Interesting watch

My GCs know who their birth grandad is, but he cut them all off when they were very young, and he was out of their lives for over 10 years. And it's been flaky again and now collapsed. They just haven't got a relationship with him.

I think he's silly, and will end up a lonely old man. But, that will be his choice, so I don't get involved.

That's the trouble with estrangements - it causes a ripple effect, beyond the original couple of people involved.

Siblings, the wider family, and grandchildren get thrown into the middle of it.🙁

Stand Alone, which is represented in the discussion is not about blame. They support and advise anyone struggling with estrangement which I believe is something everyone should be able to do.

The biggest causes of estrangement, (after watching the video interview with 3 different representatives) is often breakdowns in communication and values.

Perhaps the estranging parties have different opinions to each other on various things.

Perhaps the estranging parties have different opinions on acceptable lifestyles.

Perhaps the estranging parties have different opinions on how to parent.

So respecting each others differences can go a long way towards preventing estrangement.

Some ways of parenting, life styles and opinions are not a problem to the person who holds their own methods and beliefs and when the other party pushes back and says "I'm not happy with this" they cannot then see that as a valid reason when the relationship breaks down.

In the case of estrangeing chidren, in some households, children may be parented the exact same way and still come out of it with different feelings about their childhood. In some households children may be parented differently because the parent finds one child easier or more like themselves or less like themselves.

These are all things we need to be aware of in order to change the future outcomes. Broken families are an awful end for everyone involved. No opinion, value, belief or parenting style is more important than that relationship and I think we all need to be willing to listen and change to prevent this kind of breakdown.

Families large or small, friendships, work relationships, we always have more to lose.

Also it's easy to imagine how it looks in families.

When I look at Internet discussion for example, I quickly learn who is capable of having different opinions to each other respctfully and who is not.

Who is capable of accepting that people have different thoughts or advise to them and allowing them to try and give that help and who is not.

Who is capable of hearing that perhaps their own behaviour, opinion or methods may cause an issue with others and who is not.

Outside of anonymous forums, when people give (usually unasked for) their strong opinions to me, if engaging with them means they quickly show anger or frustration, I just don't engage them with it. Like many people, I have people at social gatherings or in work settings that I do not want to fall out with and create a hostile environment with. I will make an excuse and leave the situation.
In my own family, when differences come up, I will say my point of view listen to theirs and we will all take some time to think about it before engaging further... to avoid emotional reactions. Usually we find a compromise or we agree to disagree. No one is forced or harassed into changing their minds.

People often do not have the choice to do that in families, they cannot escape those differences, they cannot have their own thoughts heard, they cannot have their needs heard and they cannot advise the other party on how to best have a good relationship with themselves.

Arguments in close relationships can play out exactly as they do in an Internet discussion and dissolve into name calling and anger.

So it's rather easy to see how family breakdowns happen

Whatever the reasons, as a Mother, the pain is horrendous and gets worse with each passing day. Even though my ES told me I'd 'grieve for a bit then get used to it'. He was wrong.

I agree with the above post. I have been estranged from my daughter (& 3 grandchildren) for almost 8 years & the pain & sadness just gets worse as time goes by. I will die a very unhappy old woman

Counselling can be very beneficial after estrangement

Sara1954

I made a decision never to speak to my mother again, I’ve stuck to it for twenty years, and I shall continue to do so.
If one of her friends should ask her, and I’m sure they do, why I’ve cut her out of my life, I’m pretty sure she would say she’s absolutely no idea.
Not true, she knows exactly why I don’t want anything else to do with her, she pushed me into a corner, and I snapped, and I’m so grateful she did, because being free from her has made me happy.
I’ve no desire to build bridges, I have always taken my share of the blame, I know I’m far from perfect, but some relationships are really not worth preserving.

Did we have the same mother, I also walked away from mine 23yrs ago. She also played the innocent victim and my closest uncle knew she was lying yet he took her side because he wanted back in the family. Best decision I ever made. Some times you have to walk away and never look back.

I had a very close friendship with another women I had known 15 years. One day we had an apparently trivial difference on the phone and she asked me not to contact her for a "few weeks". I gave her headspace and then called her after 6 weeks. We chatted like old times without reference to the argument and I was lulled into thinking it was over with. She told me she was moving and I asked for her new number. She just put the phone down on me.

A few days later I got a letter from her saying she considered out differences to be "fundamental" and not to contact her again. I wrote back saying how much I valued the friendship but she never replied. So of course I left it at that.

Ive since realised that the friendship was no longer working for her and so she used an apparently trivial difference as a get out. Cowardly, yes. Because its still unfinished business.

I once sent a friendly message via Facebook but she never replied. I still often think of her.

The truth for me is that I did sit down and explain what needed to change for me to continue the relationship, offer joint counselling and then sent a detailed letter with examples of situations and behaviour and the harm it had caused to my mental health upon estrangement.

My mother still claims to not know why

So as I mentioned in the OP and as others have also said, there is a huge disconnect between reasons given and reasons... Well... received I suppose

Which is why that communication needs to be examined

Nannashirlz
I’m pleased this has worked for you as well.
I think most people assumed I’d have a little sulk, and then gradually start to speak to her again.
Absolutely not, once I said those words, and I didn’t know I was going to say them, I felt free for the first time in my life.

Geographical distance can be a good thing DiamondLily especially if there's jealousy. It was clearly a mistake our ES and his wife moving into the same village as us (where ES grew up) and just 15 doors away.

He was always popping in for a chat and to raid the fridge. We were extremely close which from the beginning was an issue for her. The night they got engaged and we were out celebrating with them and her parents, she told me she had only child syndrome and didn't share!!!

The writing was on the wall but we just didn't see it until it was too late.

That is a shame Sara. We don't and in all likelihood will never know our only GC; it's devastating but there's nothing we can do.

People like your ex astound me DiamondLily, to have children and GC who want to have a relationship and throw it away; such a waste.

I made a conscious decision to completely distance myself, to the extreme point of cutting this “friend” out of my life. I’d know her since I was 19, and “put up” with all kinds of crap from her, until a few years ago when I though “enough is enough”, she’s not attempted to make contact, call or write to ask me why and I feel better for no longer having to put up with her awful attitude, crass behaviour and criticism of my children !!

I feel so so sad about those of you on here who are estranged from family members, especially Parent/Child relationships and whether this was your decision or theirs I pray you find a way to reconcile and if you cannot, by choice or otherwise, I hope very much you find closure and move on at peace with yourself 😊😊🥰🥰

I know I was abused and the reason I know is because the logical me knows how my parent behaves (and still behaves) is cruel and abhorent but the child me, the vulnerable me, still thinks it is all my fault and will willingly take the much learned blame for it (and any other situation I was barely involved in) and that for me after many years of therapy means there will never be any reconcilation. I wanted something, a relationship, that never existed and never would do.

Other people do and say what they feel wt to them/me. People who know and love me, know differently without any explanation necessary

I haven't watched the video as I'm sitting in the lounge with my family

Missiseff and Grannysmith

Not looking can be hard Nannashirlz, especially where there are memories of happy times that your mind is cast back too even though you'd rather not go there.

For you and Sara to have found a better life, shows that you did the right thing.

Broken relationships invariably leave unfinished business biglouise made all the harder when the person/people concerned are never far from your thoughts.

The other thing that I think is important for anyone impacted by estrangement is moving on from being victimised by it.

When people see themselves as victims that doesn't leave any room for healing or growth. It becomes an excuse to stay static, to not self reflect, and to never be accountable.

While "everyone makes mistakes and no one is perfect" is a fundamental truth, knowing what those mistakes are, examining our own weaknesses and outcomes from difficult situations, are the keys to moving forward into health.

I'd be the first person to admit I really struggled during and after the estrangement process and I had mental health outcomes from that relationship that were affecting me negatively.

But I knew I didn't have to live with all of those outcomes or I could work to help them as far as possible.

I'm not angry any more, I'm not in need of accountability or apology and I have been accountable and apologised myself.

Accountability and apology can still benefit my mother if she chooses that path, as can self reflection and working to heal herself but she is still victimising herself. It's actually very sad. No matter what sort of person she is, I feel sad for her.

JaneJudge
For years and years I shouldered the blame for everything.
I know I wasn’t what they wanted, and didn’t conform to the girl they wanted me to be. I also know I was mouthy and argumentative, while my brother learned early to keep his head down.
But in my late thirties, when my last child was born, I suddenly realised that it actually wasn’t all my fault, that the way my mother treated me wasn’t normal or nice.
I was never abused, always clean, tidy and well fed, but my mother was cold and cruel, and that was her fault, even if I had been the naughtiest child imaginable, I think I would have deserved more kindness and affection than she was capable of showing.

JaneJudge
I also think you’re right, some relationships never existed, we are lucky we have people in our lives who find us lovable

we are lucky we have people in our lives who find us lovable absolutely, otherwise we'd spend the rest of our lives feeling that we aren't, that we deserved to be treated the way we were or deserve to be treated the way we are.

I can't imagine what that must have been like JaneJudge, just as I can't imagine how a mother can behave that way. Coldness and emotional cruelty is abuse, there are no physical scars but just because scars can't be seen, doesn't mean they are any less real.

Many people whose lives have been affected by estrangement self reflect, maybe the majority do. Some spend a life time with ifs, buts and if only's which can and for some does prevent them from moving on and rebuilding their lives

Being victimised is being singled out for cruel and/or unjust treatment which is something EP's and EAC can attest too. In that sense you will always be a victim as you cannot go back in time and change the past.

For me, seeing oneself as more than a victim, as a survivor, aids healing and allows for growth.

"I also think you’re right, some relationships never existed, we are lucky we have people in our lives who find us lovable"

I think you're right Sara - being estranged (unwillingly), can bring a sense of rejection.

I've never felt like a victim, even with my (very difficult, to say the least), Mother.....as an adult I chose to keep contact going, and I'm glad I did. She was a wonderful grandmother.👍

My husband said that his ACs rejection of him bought a sense of "shame" - he felt that it must have been a failure of his parenting that had ended up with producing such selfish individuals.

As I said though - the shame is all theirs and they will, sooner or later, have to live with the consequences of that selfishness.. Tough for them.🙄

I think friends and other loving family members around is vitally important. My friends tend to be people I've been friends with for over 50 years - we know each other inside out. It all keeps our show on the road.

DH and I are blessed in many ways - we have each other and are surrounded with nice people. The rest must do as they wish, to be honest.😗

DiamondLily
My mother has proven a better grandmother than mother.
She is still close to my oldest daughter, she hasn’t got much interest in my younger ones, but they have never been especially fond of her, my husband has always kept contact, and usually dragged them along with him.
My brothers children, almost a generation younger than my oldest, she appears to adore, and from what I hear, they are very fond of her.

We felt shame too DiamondLily and also fear of being judged, which we have been and sometimes continue to be, but thankfully it's of no importance now, not like it was in the beginning and has not come from those who really know us and our boys.

Shame and fear make it difficult to talk about estrangement, even on a forum like this where we're all anonymous.

That must be bitter sweet Sara.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202303/medium-911693-screenshot-20230325-142225-drive.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202303/medium-492620-screenshot-20230325-141856-drive.jpg

There is a PDF available from Stand Alone called "Hidden Voices" that shares some interesting insights from surveyed estranged family members

As you can see there is a disconnect in reasons given by respondants

Not really, I don’t mind any of it, my daughter has always been her favourite, and she’s a good granddaughter, drives a long way once a month to take her shopping, and sort things out for her.
None of it affects me in any way, I’ve lost my relationship with my brother and his wife, which is a bit sad, but I accept they’re annoyed with me, and sadly I’ve had no relationship with my lovely nieces and nephews.
But overall, would I go back and do things differently?
No.