. They found ones they liked.

Aggie was glad to see me and of course we had to play ball as soon as I arrived.

Meet some more of their village friends. Two of their neighbours came round. Both lovely. Talking to the one even though she is 15 years older than me we had a lot in common. Her husband died 3 years ago and we talked about how that feels. Plus her son hasn't wanted anything to do with her since long before his dad died. He didn't attend the funeral. So again talked about that and how much you all had helped me. It was the first time she had talked to anyone knowing exactly how she feels with the double whammy of widowhood and estrangement. She is a grandmother and great grandmother. Sees her daughter and it's was one of her sons child's birthday and her daughter said it was lovely having all the family together. She said it felt like she had been stabbed as she wasn't invited so how can it be all the family. We talked for a good couple of hours. She hugged and kissed me . Hopefully I helped her a bit knowing she has met someone going through the same thing. But you know me I ramble on😁.

Only went out the twice. But I went just to spend time with them I don't need to go out. My sister in law and I sat crafting together . She was needle felting and me cross stitching. With a friend they going to a craft fair September to sell their work. I brought 2 of her works but wouldn't pay what she asked as I know how long it takes to needle felt. So insisted I had 3 for the £20 I gave her. Will take a pic later and post it.2 are for my grandsons I am keeping one.

People don't realise how long it takes to produce hand crafted items. Some of my cross stitch can take 3 months to do. That's why I never make things to sell as people wouldn't pay the price. To used to things mass produced and cheap. Hugs as an artist and writer knows how long it takes to do things. And any other crafter's here knows how long things take to do. Cross stitch relaxes me and it's the only time my hands don't shake no idea why🤷. I blow my own trumpet on the cross stitch thread by posting pics of my work. 🤣.

Justbe glad you are still with us and hope you don't feel alone as we know how you feel.

Yogin that must have given you a start seeing that man. Glad to hear others where with him. Bet Joey got wet in all that rain . I know Aggie did but a quick rub and she was dry again.

Smiles I just imagine how lovely and regal you must have looked in your choir robes. A younger version of Queen Camilla.

Well better get up and start my day . But taking it easy as already booked up all next week. Since my move my life has never been so full of things I want to do.

Take care all.

My sister in law's needle felting

Morning everyone.

Apologies Yogin, I didn't mention the upsetting experience you had seeing that man in the road. You were right not to stop as there were others there and knowing you, if there hadn't been you would have done.

Glad you've had such a good time with your brother and s.i.l. Whiff and wasn't it fortunate that you met that poor lady who like you is having to live with bereavement and estrangement.

Some people's level of insensitivity never ceases to amaze me. Fancy her D telling her it was lovely to have all the family together when they didn't, because she wasn't there.

DS is an accomplished artist but would never sell any of his pieces because they can take literally hundreds of hours to complete and as you say, no one's going to pay for that amount of time.

Oooh "regal" I'll take that Whiff .

Well at least it's stopped raining, it was very chilly and miserable here last night, so much so that the heating went on for a couple of hours.

Mr. S. thought I was joking when I 'suggested' it, but it only took one look.

Smiles I omitted to confess that recently, looking for my glasses for a moment I found I was wearing them I went online and have just got the next strength up and they are great for reading, I still use the others for watching TV. I'm sure you looked really good in your robe Smiles

Lovely post from you Spring My fault was definitely being too soft with my children and my reaction to first being CO. I always wish I had done what Smiles did which was back off and do nothing, but as we know Smiles had the same outcome as me. But if I could turn the clock back that is what I would do and I think [rightly or wrongly] maybe after 6mths my estD would have contacted me.

Went to the woods with my D&GD last Tues. My DD phoned me on route to say she had seen [& they had seen her] my estD mother-in-law and her mother walking their 2 sausage dogs. She said these 2 women were looking at her strangely and then the penny dropped who they were. Whilst walking in the woods a big but very gentle friendly dog stopped to greet us and my little GD stroked her and made a fuss. I was chatting to the owner when unbeknown to me, the 2 ladies ** walked past. My DD said didn't you see them, I said here they come I then looked ahead, and they had stopped and looked back. My DD said estD m.i.l froze when she saw it was me. Just as well it happened that way, it would have been quite unseemly to see 2 women scrumming in the woods No really, I wouldn't have said anything to them, I may have held my nose and exclaimed about the rotten smell though

Whiff sounds like you had a lovely time with your brother. Amazing isn't it, we talk to a stranger and find they are estranged too! Needle work is very good. One of my students did me a Xstitch bookmark for Xmas, it's so good I have it displayed on my bookshelf in my bedroom.

DL hard times for you, you need more time to recover from your loss. I wish you luck in finding a volunteer role you enjoy doing and hope you're GS ex doesn't cause you more stress.

Love to all xx

Funny you say that Smiles, about the chill, I've just changed my bedding again, from just a sheet and throw, back to my duvet, 7tog. but it's old so thinking it's whittled down to a 5tog.
So easy to make a bed with duvet, with the sheet [from India with lovely embroidery on it] and throw it takes a lot longer to make and also, I find I get taggled up in it as I sleep and move about

_From Smiles_^Some people's level of insensitivity never ceases to amaze me. Fancy her D telling her it was lovely to have all the family together when they didn't, because she wasn't there^

Yes terrible!!

I may have held my nose and exclaimed about the rotten smell though that's so funny Yogin I've feeling I might have done the same thing.

Saying that, do you remember when Mr. S. literally walked into ES's m.i.l.? He was exiting the building as she was entering. After asking him how we both were, she asked for a hug and he's such a love, he gave her one!!! It was the right thing to do TBH. Unlike your D's m.i.l. she didn't take a role of any kind let alone a leading one in our estrangement.

We were good friends, that's how ES met her. I'd feel very ashamed if I had a D that behaved the way she did, so after I'd recovered from the shock, I was glad he hugged her.

When they don't want you, they don't want you Yogin regardless of how hard you try or if you don't try at all. I know it was a horrible experience, but you showed great courage and love for your GD by going to court, and I hope one day she'll know what you went through, just to stay in her life.

Thank you Smiles

You're welcome Yogin.

Quite nice weather wise here today which has inspired me to clean the windows which I should be doing right now, and not spending time on GN.

Spoke to DS on face time yesterday and he won't be coming back for Christmas. Money's an issue even though we said last year that we'd pay his air fare because it would be a lot cheaper than us going there.

Didn't suggest it again as I suspect it's not just the money but the hassle of such a long flight. Determined not to get down about it as there's no point in wasting time getting upset of what you want but can't have, as that stops you from enjoying what you do have.

That's the theory anyway, I'll let you know if it works in practice.

Yogin you showed more restraint than me. I would have asked what the xxxx did I ever do to them. I put up with a lot of crap from my son and daughter in law. And a woman who abandons not only her eldest children then her 2 younger children. Yes they where all adults . My daughter in law was 18 when her parents and siblings moved to the other side of the world. Then she came back after her she divorced leaving her younger children there and been living with my son and daughter in law for 8 years now. Meaning my 3 grandson's have to share a double bedroom. At least I am depandant on no one for the roof over my head or food on my plate.

Worse thing is I got on well with her but does make me wonder is she gloating she is the favoured mom or scared to put a foot wrong and be toss out on her ear.

Had someone from the occupational therapy department come this morning she is getting me some things they might help me in my home. She was lovely and asked all the right questions and shares the same opinion as me regarding getting PIP assessor's.

Got my exercise class this afternoon. Then Homeserve coming out . I had hot water on Saturday. Yesterday was going to have my weekly shower good job I put my hand to check water temp before sitting down it was stone cold. Boiler was flashing a code so should be fixed today.

Going to the Brain Charity tomorrow as there is an art exhibition I want to see. And may treat myself to lunch see how I feel.

Take care of yourselves.

Smiles you might not see your son in the flesh but you do see him and know how much he loves you both. I know it's not the same as holding him but you know what brilliant parents you are to have a caring son who does ask you for advice as you have said in the past.

It amazes me we bring our children up the same way, same unconditional love , attention and support and yet one turns against us. I don't lay the blame all at my daughter in law's feet as my son should have told me to my face instead of taking the cruel and cowardly way out. But don't think some of our children could have done it if they had to face us. I know some here have suffered being confronted by their estranged child or children. Which must have been awful . But I would have loved the chance to defend myself and tell my son a few home truths . But he knows he's in the wrong and doesn't want to admit it. Hope he enjoys living in his perfect world just want until my grandson's are teenagers then they are in for a shock. 🤣 evil laugh .

Yah hot water again 😄

Thank you Whiff and great news about your hot water.

We have a plumber coming to one of our toilets tomorrow that's taking ages to refill once flushed. Will have a house full from next Wednesday so need two loos I can rely on.

Mr. S. said he thought he'd identified the problem, possibly a part with a blocked hole that he could try to un clip and see if he could do something about it.

NO was my response. He's very handy when it comes to almost everything but not plumbing. We once had a problem with the downstairs toilet in our previous house and after he'd tried to sort it, we had to turn the water off because we ended up with a shower instead!!!

Smiles we took out Homeserve when it first started. I know some people don't like paying out monthly thinking they won't need things done. We always had heating and plumbing cover. After my husband died I kept it up and have it since I moved. Over the years it has saved me lot of money but more than that it gives me piece of mind. I only have to ring up and book an appointment for them to fix whatever needs doing. Not long after I moved here my sewer pipe under the drive broke. 3 visits to find out exactly the break was using the camera. Then 4 men here all day to dig up part of the drive,sewer tanker to clear out the gunk as one of the men put it. New pipe fitted and drive put back like new. Dread to think how many thousands it would have cost otherwise. Plus my plan includes boiler service every year. Yesterday was the third time I had them out this year .Boiler making funny noise turned out to be pre heating water which I have never heard it before. And leaking radiator valve . I asked if he would put new valves on all the radiators as one went last year so to prevent the rest going . He phoned the office and they said yes. Peace of mind and dry carpets.

Off out soon. Hope the Plummer fixes your loo.