Is “ No Contact “ abuse ?

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taking advice from people who managed to get themselves permanently estranged is definitely ... a choice.

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Yes it is a choice whenwewereyoung, just as taking advice from someone who has permanently estranged is.

whenwewereyoung may have read that out of context . Are you saying parents choose for their children to permanently estrange them ?

But I did not choose to get myself permanently estranged from my son . He chose to do that. I had no warning it was going to . I saw him on my birthday April 2020 he came after work with cards and presents . We had to sit apart and in the garden he said about putting paving down for me to make it safer. But I said he had enough to do . Both my son and daughter in law worked had 2 boys and another on the way.
Four days later I had a text saying
I have sent you an email don't contact me . It was full of lies and assumptions he called me vindictive and manipulative 2 things I have never been. He sent his sister one but she had washed her hands of him years before. He ended his email with I don't like you mom but love you. And give me a few months. If this is his love would hate to see what his hate is like.

I gave him months and it was his birthday and second sons birthday in August the same day plus I knew my new grandson was due in July. At the time of the email my son knew I was waiting for tests on my heart as the echocardiogram showed a problem . So I asked how the family was and hope mother and baby where fine and told him they had found a hole in my heart. It was a friendly letter didn't mention the email. I had put in a cheque and how it was to be divided up and some for my oldest grandson as I always gave to siblings when a new baby was born. Put in a birth card and 3 presents for my new grandson.

The day after their birthday the parcel came back cards all unopened and the presents crushed luckily they where soft and a letter saying I do not want your vindictive and manipulative behaviour anywhere near me or my family ever again zero contact.

That was it. His choice since that letter contacted twice via text as I needed to . When my husband died he left his personal car number plate to the children so I finally got round to sell it. My brother had emailed him asking for his bank details so I wouldn't have to contact him. He ignored my brother for 4 days and I got mad. So I text it at 4am on the Monday morning as I knew he would be at work . Told him if I didn't have his details by 6pm he lost the money. So course I had a reply at 9.30 am and he put thank you . And that upset set to think money was the only way he was going to be civil to me.

When I transferred the money to my daughter first thing she said did you have any fees to pay. I explained how I took a lower price to get the money fee free and was in my bank account within 3 days. My son never even asked that all he wanted was the money.

Next time I contacted him was when I had my diagnosis of what was wrong with me . I text to say I was sending him a copy of my neurologists letter. And how to get tested if he wanted to. I was born disabled with a rare hereditary neurological condition. But when my health got worse when my son was 6 months and daughter 4 my late husband just said we alter our way of life to suit what you can do. But I was a hands on mom only thing I couldn't do was carry my son up or down the stairs due to limb jerks and acute pain or go out by myself. If we went in one shop I used my stick otherwise went in a wheelchair until the children where lot older.

I had silence not even at least you know mom or glad you know.

Last year I decided to text him but if I got silence or abuse I was done . As the only person hurting was me and I had enough especially as my mobility has gotten worse . Friendly text had abuse back so I am done. My son knows where I am. Lat time I saw his 2 eldest they where 4 and 2 and had seen them every week for 7 months and my son said they got excited when they realised where they were going. I don't know the name or date of birth of their brother. They are now 7,5 and 3.

So I hope you aren't saying I chose to be permanently estranged from my son as no parent who loves their child unconditionally would choose this as it's cruel . I had a living caring son for 32 years no idea who he is now .

It was the 20th anniversary of my husband's death on Tuesday I do hope my son remembered. And on Friday it would have been his 67th birthday.

Estrangement is a living grief . And I have enough grief in my life as I still grieve everyday day for my husband. But for all my son and daughter in law have done nothing comes close to the pain of my husband dieing .. I have to many good things going on in my life . I gave my son a chance he chose to threw me away but not only me but all our side of the family.

I feel sorry for my grandson's growing up without the joy of extended family . As they only have their other nannie who lives with them.

My son and daughter in law think they are perfect they are far from it I know things and seen things when we where in contact but I never said a word . I bite my tongue instead. As it parents who make the rules not grandparents.

You're not just presenting an opposing view though are you mamasperspective. Your responses are unpleasant and judgemental.

I see that for the second time you are implying that the OP is a narcissist. That isn't simply presenting an opposing view, it's offensive and perhaps says more about you than you realise.

i read elsewhere that she wants to mend the relationship with her son.

if that's true then what i'm asking is: wouldn't she be better off taking the advice of parents who have had healthy reconciliations with their children instead of parents who haven't?

TBF whenwewereyoung EP's have given her advice on that, suggesting for example that although it's hard, that she stop contacting him to give them both space.

She's been advised that her son's abusive treatment is unacceptable and she needs to have some boundaries to protect herself.

I haven't been critical of the way her son and d.i.l. are treating her because I'm an EP, I'm critical because the treatment and the way her son continues to speak to her when he is choosing to go and see her, is quite frankly appalling.

Your comment @ 01.35 singled out those who are permanently estranged. What about advice from those who themselves have estranged or their partners have, and those who have no experience of estrangement?

whenwewereyoung

i read elsewhere that she wants to mend the relationship with her son.

if that's true then what i'm asking is: wouldn't she be better off taking the advice of parents who have had healthy reconciliations with their children instead of parents who haven't?

My thoughts exactly. I would say more but I have no desire to have my words dissected more than necessary.

I don't think contrary opinions are welcomed here. If the opinion isn't "EAC is a monster" or "EAC is doing it to hurt you" or "EAC is being controlled by a partner who is a monster" then it will be rejected.

There's something to be said for considering the audience in this scenario. OP likely is looking for validation not advice.

When you are estranged you cannot believe it, so unexpected for lots of people. It’s helpful talking to people who understand, we all have different reasons for it happening . I would only ever advise anyone to stand back a little, don’t force discussion if they have said they don’t want it, but say when they are ready you want to put things right and listen to what they say. There are mil’s and dil’s who are from hell. Hopefully most estrangements resolve, but if it doesn’t we have to learn to live with it. What you don’t want is people thinking they know what they think you did wrong that enabled estrangement , it’s not one size fits all. it just hurts.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with contrary opinions User as long as they are given in a reasonable manner and without attacking and/or labelling the OP and/or those who happen to agree with her and are offering their support.

I've not seen anyone refer to the OP's son as a monster or say that her d.i.l. is one. Sometimes an EAC is being controlled by their partner. There have always been examples here on GN but perhaps you don't want to believe that can ever happen do you.

It's funny how the posters who regard their opinions being disagreed with as rejected, are the very ones who reject the possibility that it might not be the EP's fault, that their AC and/or partner may be to blame. These causes of some estrangements never even being considered because for some, it's always the parents/ ps.i.l./mother/m.i.l. isn't it.

it's not one size fits all no it isn't Allsorts but it does come across that for it is.

for some it is

Allsorts

When you are estranged you cannot believe it, so unexpected for lots of people. It’s helpful talking to people who understand, we all have different reasons for it happening . I would only ever advise anyone to stand back a little, don’t force discussion if they have said they don’t want it, but say when they are ready you want to put things right and listen to what they say. There are mil’s and dil’s who are from hell. Hopefully most estrangements resolve, but if it doesn’t we have to learn to live with it. What you don’t want is people thinking they know what they think you did wrong that enabled estrangement , it’s not one size fits all. it just hurts.

Estrangements aren't one size fits all--very true statement. This is precisely why the constant hypothetical references to the DIL being coercive or controlling is so negative and divisive. There's no proof. In fact, the DIL's distance from the OP is the most rational part of this whole thing. There is no healing purpose behind trying to drive an evidence-lacking perspective into this specific situation. The end result of the OP fashioning her DIL as the problem will be estrangement. It will not bring her son closer to her, but further away. It's a hypothetical that is strictly meant to divide.

Taking a step back, not continuously broaching the subject that clearly enrages her son, it the best way forward. If he gets angry at the discussion, leave it be for a while. MIL, son, and DIL all seem to be hurt by each other's behavior. A step back can do wonders here.

User138562

whenwewereyoung

i read elsewhere that she wants to mend the relationship with her son.

if that's true then what i'm asking is: wouldn't she be better off taking the advice of parents who have had healthy reconciliations with their children instead of parents who haven't?

My thoughts exactly. I would say more but I have no desire to have my words dissected more than necessary.

I don't think contrary opinions are welcomed here. If the opinion isn't "EAC is a monster" or "EAC is doing it to hurt you" or "EAC is being controlled by a partner who is a monster" then it will be rejected.

There's something to be said for considering the audience in this scenario. OP likely is looking for validation not advice.

* If the opinion isn't "EAC is a monster" or "EAC is doing it to hurt you" or "EAC is being controlled by a partner who is a monster" then it will be rejected. *

i notice that sentiment a lot in this forum and it's sad. i feel like it's a very bad mindset to have if you want to stop a potential estrangement from happening.

very counterintuitive

Miss adventure your comment about narc mother in laws did not suddenly become such when their sons married
This person was a cherished child cos her brother died in infancy She was spoiled. Although the family were not well off she always had the best and kicked off if she didn’t get her own way She generally ruled the family. According to her cousin whom I met for the first time at her funeral but had spoken to her on phone
When MiL married she isolated her husband from his family and I believe friends
When sons were young she managed their friends
My husband was the golden boy and his brother the scape goat
My husband was blackmailed into accepting the student placement in his home city with the gift of a car
BUT once he started work she milked him dry financially
So yes once a Narcissist always one

I've been on this forum for more than 11 years whenwewereyoung and it's not my experience that what you've referred too is a sentiment that's seen a lot here. When it is, it's not just in relation to EP's and their EAC. It's also sometimes present when d's.i.l. are talking about their m's.i.l.

Examples of coercive controlling behaviour can often be traced back to childhood Gwyllt. Neither your husband as the golden child or his brother as the scapegoat, would have been unaffected by their mother's behaviour or your f.i.l., who found himself isolated from family and friends.

Gwyllt

Miss adventure your comment about narc mother in laws did not suddenly become such when their sons married
This person was a cherished child cos her brother died in infancy She was spoiled. Although the family were not well off she always had the best and kicked off if she didn’t get her own way She generally ruled the family. According to her cousin whom I met for the first time at her funeral but had spoken to her on phone
When MiL married she isolated her husband from his family and I believe friends
When sons were young she managed their friends
My husband was the golden boy and his brother the scape goat
My husband was blackmailed into accepting the student placement in his home city with the gift of a car
BUT once he started work she milked him dry financially
So yes once a Narcissist always one

Of course.
Which means she was a narcissist throughout her life.
As a young woman, as a wife and as a mother, and a daughter in law, as well as a mother in law.
Then merrily onwards into her later years.

I don’t think all dil are coersive and controlling, never said that. There are people young and old, who have to be in control and cause trouble. It’s hard luck if you get a mil or dil that’s like and not much you can do. Usually estrangement is over something that gets out of hand and escalates, people get stubborn and won’t engage, however usually they eventually make up.

No one to my knowledge has ever said that either Allsorts. As you say It's hard luck if you get a mil or dil that's like that and not much you can do.

and in my experience i notice that sentiment quite frequently.

whenwewereyoung

and in my experience i notice that sentiment quite frequently.

I also notice assumptions being made that the Parents/MiL or whoever MUST have "done something!" So assumptions can be made about anyone in this scenario of Estrangement really

But I also notice many posters both estranged AC and Estranged GPs/in laws or those fearing Estrangement or whatever , who respond differently according to the particular scenario being presented to them based on what they have been told.

I have certainly seen estranged GPs advising AC to walk away/steps back from their apparently toxic/abusive parent/inlaw based on information given.

I have also seen estranged AC suggest a poster walks away/steps back from their apparently toxic/abusive AC because of the information given.
Such posters don't deal in generalisations which seems a good way to go to me.

Madgran77

whenwewereyoung

and in my experience i notice that sentiment quite frequently.

I also notice assumptions being made that the Parents/MiL or whoever MUST have "done something!" So assumptions can be made about anyone in this scenario of Estrangement really

But I also notice many posters both estranged AC and Estranged GPs/in laws or those fearing Estrangement or whatever , who respond differently according to the particular scenario being presented to them based on what they have been told.

I have certainly seen estranged GPs advising AC to walk away/steps back from their apparently toxic/abusive parent/inlaw based on information given.

I have also seen estranged AC suggest a poster walks away/steps back from their apparently toxic/abusive AC because of the information given.
Such posters don't deal in generalisations which seems a good way to go to me.

clarifying question: are you referencing my comment about getting advice from people who have had successful healthy reconciliations instead of those who haven't?

No. It was a comment related to the comments above it about what different people had in thier experience noticed about sentiments expressed.

Reading those got me thinking about my own experience of what I have noticed over time on Estrangement threads. I was expressing that because I have NOT noticed one pattern in terms of sentiments expressed nor have I seen a standardisation of sentiments expressed by AC or GPs etc.

I DO also think ofcourse that advice from people who have had successful reconciliations can be very helpful. So can advice from others with different experiences depending on the context of what the problem is etc. Every case is different

Hi Madgran and all who read this thread… I’m one who was estranged for many years and have successfully ( I hope) reconciled for many more years.

I chose the route of acknowledging whatever wrongs I had unwittingly committed and made sure that all lines of communication were open but it still took all my powers of persuasion that bygones would be left behind and we could move on.

More than a decade later we have a caring relationship, different to what I anticipated, but on a more mature, adult basis of mutual understanding that we are so very different in our expectations of what constitutes a mother/daughter relationship.

I love her to bits and I now know that she knows it, without me feeling that she has to reciprocate it on a regular basis - we are equals in this interaction and seem to adapt it on a regular basis.

We have to respect that our offspring don’t necessarily deal with things in the way we do.