Our DD estranged us then went off to university

You are not alone.

You know she is keeping well - that’s the main thing. I sincerely hope things will improve. It must be hard especially at Christmas time . I am so glad that you have sent her a card. She may very well reciprocate. Let us know if she does. Good luck. Merry Christmas 🌲

No one can understand how being estranged affects you if they haven’t experienced it. I wonder if people who estrange non abusive parents without any discussion think they are or will be perfect parents. It is so judgemental and cruel.

Norah, do you really imagine that the OP hasn’t been reflecting and self-examining for the last three years? Indeed, her entire post is an effort to come to some sort of understanding of the various factors which may have contributed.

Monica This is not only no help, but also untrue. Many estrangements happen when the estranged person comes under the control of a stronger more charismatic person, whether a girlfriend or boyfriend, cult leader or school of psychology or other that feeds on the power of estrangement. Sometimes the person has some traumatic experience that leads themselves to distance themselves from friends and family.

Yes Monica, exactly! Sadly it is too often assumed to be "no smoke without fire" and "the parents must have done something!"

Has someone sent the Christmas card for you? Or do you know where she us now living?

What a sad, mysterious situation, but I disagree with the advice to broadcast it to all and sundry. It is the OPs own business and sometimes in life we prefer to keep family matters private.
(If only Meghan and Harry had thought so🙄)

It’s an e-card NS, so you only need the email address.

Delila

*Norah*, do you really imagine that the OP hasn’t been reflecting and self-examining for the last three years? Indeed, her entire post is an effort to come to some sort of understanding of the various factors which may have contributed.

No I don't imagine OP hasn't self-examined. I also believe it's never a bad idea to continue self reflection on possible causes.

There are 2 sides. Parents do play a part in problems.

I agree with eazybee, something doesnt add up

easybee, I am with you. Something is not right . I respect and understand that the OP does not want to broadcast the full story on GN. There is something the daughter has not told her mother or Mum knows more than she is prepared to divulge. Whatever the reason I feel very sad that their relationship is in such turmoil and I wished them and their extended family peace and a satisfactory end to the estrangement. In that situation my heart would be broken.

Of course Germanshepherdsmum - I saw e-card originally and then later " cards" were discussed.

Suppose I'm easily confused!

eazybee

Something strange here.
Based entirely on the information the OP has given, it seems that the daughter, academically bright and expecting to go to university, is very resentful about the lack of support from her parents in the year she is taking A levels and applying for a university place. No-one writes out cheques 'for three or four years of university'; the family's financial situation is taken into account with regard to loans, and it is perfectly possible for students with little financial backing to attend university. The lack of money, 'a difficult patch with my work' seems to have been temporary; I think the daughter found it hard to accept that she should defer her place, work for a year to save money or choose a cheaper university; She was eighteen.
Surprisingly she was helped to rent a flat, which she would pay for out of her earnings, (what sort of wage does a girl straight out of school get to pay rent on her flat, and save?). Some furniture was provided, but 'we never got the furniture back that we paid for' so obviously not a gift.
Three years pass with no communication other than sending her a six monthly email and hearing snippets from her grandmother? I would be out of my mind with worry; the Op seems extremely calm.
Much more to this, I think.

All that ^

Particularly bits about the flat and the furniture - gifts or no?

I'd have no worry about furniture, wouldn't involve grandmother or son as flying monkeys, rather I'd be quite worried about our child.

Presumably as the OP's D's brother and GP's are in touch with her, the OP knows there's nothing to worry about, apart from the fact that she's been estranged for 3 years.

Allsorts

No one can understand how being estranged affects you if they haven’t experienced it. I wonder if people who estrange non abusive parents without any discussion think they are or will be perfect parents. It is so judgemental and cruel.

Years ago we estranged my in-laws. They were not “abusive” in a legal sense. But they were miserable , self serving awful people who were solidly determined to make everyone else miserable too. Mil was a woman who fed on attention and would use anyone as a means to get it , it was ALWAYS about her. We weren’t nor are we perfect parents. We never imagined we were either , but we certainly never behaved like that. Abuse isn’t the only justified reason for people to walk away.

Grams2five

Allsorts

No one can understand how being estranged affects you if they haven’t experienced it. I wonder if people who estrange non abusive parents without any discussion think they are or will be perfect parents. It is so judgemental and cruel.

Years ago we estranged my in-laws. They were not “abusive” in a legal sense. But they were miserable , self serving awful people who were solidly determined to make everyone else miserable too. Mil was a woman who fed on attention and would use anyone as a means to get it , it was ALWAYS about her. We weren’t nor are we perfect parents. We never imagined we were either , but we certainly never behaved like that. Abuse isn’t the only justified reason for people to walk away.

Correct. Often it’s for financial reasons.

A woman in our village sold a piece of land to her elderly parents to build a bungalow. Long story, but they all fell out and the parents had to go and rent somewhere and she would not speak to her parents for nearly 20 years. They missed 2 weddings, 5 babies births and christenings and they never saw any of them despite living less than 10 miles away. The woman only visited her mother in hospital on her deathbed which was a total waste of time. She then had a very strained relationship with her Dad who didn’t live much longer.

I don't understand why anyone would ever take any sort of negative stance to their child's future

Loans are means tested

So you go through the process

She is indeed a clever girl making herself independent so she could access those means tested services without parental consent needed

I don't understand your post VS about anyone taking a "negative stance to their child's future". The OP didn't take a negative stance, merely explained to her D that they were unable at that time to assist her financially.

It would appear that her D has managed, as far as the OP knows, to successfully finance her university course without her parents financial support as many do. She did though require and receive her parents support to act as guarantors for the flat she moved into, as well as having some furniture purchased for her.

There's nothing in the OP to suggest that her D requested parental consent and in any event, parental consent to attend university unless she was still a minor, wouldn't have been necessary.

Okay, I got it now. To apply for student finance as an independent student where she will get the full student loan, maintenance grant and bursary, DW’s daughter has to prove to the university that she has been estranged from her parents for a year.

Maybe, that is the reason why she has not been in contact with DW for three years. She does not want to jeopardize her university funding.

As I said

Help with university fees are means tested. Which means daughter would have got full help if parents could not afford to contribute

However, she couldn't apply for help while living at home without her parents on the forms which they obviously weren't willing to do

So she left, smart move

I think not living with parents would have sufficed SporeRB which the vast majority of adult children manage to do without estranging them.

How do you know the OP wasn't prepared to say her D wasn't living at home with her parents VS? They agreed to act as guarantors for her flat and helped out by purchasing some furniture.

It really doesn't help the OP to make unfounded assumptions.

As I said, if daughter filled out the forms while living with her parents they would need to state their incomes and be means tested.

If they were to pretend daughter did not live there, that would be fraud... I wouldn't assume OP would commit fraud so I went with the facts I can see written

SporeRB

Okay, I got it now. To apply for student finance as an independent student where she will get the full student loan, maintenance grant and bursary, DW’s daughter has to prove to the university that she has been estranged from her parents for a year.

Maybe, that is the reason why she has not been in contact with DW for three years. She does not want to jeopardize her university funding.

"You may be considered an 'independent student' if you've earned a living for three years, are a care leaver, or are irreconcilably estranged from your parents."

Being 'estranged' is different from your parents not being willing or able to support you financially.

If you say you're estranged and are in touch with your parents at all, you stand to lose a lot.

www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/

You keep posting "as I said" when you're saying something for the first time VS. To begin with you query why anyone would take a negative stance to their child's future. The OP hasn't done this.

You then say the OP wasn't prepared to fill in any forms relating to her D's university funding, because the would have to be means tested. This is completely irrelevant as the OP has already stated that they knew their D wouldn't be entitled to any financial assistance.

You are now saying that if the OP pretended her D wasn't living with her that that would be fraud. This is completely irrelevant to everything the OP has said. I don't know what "facts" you are basing your posts on but they have not come from the OP.

Could this really be a case of an adult child estranging her parents in order to get financial assistance for university?

Could this really be a case of an adult child estranging her parents in order to get financial assistance for university?

Maybe if you are already fed up this seems like a way forward...