Hi, I’m new to this forum and this whole estrangement thing. This is our story:
Our DD estranged herself from us in 2020. We still aren’t sure why. She is very bright academically, she wanted to go to university, we wanted her to go too, but we had a lot of discussions during her final A level year about how we were going to fund it. We had recently gone through a difficult patch with my work, money was tight, and we weren’t sure how we were going to afford it. We are in a middle income bracket: too well off to qualify for most grants and other benefits, but not so wealthy that we can just write a cheque for three or four years of university and not feel it - especially when she is not the only child going. We tried to talk to her about various options like postponing going to Uni for a year, working and saving some money, we could maybe fund part of her Uni course and she could fund the rest, she could choose a less expensive Uni, and so on. We couldn’t really get her to engage constructively with these discussions. Maybe she thought we had a pot of money stashed away somewhere and we were just being mean, but the truth was, at that time we really didn’t.
She opted to postpone going to Uni for a year, got herself a job, and asked us to help her get set up in a flat which she would pay for out of her earnings. We were happy to do this, thinking that maybe a bit of independence would be good for her. We agreed to be guarantors for the flat, we bought some furniture for her and I helped her move in.
Not long after she had moved in, her younger brother was keen to see her new flat so I went round with him. She wouldn’t let us in. That was the first time I had any idea that something was wrong. Since then we have had one email from her asking us to send her passport and birth certificate, which we did. After that…silence. No response to emails, no contact with us, although she has kept in contact with her grandmother (my MiL). We heard second-hand that she went to Uni, although she was (and still is) self funding and didn’t ask us for any money. She has never come home for the holidays and there have been no birthday cards, Christmas cards, mother’s or father’s day cards, no word about how she is getting on at Uni, nothing.
We are now over three years into this and if you were to ask me to sum up my feelings in a word I would probably choose “bewildered”. What did we do wrong? Was the flat a bad idea? Was it the discussions about funding her Uni place which she found difficult? Is she trying to prove something? Or was it something else entirely? I have asked my MiL if our DD has said anything to her about why she has cut us off, but my MiL doesn’t know either.
I send her an email about once every six months just to show that the door is open in case she wants to resume contact, but she hasn’t replied to any of them. I’m not sure if I’m doing the right thing - is there some sort of etiquette for this? She hasn’t told us not to contact her so I guess we have “permission” to try. I didn’t want to contact her so often that it looked as though I was chasing her, or so seldom that it looked as though I didn’t care, so once every six months felt about right.
Christmas is a difficult time. Only her brother, her aunt and her grandparents know what has happened. If any other friends or family ask how she is getting on, I make something up. “Yes, she is doing well at Uni, made lots of new friends, no, she won’t be home for the holidays this time, she is busy working / visiting friends, yes, I will pass on your best wishes.” And so on.
Anyway, that’s our story. I’m not really looking for answers because I know each case is unique and nobody really has the answers. But if anyone has any thoughts / suggestions I’d be glad to hear them. Have a great Christmas.
VioletSky
As I said, if daughter filled out the forms while living with her parents they would need to state their incomes and be means tested.
If they were to pretend daughter did not live there, that would be fraud... I wouldn't assume OP would commit fraud so I went with the facts I can see written
But you don't know if the daughter filled out any forms nor that the parents were "obviously" unwilling to sign them, do you?
These are not facts, they are assumptions. Made by you.
Wouldn't it have been easier for her to get a student loan? It's what most people do. She could then have stayed at home and got a part time job. I think that there's more to this.
Estranging parents is nothing new
I have a local friend in her 70s now who told me she left home at 18, joined a religious sect who took all her money, left that with a man, had several DC and travelled the world. She divorced, remarried etc etc and sometime before they died she went "home" to visit her parents.
I don't think they welcomed her with open arms.
Why not get a student loan is what I've been thinking Cadenza.
I'm not surprised her parents didn't welcome her with open arms Grammaretto.
I think that some religions forbid loans? That might have been an issue.
DogWhisperer
We couldn’t really get her to engage constructively with these discussions. Maybe she thought we had a pot of money stashed away somewhere and we were just being mean, but the truth was, at that time we really didn’t.
Did the discussions include the option of her taking out a student loan? As Cadenza123 mentioned and Smileless2012 highlighted, that's the normal route for students whose parents can't afford the fees - though obviously your income would affect the maintenance part of the loan. But all students are entitled to up to £9250 a year to pay the tuition component (I think that's the current amount).
Is it possible she's estranged herself in order to get the maximum - as an estranged student? From what I've read, admittedly, very little, even minimum contact with you could alter her estranged status and therefore her entitlement.
That would be an explanation for the fact that she's simply not responded - at all, about anything.
www.ucas.com/finance/additional-funding/financial-support-students-not-supported-their-parents-estranged
UCAS clearly details the criteria for 'students not supported by their parents (estranged)'
I'm working on the assumption that adult children who deliberately go "no contact" with their parents always do it for a reason. If they are mad at you for some real or perceived slight, they usually make it clear, at some point at least. Complete silence is unusual.
The whole thrust of this post is that the daughter has estranged herself from her parents (never any mention of the father) and has been living independently since the age of eighteen. She would have the paper work to prove this and her earned income, and has, according to the OP, never been in touch with parents since. It seems an extremely complex scan to gain financial help; why write about it on a public forum if this is the case?
As I posted previously, she was able to live in her own flat because her parents were prepared to be guarantors and also purchased some furniture for her. So not entirely independent.
We don't know if the estrangement is purely to enable her to access financial help and discussing this as a possibility has come from those responding to DogWhisperer, not from her.
She says in her OP she is bewildered; she doesn't know why they've been estranged and as far as she knows, neither does her D's grandmother or brother, who the D does have contact with.
I am aware the suggestions have come from other posters, but if this is a scam, which I doubt, why raise the subject at all?
DW said she would like to hear of any thoughts or suggestions eazybee and those have been given.
Would anyone really be prepared to estrange their mother for three years for the sake of getting extra money for their university education?
When it comes to estrangement GSM nothing surprises me anymore.
Smileless2012
When it comes to estrangement GSM nothing surprises me anymore.
I only know of one family estrangement in real life.
But the reasons - by the 'estranger' have been made perfectly clear. Any attempt at communication would be met with a 'reminder' of those reasons.
It's very strange in this case - because no-one who is still in touch with the daughter has any idea about why the estrangement took place.
I haven't made any assumptions, I read the comments and it is clear
Parents wanted her to defer a year and save so they wouldn't have to contribute more than they wanted too
It is all there in black and white
Daughter could not apply for university without either having the fees up front or parents being means tested to find out what they could contribute so she could get a loan for the rest
That's how it works
VioletSky
I haven't made any assumptions, I read the comments and it is clear
Parents wanted her to defer a year and save so they wouldn't have to contribute more than they wanted too
It is all there in black and white
Daughter could not apply for university without either having the fees up front or parents being means tested to find out what they could contribute so she could get a loan for the rest
That's how it works
Parents wanted her to defer a year and save so they wouldn't have to contribute more than they wanted too
..."more than they wanted to"?
Or more than they could afford to?
There is a difference.
Daughter could not apply for university without either having the fees up front or parents being means tested to find out what they could contribute so she could get a loan for the rest
But why are you sure that her parents didn't want to be on the forms - that they were unwilling to be means tested?
However, she couldn't apply for help while living at home without her parents on the forms which they obviously weren't willing to do
The parents and daughter were discussing various options - the OP did not say that she was unwilling to be means tested, only that she knew they would not qualify for any benefits.
It is all there in black and white
Really?
The whole tone of your posts are implying that the parents did not / do not want to help their daughter.
I don't see how any of what you said doesn't actually back me up
Daughter wanted to go to uni and has now gone
Parents should be proud and have a think about why she felt forced to leave to achieve that
VioletSky
I don't see how any of what you said doesn't actually back me up
Daughter wanted to go to uni and has now gone
Parents should be proud and have a think about why she felt forced to leave to achieve that
You know jolly well what your words imply VS!
There's a little bit of not-so-subtle innuendo in your comments.
In plain language, you are disparaging the parents.
OP asked for thoughts, those are mine
VioletSky
OP asked for thoughts, those are mine
Yes, of course.
I'm sure your thoughts were appreciated.
YouGov.co.uk is interesting reading on obtaining maintenance grants. Previous posts have touched on this. To be an independent student you must not have communicated with your parents one year before your academic year commences or you can demonstrate you are permanently estranged. However you must provide confirmation from a professional person outside your family who knows about your circumstances. This could be a social worker, your doctor or a letter from the job centre if you claimed income support showing you got benefits because of the situation.
You cannot claim independence maintenance support just because you don’t get on with your parents or don’t live with them or if parents don’t want to give details of their income or refuse to provide financial support.
This puts a different complexion on this estrangement as other posters suspect. Was this a ruse to get the maintenance grant?If so it is fraud and would explain why dd is too scared to communicate with her parents. She would need to have claimed for 3 academic years. On reflection this seems a much more likely explanation for an estrangement that is quite unusual.
If the daughter genuinely believed that her parents were not prepared to support her through University then it looks possible that she also played them by setting the scene for the estrangement and getting them to initially fund the flat.. She was obviously very determined and playing a long game.. I wonder if she has any regrets
25Avalon
YouGov.co.uk is interesting reading on obtaining maintenance grants. Previous posts have touched on this. To be an independent student you must not have communicated with your parents one year before your academic year commences or you can demonstrate you are permanently estranged. However you must provide confirmation from a professional person outside your family who knows about your circumstances. This could be a social worker, your doctor or a letter from the job centre if you claimed income support showing you got benefits because of the situation.
You cannot claim independence maintenance support just because you don’t get on with your parents or don’t live with them or if parents don’t want to give details of their income or refuse to provide financial support.
This puts a different complexion on this estrangement as other posters suspect. Was this a ruse to get the maintenance grant?If so it is fraud and would explain why dd is too scared to communicate with her parents. She would need to have claimed for 3 academic years. On reflection this seems a much more likely explanation for an estrangement that is quite unusual.
I thought similarly 25Avalon.
If it was a stratagem to obtain funding it's clearly not one that DW suspects - I doubt she'd be posting if she did.
Thing is, the daughter really is estranged from her parents now, for whatever reason. Maybe the daughter felt she had a genuine grievance against her parents - or at least her mother (father is not mentioned) over the issue of funding, DW says that she (daughter) wouldn't engage constructively with the discussions.
If this is the case, it's a heck of a risky and dramatic move... as GSM says, Would anyone really be prepared to estrange their mother for three years for the sake of getting extra money for their university education?
One can only speculate. It is bewildering, and DW can only puzzle over the reason. And keep the line of communication open.
I agree Dickens
I agree pascal that if this estrangement is purely driven by financial gain to assist with university fees, it's possible that "she's played them by setting the scene for the estrangement and getting them to initially fund the flat" which presumably she'd have been unable to take on, without her parents acting as guarantors.
As you say Dickens the daughter is estranged from her parents and has been for 3 years. There is nothing in DW's posts to suggest that she and her H have been anything other than supportive, so for anyone to suggest otherwise IMO is inappropriate.
No doubt her parents are proud of her VS, there's certainly been nothing from the OP that says otherwise.
pascal30
If the daughter genuinely believed that her parents were not prepared to support her through University then it looks possible that she also played them by setting the scene for the estrangement and getting them to initially fund the flat.. She was obviously very determined and playing a long game.. I wonder if she has any regrets
Logically, as OP did say they were not paying for uni, I think setting up the estrangement may have indeed been playing the long game. Grievance with mum unknown - sending the e-card was wise.
OP can move her thoughts along - perhaps gain clarity.
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