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Hi, I’m new to this forum and this whole estrangement thing. This is our story:
Our DD estranged herself from us in 2020. We still aren’t sure why. She is very bright academically, she wanted to go to university, we wanted her to go too, but we had a lot of discussions during her final A level year about how we were going to fund it. We had recently gone through a difficult patch with my work, money was tight, and we weren’t sure how we were going to afford it. We are in a middle income bracket: too well off to qualify for most grants and other benefits, but not so wealthy that we can just write a cheque for three or four years of university and not feel it - especially when she is not the only child going. We tried to talk to her about various options like postponing going to Uni for a year, working and saving some money, we could maybe fund part of her Uni course and she could fund the rest, she could choose a less expensive Uni, and so on. We couldn’t really get her to engage constructively with these discussions. Maybe she thought we had a pot of money stashed away somewhere and we were just being mean, but the truth was, at that time we really didn’t.
She opted to postpone going to Uni for a year, got herself a job, and asked us to help her get set up in a flat which she would pay for out of her earnings. We were happy to do this, thinking that maybe a bit of independence would be good for her. We agreed to be guarantors for the flat, we bought some furniture for her and I helped her move in.
Not long after she had moved in, her younger brother was keen to see her new flat so I went round with him. She wouldn’t let us in. That was the first time I had any idea that something was wrong. Since then we have had one email from her asking us to send her passport and birth certificate, which we did. After that…silence. No response to emails, no contact with us, although she has kept in contact with her grandmother (my MiL). We heard second-hand that she went to Uni, although she was (and still is) self funding and didn’t ask us for any money. She has never come home for the holidays and there have been no birthday cards, Christmas cards, mother’s or father’s day cards, no word about how she is getting on at Uni, nothing.
We are now over three years into this and if you were to ask me to sum up my feelings in a word I would probably choose “bewildered”. What did we do wrong? Was the flat a bad idea? Was it the discussions about funding her Uni place which she found difficult? Is she trying to prove something? Or was it something else entirely? I have asked my MiL if our DD has said anything to her about why she has cut us off, but my MiL doesn’t know either.
I send her an email about once every six months just to show that the door is open in case she wants to resume contact, but she hasn’t replied to any of them. I’m not sure if I’m doing the right thing - is there some sort of etiquette for this? She hasn’t told us not to contact her so I guess we have “permission” to try. I didn’t want to contact her so often that it looked as though I was chasing her, or so seldom that it looked as though I didn’t care, so once every six months felt about right.
Christmas is a difficult time. Only her brother, her aunt and her grandparents know what has happened. If any other friends or family ask how she is getting on, I make something up. “Yes, she is doing well at Uni, made lots of new friends, no, she won’t be home for the holidays this time, she is busy working / visiting friends, yes, I will pass on your best wishes.” And so on.
Anyway, that’s our story. I’m not really looking for answers because I know each case is unique and nobody really has the answers. But if anyone has any thoughts / suggestions I’d be glad to hear them. Have a great Christmas.
VioletSky People can have different attitudes and different opinion on a family issue and look at it from completely different stand points without anyone's feelings being considered invalid.
You do seem across a number of threads to be really keen on blaming the parents for everything and being very judgemental, when really you have very little imformation to go on.
Maybe I'm old but I need a list of what the abreviations stand for ie DD 🤔
No...
My standpoint is that many estrangements and family disputes stem from the fact that people have their own viewpoints and aren't capable of hearing others. Usually the other person's feelings are real and you have to acknowledge that to resolve the dispute. Whether you understand their feelings is actually secondary
You won't very often see me pull up and disagree directly with another standpoint on a personal level because they should be represented (unless in matters where harm may come to children).
This isn't about right or wrong, it is about a broken family
If someone focuses entirely on being right and only wanting to hear responses that back up their own thinking, then, the chances of reconciliation are slim
It is very sad actually
VioletSky
Having children is a choice, ensuring they are well educated a basic function of parenting
The parents didn't want to contribute towards uni fees as they wanted more money for their own future...
As a parent, my children's needs come before my wants. I wouldn't put my needs last no but my wants yes... My children are the family I chose to create and their future matters to me too
As a parent, my children's needs come before my wants. I wouldn't put my needs last no but my wants yes...
So you assume any money saved for their retirement is for their 'wants' not their needs?
The parents didn't want to contribute towards uni fees as they wanted more money for their own future...
They asked the daughter to postpone for a year so that they might be in a position to contribute towards the fees - and she might be able to save.
There are two other children to consider also.
You are very determined to put the parents in as bad a light as possible, aren't you?
treasurextra
Maybe I'm old but I need a list of what the abreviations stand for ie DD 🤔
Oh!
'DD' means "darling daughter" 
PS treasurextra
If you scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on ACRONYMS-it will give you all the abbreviations.
VioletSky
Having children is a choice, ensuring they are well educated a basic function of parenting
The parents didn't want to contribute towards uni fees as they wanted more money for their own future...
As a parent, my children's needs come before my wants. I wouldn't put my needs last no but my wants yes... My children are the family I chose to create and their future matters to me too
This seems rather unfair on the parents because:
*They did not have the money available specifically at that time
*They asked /suggested postponing 1 year when thinks might be easier and they could help financially
*They supported their daughter with a flat; hardly uncaring/self interested
*There is a significant difference between wants and needs when planning for retirement...is enough money to support oneself with health and disability issues a want or a need for example? Planning for retirement is not a "want" per se; its vital; sometimes scary and important ...and I'm not talking about money for holidays etc; I'm talking health and not being a burden to ones children etc!!
* University is great but "a good education" is not defined necessarily by university. It's not vital ... and an 18 year old wanting to go has responsibilities as well as their parents!
It's ridiculous to suggest that any parent who on paper, is in a position to support their child through uni is selfish, and putting their own needs before their child's if they feel unable to do so.
Being able to buy food, pay bills and keep warm during the winter months isn't putting one's wants before their child's needs.
Your post quoted by Madgran is what the vast majority of believe and how they behave, and there is absolutely nothing from the OP that suggests she views her parenting responsibilities any differently.
What I find very sad actually are the numerous assumptions that have been made in this thread, to the detriment of the OP.
I am not at all au fait now with the requirements for funding of university places, but my understanding, based on the few facts the OP has supplied is that she has a good income but no savings, investments abroad apparently having been sequestered and she is trying to amass money for a pension pot. Assessment of family finances would indicate the means to make a partial contribution and this is what she is trying to avoid.
I feel there is much that isn't being disclosed; if highly personal matters are discussed on a public forum intrusive questions and speculation will inevitably follow and there is something distinctly odd about this situation.
It's been said by more than one poster more than once, that the OP stated she knew that their D would not qualify for funding due to their financial position eazybee.
We don't know if the D's estranged her parents because they felt unable to give her financial assistance for uni. This has been suggested as a possibility by some who've responded to the OP.
TBH I find even the possibility of an AC estranging their parents because they wont be funding their university course, so they'll be required to take out a student loan, shocking.
Wouldn't you at least start the process, fill out the forms and find out exactly how much daughter could get a loan for?
18 year olds cost money living at home anyway...
Working for 1 year before going is not going to cover 3 years of university fees
Living alone at 18 these days is extremely difficult
When my daughter went to uni my husband was alive. We paid her tution and accommodation. She had a student loan and worked to fund everything else. When my son went to uni we had put aside some money as my husband knew he wouldn't live . I didn't have to pay tution but out of the money paid his accommodation. He had a loan and worked..
Both my children ended up in debt and a student loan to pay off. Friends of theirs had to use all their savings as well as a loan and bit of help from parents plus also worked.
Both our children made the choice to go to uni and they made it quite clear they didn't expect us to fund them. And that's how it should be.
I hate the phrase the bank of mom and dad.
We had to fund what we wanted . We went without and saved . Brought our own house and paid for our wedding . Both my children did the same. Even though my son decided to estrange me 3 years I am proud of him and my daughter in law that they brought their own house and paid for their own wedding.
And VioletSky as you well know we have locked horns before over your assumption I knew why my son decided not to only estrangement me but all our side of the family. I still don't. The hurt caused by my husband's death nearly 20 years ago hurts far more than what my son has done.
Do not make assumptions based on your own experience. If I remember correctly you aren't estranged from your children but you estranged from your mom due to either abuse or unreasonable behaviour can't remember what you said you say so much.
A student loan is available regardless of the parents income and financial position VS, so parents don't need to complete forms for their child to apply for one, unless they think there's a possibility there child may be eligible for a grant.
Working for a year would provide additional money if still living at home but the OP's D chose not to live at home, using her earnings to fund a flat with her parents acting as guarantors and providing some of her furniture.
Living alone at 18 these days is extremely difficult I'm sure it is but it was the D's choice to do so, not the OP's.
I agree that's how it should be Whiff. We supported our DS at uni as much as we could, but he still needed a student loan and like your children and the vast majority, ended up in debt.
Indeed Smileless, the parents’ financial situation doesn’t affect entitlement to a student loan. If it did our son wouldn’t have been able to get one. We were however in the fortunate position of being able to pay for his accommodation etc. It’s clear that the OP and her husband were not in such a good position when their daughter wanted to go to university, hence suggesting she defer for a year - but instead she rented a flat and presumably most of her earnings during the year she lived there went on rent, food and bills rather than being saved towards her living expenses at university.
Germanshepherdsmum
Indeed Smileless, the parents’ financial situation doesn’t affect entitlement to a student loan. If it did our son wouldn’t have been able to get one. We were however in the fortunate position of being able to pay for his accommodation etc. It’s clear that the OP and her husband were not in such a good position when their daughter wanted to go to university, hence suggesting she defer for a year - but instead she rented a flat and presumably most of her earnings during the year she lived there went on rent, food and bills rather than being saved towards her living expenses at university.
but by doing that and claiming she was estranged she became entitled to an enhanced loan.. long term planning.. she will be very successful in her career I imagine.. don't know how she will cope without her family though.. unless there was a completely different agenda!! we are all speculating..
There is a very careful drip-feed of information so I doubt if all will be revealed.
GSM is correct when she says that a person's relationship with their parents alters once they have been away to university. I had lived separately from my parents for many years and went to uni as a mature student. But in many ways that was the final bridge with my parents shattered and washed away, I just felt that I wanted to distance myself.
My mother cried the day I left Liverpool. She knew that I would never go back there to live, only for a visit.
For a young adult to be finally free of the parental noose is at once a liberating and scary experience. Its like living in a different dimension.
Actually no, you are wrong
The fees for tuition are separate
Living expenses are the ones that are means tested
Like I said, I fill those forms out every single year
One of my son's has built a life for himself at UNI, it's not uncommon, making local friends and especially meeting a partner there
It's not a terrible thing though, for children to move a distance for the life they want .. we have so many great ways to stay in touch now
Is the OP looking for answers to the cause of her daughter's estrangement - she has said she's not - rather how to deal with the fact of it?
She's mused on the possibilities but realises each case of estrangement is - in her own words... unique.
I don't think she needs a mini-lecture on the duties and responsibilities of parenting either, VS. I imagine she, along with the majority of posters on GN, have done their best raising their children and care about their future welfare and will help them, financially, if and when they can.
You won't very often see me pull up and disagree directly with another standpoint on a personal level...
That's true - what you do is insinuate, imply and allude, by your choice of words instead. In this particular case you have chosen to say that the parents were not willing to complete the funding application form; and have implied that investment in their future retirement is catering to their 'wants'.
It's clever, it's subtle - it allows you, if challenged, to say things like those are just my thoughts or similar; and to accuse those who question your assumptions of twisting your words. It's dishonest.
No we are not wrong VS. A students parents could be millionaires but that doesn't prevent that student from applying for a student loan.
Of course it's not uncommon for a student to build a life for themselves at uni, the vast majority do. Whose said it is a terrible thing for a child to decide to move away? Yes, there are many ways to stay in touch, but the OP's D hasn't stayed in touch with her parents has she, she's been estranged for 3 years.
It does look as if this entire situation could have been planned by the OP's D pascal if our speculations are correct. If that is the case, and if any AC estranges their parents so they wont need to take a student loan for their university course, I hope they don't live to regret it.
VioletSky
Actually no, you are wrong
The fees for tuition are separate
Living expenses are the ones that are means tested
Like I said, I fill those forms out every single year
Who is wrong? The loan covers tuition fees. We paid our son’s living expenses. He got a loan for tuition fees.
Well, this seems to back up everything I have said about how it works and thankfully shows I am not filling out fake forms every year for no apparent reason
www.theuniguide.co.uk/advice/student-finance/how-student-finance-actually-works#:~:text=Tuition%20fee%20loans%20are%20generally,means%20that%20of%20their%20parents.
There is the link that backs up everything I have said, and that's that now really isn't it
Done and dusted
Indeed Dickens.
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