Gifts to GC when estranged

Otter99

For what it's worth, I have been following this thread with interest and I for one have been interested in all the different view points expressed from all sides of the table. My own opinion is that my estranged mother tried to send birthday cards to my very young children who are not of reading age. Think along the lines of "granny loves you and misses you and its such a shame I'm not allowed to be a part of your life". I felt it was massively inappropriate considering one of them has never met her and the other would not remember. But a very self serving act to write that in a child's birthday card. Obviously they cannot read and were nor given said card. But it has given me anxiety should she try again.

I think that type of comment in those circumstances is inappropriate Otter99 for such young children as they can't process the nuances of that and would be confused by it all. I can see why you would see it as self serving. Others might see it as hurting and desperate etc. It could be both really. Either way the children are at the centre and their best interests must come first.

Regarding her "trying again" only you can decide how you deal with it really as you know the circumstances of your Estrangement and know what your children can understand and cope with as they get older. I hope it doesn't cause too much anxiety though for you 💐

Equally your mother will also have to find her own way through, as has been discussed in various ways on this thread and on others.

Estrangement is painful isn't it in so many ways.

Goodness! I’ve been asleep here in New Zealand whilst all this has been going on. I’ve got a couple of observations:

I was so disappointed to see what has probably amounted to bullying of Smileless. She has always been a lovely poster as far as I’m concerned, giving helpful advice and thoughtful comments on a variety of topics. She has certainly helped me at some difficult times.

VioletSky is neurodiverse and I have a little experience of this. Neurodiverse people often focus very intensely on something and they are often very involved in whatever they are interested or concerned about. I think that’s what’s perhaps happening here. She is rightly concerned about her children and wishes to protect them. She’s never told us why she has estranged her mother but if I remember rightly, she may also be estranged from either her father, or husband’s father, and may have mentioned that elsewhere. I’m sure VS will put me right if I’ve got it wrong.

DiamondLily my own mother also presented us with difficulties, she wasn’t always an easy woman. But I loved her very much, although at times she made my life difficult. I also believe she loved me too. However she was a lovely Nana and my children and my sister’s children adored her and she was also a beloved Great Nana too. There were many tears at her funeral. Although I felt somewhat trapped in the daily visiting and everything I had to do for in her final years, I always looked after and did everything possible to be a good daughter. I miss her.

Finally, in this difficult thread, spare a thought for those of us who like me, have had our grandchildren removed because the adult child’s marriage was failing and my adult child was being controlled by her husband. Having got her here to NZ the marriage collapsed, without the support of her family. He only ever wanted to get her away from us, from the start of their relationship. Our grandchildren are now, today, very sad that we’re leaving tomorrow. Many, many times saying please come and live here, why do you have to go back, I want to live in England near you again, I wish you were here forever and much more, some of which I cannot write here. Spare a thought for these beloved children who don’t understand what has happened properly. Who are the middle of a very acrimonious divorce and want their grandparents to be with them. The sadness of my ten year old grandson last night was heartbreaking. I love them so much.

Everything you said was wrong Maddyone

Well, not everything but so much that you ought not to be talking about me at all

I know you've talked of your mum before DiamondLily and against all the odds in terms of how she was as a mother, she was a great GM to your children.

Maybe sometimes bad mums can become good GM's, but of course they need to be given that chance and your mum was lucky that you were prepared to do that.

I also think that's an inappropriate comment Otter it could have been in part driven by hurt and desperation as Madgran's mentioned on but even so, it wasn't the right thing to say.

It's the responsibility of all adults involved in children's lives to protect them from harm, not be the cause of any.

You're constantly in my thoughts *maddy, as is your DD and the children. Seeing what your D continues to go through and you GC must be breaking your heart, especially as you have to leave them tomorrow to come home.

I'm so desperately sorry maddy .

Okay VS I won’t mention you again.

Smileless

@Otter and @Madgran after the post was detailed a bit I didn’t jump back in . This might be a good time for me to add my point and ask really if you see my point of view . Re a memory box , should I find myself needing to do this it would be my intention to lodge it with a solicitor with my will . The box would be given to my GS at an appropriate age , I was thinking of maybe 16 ? I was also going to pay so that the box be opened in the presence of the solicitor so it’s done properly a bit like reading a will . My GS will be my beneficiary anyway. The reason for all this formality would be imo to prevent any distress , and also make sure the information was read in the correct way . Before the box was going to be opened in the solicitors presence, I’d request they sent a letter about the nature of this appointment. I know it sounds terribly formal but I’m so aware of something like this causing anxiety and/ or distress ( and also being interfered with by his parents , my AS and DIL) .
Do you think this is completely OTT? I might not be around at this time and I want to ensure it’s done sensitively. Needless to say , I’ll not be writing anything inflammatory on the cards . Gosh this is just so sad .

Post was derailed!

It hasn't detailed, it has been quite interesting and I am glad I continued with it

Thank you for starting the thread

Otter99

For what it's worth, I have been following this thread with interest and I for one have been interested in all the different view points expressed from all sides of the table. My own opinion is that my estranged mother tried to send birthday cards to my very young children who are not of reading age. Think along the lines of "granny loves you and misses you and its such a shame I'm not allowed to be a part of your life". I felt it was massively inappropriate considering one of them has never met her and the other would not remember. But a very self serving act to write that in a child's birthday card. Obviously they cannot read and were nor given said card. But it has given me anxiety should she try again.

Yes we used to get the same such “gifts “. When my estranged in-laws passed they attempted to leave a great many things to their grandchildren , though not a memory box that I’m aware of - but the items they attempted to leave were refused by my then adult children. They weren’t interested in being responsible for sorting thru their things and selling or disposing of them etc anymore than my husband was, as he was still the person they designated first despite having not been in contact with him
for sometime. It would have , in our case even a huge burden to take on and so their things were left for government to get rid of. At the best least a memory box is small and
Is easily binned if not wanted, though perhaps not if it’s demanded to be read thru with a solicitor.

It has made me think, if anything gets left to me, I'm not going

The thought of having to have her final thoughts read to me in that way is horrible.

Should any thoughts be left to you VS you have that choice of not reading them.

Maddyone...sending love to you, cant imagine how you are feeling, such a sad situation.Take care of yourself.

I don't think that's OTT Ladysu if that's the way you want to go about it, it merely demonstrates that like the other EGP's posting here, and it goes without saying that you wont be one, you want to do the right thing and leave the right message.

Maybe 16 is too young. The beneficiary needs to be old enough to make their own decision as to whether or not they wish to receive the memory box and view the content. At 16 they would still be under the control of their parents who may prevent them from taking ownership.

A solicitor wont be able to demand that the contents be read.

LadyS I have been pondering on your question.

1. It is wise not to write anything inflammatory on any cards. As has been pointed out in various ways, by various posters, that is, I think, not in the best interests of the receiver.

2. Leaving it with a solicitor means that the box will definitely be given directly to the GC. I would say 16 is too young myself. I think that between 16 and 25 is a key time when brains come to full maturity and people start to process, in their own way, specific events and also move into more independent and reasoned thinking of their own to make their own decisions. So I would say at least early 20s.

3. I personally would not enforce being opened in front of a solicitor; that is removing control from the receiver - your grandchild. They should I think be handed the box by the solicitor if that is what you choose to do (and they can choose to turn up or not, take it or not) , but then be left to decide their own way forward. Open it. Not open it. Store it away. Throw it away. It really is up to them as an adult.

I hope the above is helpful as you find your way forward on this

VS Those parents become grandparents... And no magic occurs to make someone not abusive when a grandchild is born.

Abuse from parents is more apparent because the child lives with their parents, grandparents have less contact with children in general but that doesn't make them any more safe to be around”


But, as I’ve said many times, my mother was what would be seen (nowadays) as emotionally abusive to me.

Yet, as I’ve also said many times, she turned out to be a wonderful granny and great granny.

None better.👍

Even more astonishingly, none of us needed counselling, forum validation, pods, books or social media to maintain happy and healthy relationships…🙄

I put the past of my childhood firmly behind me, when I reached 18, and she was supportive of my parenting. That’s all it needed, the past didn’t need to be picked apart and festered upon.

Obviously, in the cases of sexual or physical abuse, the situation would be totally different - but that wasn’t in my past.

maddyone

Okay VS I won’t mention you again.

Maddy reading what you said I think it was meant kindly to try and promote understanding.

However I do agree with VS that it is best not to mention other posters in that way; best for individuals to explain themselves in whatever way they choose to, or choose not to.

Maddyone

Watching a much loved child and grandchildren suffer because of a controlling and abusive spouse takes over your life the sadness and feelings of powerlessness is unbearable at times.
I understand your sadness completely 💐

Safe journey home.

Gramiesunite the feeling of utter helplessness must be unbearable. When an adult is in a controlling and abusive relationship with their partner, how their children not be affected, despite the loving parent doing all they can to keep those children safe and protected within that family dynamic.

I sometimes wonder if the "counselling, form validation, pods, books or social media" you referred too DL can do more harm than good.

DiamondLily

VS Those parents become grandparents... And no magic occurs to make someone not abusive when a grandchild is born.

Abuse from parents is more apparent because the child lives with their parents, grandparents have less contact with children in general but that doesn't make them any more safe to be around”

But, as I’ve said many times, my mother was what would be seen (nowadays) as emotionally abusive to me.

Yet, as I’ve also said many times, she turned out to be a wonderful granny and great granny.

None better.👍

Even more astonishingly, none of us needed counselling, forum validation, pods, books or social media to maintain happy and healthy relationships…🙄

I put the past of my childhood firmly behind me, when I reached 18, and she was supportive of my parenting. That’s all it needed, the past didn’t need to be picked apart and festered upon.

Obviously, in the cases of sexual or physical abuse, the situation would be totally different - but that wasn’t in my past.

It's a deep shame that you view some types of abuse as somehow worse than others or more dangerous

I wouldn't leave a child with anyone abusive.

I have experienced sexual, physical and emotional abuse so I know which caused the most damage long term for me. My mother was aware of all three.

In my situation, my children not only witnessed emotional abuse towards me but one of them received it herself and would never have told me that had I not estranged because she thought it was her own fault.

So your situation and mine differ vastly and if I can accept that and allow you to make your own choices and decisions without judgement perhaps you can do the same.

Every situation deserves each of us not to place our own over it.

I am glad your children had a good grandmother. I took the same gamble and lost.

VS. I wasn’t aware I was judging you? Not sure how..🤔

I don’t know you, personally, or your situation - I was just stating mine, which only I know.

You give your examples, I gave mine.

Surely, on forums such as this, ALL replies are based, in part, on thoughts from our own experiences?

Everyone has different experiences, and also from having worked for years with abused children, I do also understand that no two abuse situations are the same.

All I know is that my mother and I called a truce, and my kids and grandchildren have only golden memories of my mother.

I have never enlightened them as to my childhood, and never will.

Life worked for us, and that’s all it needed to be. 🙂

My point is that an abusive person does not magically become not abusive when a grandchild turns up

That is true regardless of whether they abuse their grandchild

Some do and that is always one too many

So I would not take the view "I did xyz" and it turned out fine" instead I would advise caution, always so that people are aware of the risks

Just as I advise caution and being aware of the risks when passing on memory boxes. Only here these are acts not yet committed, so no harm has been done as things stand and no judgement given

I cant see anything that DL has said that suggests she was judging anyone to be honest but I know that perceptions can differ.

Similarly I cant see anything that she has said that suggests she wasnt cautious when deciding to allow a relationship to develop with her mother but again, I know perceptions can differ

DL I'm glad that you were able to, as you call it, "call a truce" in your circumstances with your mother and that your children have golden memories 🙂

I think most people can look at their situation, and make a judgement from that. People are also aware of risk factors.

I wouldn’t presume to tell others what they should do, simply because I believe we all have to make our own choices.

Some are perfectly valid on estranging from certain relatives. Others can often find a way forward.

But, that has to be a personal choice.

I did the right thing for my family - others will do their best to be right for their family.

Any opinions from me, or anyone else, are fairly irrelevant.

We can only give general views, based on our own experiences. 🙂

Regarding memory boxes, well, my kids didn’t want theirs from their paternal GM (their choices). I didn’t get involved, as I had cut off contact with her 30+ years prior to her death.

On the other hand, I’ve got a long running saga going on with my GGD, and although social services are recommending regular contact with me, DD etc. and virtually none with her birth mother, I have started a memory box in case it goes wrong - but none of this is anything to do with abuse.

Just a nutty birth mother🙄