Is “ No Contact “ abuse ?

It's wonderful to hear from a parent who has successfully reconciled Pantglas .

Pantglas I am sure your advice will be helpful to those who are estranged and those who fear it for whatever reason. Good to hear such a positive outcome after, I expect, a lot of pain on both sides. 💐

@Allsorts you are right in saying that there’s not one size fits all with estrangement ( or possible estrangement) but it hurts . Yes , it really hurts terribly.

@Pantglas2
How lovely that you have reconciled. I sincerely hope one day I’m on here saying , yes , I’ve done it ! We are a family once more . Nothing would make me happier.
I would gladly accept responsibility for any slights or even perceived slights if it opened the door to communication with my DIL . I don’t really understand why she won’t even agree to try once more . In fact, if I am being pernickity I could say that the whole thing about me not having contact with my GS was her doing . On one occasion, I was trying to give my AS a hug and she took exception to this . Screaming at me , she told me he has his “ right to body autonomy “ which I didn’t understand so I laughed thinking it was a joke . Well it wasn’t a joke - she told him ( and me ) they were leaving my home , and if I thought I’d get my hands on HER child then she would make sure I never did. This was months ago and I’ve been threatened with NC with my GS ever since .
I’d happy let this incident go . I would never mention it again . We need to try to talk and move forward rather than backwards.
This whole situation has mushroomed from a couple of small incidents and grown into a full- blown rift which is heartbreaking. I am sure we can make life work again some day , but I’m wondering just how long I am made to suffer in the meantime. I’m certainly not abusive and/ or spiteful to either my son or his wife which makes this so hard to bear .
I am optimistic after reading your reply that with the necessary hard work, relationships can get back on track once more .

It certainly feels like abuse

Yes it does Missiseff and if that's how it feels, that's how it feels .

Today, Mothers Day, is so hard for so many of us. Love & strength to all who are estranged 🤗

Love & strength to you too BBNan .

Have you tried asking your son why he has pulled back and really listening to understand rather than listening to defend? I don't know anyone who has gone no or low contact with their parents for no reason. Usually its a choice for self preservation when nothing else has worked. I'm reading a lot of blame toward your son and DIL. I'd encourage you to look at yourself.

Every estrangement is different. They happen for a variety of reasons.

It’s not “usually” any one thing.

I do know ACs that have gone NC simply because they see their ageing parents as some sort of burden.😗

I honestly don't think that you can generalise and say that no contact is abuse.

Each case is individual and rests on the circumstances of why the NC has come about, surely?

If it became a legal form of abuse, then, my goodness, what a can of worms that would open up.

Upsetting as it is, it cannot be deemed to be "abuse" which is a very specific mode of behaviour, and has to be dealt with as such, regardless of the relationships.

Yes, of course it depends on varying circumstances. To say it’s always the fault of one side or another is naive.😗

Crocs

Have you tried asking your son why he has pulled back and really listening to understand rather than listening to defend? I don't know anyone who has gone no or low contact with their parents for no reason. Usually its a choice for self preservation when nothing else has worked. I'm reading a lot of blame toward your son and DIL. I'd encourage you to look at yourself.

I agree with this 100%.

I can confidently say that no contact is not something that typically happens for no reason. It's actually incredibly painful on both sides and the decision isn't made lightly. If it seems sudden and with "no explanation" then it is the result of a long standing issue in the relationship. No one is turning down a loving and caring relationship with family because they can.

The idea that no contact could be abuse is a way to shift blame away from oneself. Not recognizing or acknowledging the issue doesn't mean it never happened.

My mother was always the victim in her head and I'm sure that is still true. It can't be helped I suppose. She isn't the type to take in other's perspectives which is part of the problem.

You'll find this opinion isn't popular with many posters here.

User138562

Crocs

Have you tried asking your son why he has pulled back and really listening to understand rather than listening to defend? I don't know anyone who has gone no or low contact with their parents for no reason. Usually its a choice for self preservation when nothing else has worked. I'm reading a lot of blame toward your son and DIL. I'd encourage you to look at yourself.

I agree with this 100%.

I can confidently say that no contact is not something that typically happens for no reason. It's actually incredibly painful on both sides and the decision isn't made lightly. If it seems sudden and with "no explanation" then it is the result of a long standing issue in the relationship. No one is turning down a loving and caring relationship with family because they can.

The idea that no contact could be abuse is a way to shift blame away from oneself. Not recognizing or acknowledging the issue doesn't mean it never happened.

My mother was always the victim in her head and I'm sure that is still true. It can't be helped I suppose. She isn't the type to take in other's perspectives which is part of the problem.

You'll find this opinion isn't popular with many posters here.

I can confidently say that no contact is not something that typically happens for no reason.

This is the essential point.

My mother was always the victim in her head and I'm sure that is still true. It can't be helped I suppose. She isn't the type to take in other's perspectives which is part of the problem.

It's not easy when you're feeling victimised to see the situation (whatever it is) from the other's perspective. And I've been guilty of that in the past. But, I do know that unless you consider 'things' from the other person's POV, the situation will never be resolved.

My son taught me a lesson (he was not involved in the situation) - "Mum, pick your battles and don't sweat the small stuff". I'd become enraged about something that didn't really matter and couldn't see - from the other person's perspective - that it was important to him, but not to me... therefore I should not have made an 'issue' out of it. Goodness, it made life so much less complicated when I took that on board.

if it didn't really matter to you, why did you become enraged about it ?

My late husband’s eldest son cheerfully agreed that DH had been a great Dad, but he didn’t feel he wanted to be burdened with an older relative, who might need increasing help.

Who was at fault here?🤔

i wouldn't call it fault.
that's what i observe going on in lots of families; this one was just more honest about it.
it does seem unfeeling, ungrateful maybe, not compassionate, but so much of our culture now encourages extreme individualism, it's hardly surprising.
and i suppose he was stating his position, so you could plan accordingly; he was not going to be a resource you could draw on.

welbeck

if it didn't really matter to you, why did you become enraged about it ?

... because I'm an idiot perhaps?

I don't want to give personal details - so let's just say that it shouldn't have mattered to me because it had no material effect on my life, but it was an issue which I could use against the other person to score a point, so allowed myself to get angry about it.

welbeck

i wouldn't call it fault.
that's what i observe going on in lots of families; this one was just more honest about it.
it does seem unfeeling, ungrateful maybe, not compassionate, but so much of our culture now encourages extreme individualism, it's hardly surprising.
and i suppose he was stating his position, so you could plan accordingly; he was not going to be a resource you could draw on.

In over 20 years we had never, ever asked them for anything. Nothing. I looked after DH. I didn’t need their help.

He told his mother (by then, in a care home with physical disabilities and the onset of dementia) the same.

He told his MIL, nearly blind and virtually unable to move, the same again.

He did ask me how to avoid any care costs so that he could preserve his “inheritances” though.🙄

Strangely, when DH had just died, they were all over me like a rash.

Until they read his Will…I’ve never heard from them since lol

We reap what we sow.😉

Generalisations shouldn't be made at all. There are often similarities but no one can say what is and is not typical without doing extensive research, that includes the experiences of those who have estranged and those who have been estranged.

No one is turning down a loving and caring relationship with family because they can well some do User, which is why these generalisations are unhelpful and potentially upsetting for some who post on these threads.

I wouldn't attempt to invalidate your experience and it would be appreciated if you didn't seek to invalidate the experiences of others.

People don't have to have a relationship with anyone and it's not abusive to leave a relationship

Sometimes people just don't get on, there is a clash on opinions and values somewhere that just makes being around the other person uncomfortable

Sometimes people are just too much, loving but demanding or needy or dramatic and emotionally exhausting

Sometimes people are abusive. And being around them is constantly painful

There is always a reason and anyone from all 3 groups generally feels justified and likely feels like a victim.. It would be so much better, if the relationship has value, to work on those issues that exist

Smileless2012

Generalisations shouldn't be made at all. There are often similarities but no one can say what is and is not typical without doing extensive research, that includes the experiences of those who have estranged and those who have been estranged.

No one is turning down a loving and caring relationship with family because they can well some do User, which is why these generalisations are unhelpful and potentially upsetting for some who post on these threads.

I wouldn't attempt to invalidate your experience and it would be appreciated if you didn't seek to invalidate the experiences of others.

But, surely - if one individual loves and cares for another, and then without warning breaks all contact - there has to be a reason, however obscure that reason might be?

... this is just for the sake of debate, it's not a personal attack.

Yes Dickens there has to be a of reason but to say that no one is turning down a loving and caring relationship with family is saying that loving and caring families never get estranged, well they do.

It could be that the one who estranges doesn't love and care for the family or family member they've chosen to estrange, despite that family or family member being loving and caring.

I've estranged, and I've been estranged. I'm an American, and my family is very conservative. I'm not. My parents stopped going to church years before this happened, but they estranged me when I was 27 because I just got exasperated and said yes, I was sleeping with my boyfriend. I thought they'd just assumed that. Nope! They said they were taking me out of their wills (they didn't, as it turned out) and the mail I got was vicious: the word "whore" was part of it, for instance. I was angry and exasperated but just got on with what was a very busy life. The estrangement lasted till my father had a heart attack. My brother brought me to the hospital and my mother quoted the line from King Lear, "How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have an ungrateful child." My brother, who had never heard it, said "What does that mean?" I said "It's from King Lear. Lear says it because he has three children and he's angry because he thinks the youngest"--I was the youngest of three--"is ungrateful. Later it turns out that the other two try to kill him." Silence. Ooooo, BAD choice of a quotation, Mom. We slowly made up, and years later I was holding my father's hand when he died, telling him how much I loved him, because I did, profoundly.

I alienated one of my brothers a couple of years ago. I love him, and I thought we were on excellent terms. He had kidney cancer--he's in remission now--and we would talk cross-continent two or three times a week about all sorts of things. I was trying to be supportive, and I think I was. We told each other "You're my best friend." If he needed me I would have gotten on a plane, mid-pandemic, and gone to him. (Luckily that was unlikely--he's married and has three children who love and support him.) But even though we agreed not to talk politics . . . I am not an admirer of Donald Trump, and he is . . . he'd often drag something political into our phone calls and say things like "Ooops, I know I'm not supposed to mention politics" and I'd be irritated but say things like "Well have you seen any good movies lately?" and we'd move on.

A couple of years ago were trying to get the details on a family reunion sorted out and I kept asking him how long his doctor said we should isolate in an Airbnb before we saw him; the LAST thing I wanted was to bring covid his way. He just ignored that or said things like "My doctor doesn't give advice about covid." Oh right, in a pandemic. I kept writing emails and he kept dodging the question. I couldn't understand it. I took care of our brother who had a different cancer for years; I knew his doctors would have advice.

Then I emailed him for some advice about my son, whom he is close to. I have helped him with his kids, who are adults now, and been close to them for years, and he's often asked me for advice about them as they were growing up. His response is almost burned into my brain: it was an email that said "Any problem you have with your son is completely your fault. If you want to know who's the problem, go look in the mirror. I never want to see you again. Get help."

My husband says that in the 50 years he's know me he's never seen me so upset, or for such a long time. It was like a kick in the gut. I couldn't imagine he would say anything like it. I remember one day sitting in the bathtub with the water running and crying non-stop. I remember another day standing in the shower and crying non-stop. I didn't need running water to cry, though. I was a complete mess. My husband was stunned and then he was angry.

I wrote a vicious email back about all the many times I'd helped him and how wonderful I am--and I'm ashamed for doing that. He sent me something vicious back. I told my husband to go to the reunion; our son was flying in from abroad and I knew he'd want to see our him, but he decided he was not going. I certainly wasn't. After about five days I changed my phone number and got a new email address and told my son not to give either of them to my brother.

My son was FURIOUS with me. My brother and he'd been planning this reunion for a year and he thought I should just show up and sutptise him. My brother told him it was just a little mix-up and he and I would be on better terms soon. My brother certainly didn't apologize at any point. He's sent my husband a couple of emails but "Tell her I'm sorry for what I did" has not been in them. My son thought I was over-reacting. I didn't and don't. My brother can lash out at people--he had some problems with a DIL I love a lot and told his son "You need to choose between her and me." Dumb move: his son and DIL moved four states away in about a week.

I ultimately decided that I didn't want to be in contact with someone who knew me so well, genuinely loved me, and had that kind of massive cataclysmic ability to hurt me. But my son was furious for a long time, and the reunion happened on Mother's Day weekend. I heard nothing from him. I wasn't sure I ever would see him again. He insisted that my brother said I'd just "misinterpreted" things. I said "It's pretty hard to misinterpret 'I never want to see you again.'"

My son flew in from abroad and isolated for four days before the reunion. Afterwards he called and said "Well, Uncle R may get covid, but it won't be from me. No one isolated. No one wore a mask. Someone came in fresh from a trip to Disney World with his friends and wasn't masked." I honestly think my brother just didn't want me to witness the fact that he was not masking or asking people to isolate. I honestly think that was it.

I'm not unhappy about being estranged, frankly. I'm on good terms with his kids--we're in a Zoom book group together--and the truth is, my brother is a big talker and I mostly listened. He hurt my relationship with my son, at least for a while. And I really, really don't miss the sly insertions of Fox News into conversations.

My son invited us to visit him--yay!--and we spent two weeks together, traveling and enjoying ourselves hugely. Things are great with him; we talk to him about once a week and he has been saying we could get visas to stay with him for six months at a time. (That's lovely, but I am not about to stay with my son and his lovely partner for six months. I don't think any adult wants his parents around THAT much. I wish we could get a house swap, though.)

So: estranged by my parents for a time; estranged by my son for a time; and I've estranged my brother for all time and don't regret it. Whooo, this is a whale of a post.

I think the root is the while is it abuse argument is perhaps the most telling. The only way an adult choosing not to have a relationship with you could remotely be considered “abuse” is it you foolishly were entitled enough to think that a relationship with you was owed you. It is not. Full stop. - no one not even your adult children owe you anything. And while it’s easy to grandstand and say but what loving parent deserves …. Well a loving parent isn’t entitled enough to worry about what they’re owed to start. Sometimes personalities clash, values differ, sometimes (I believe often ) there have been conflicts within a relationship for so long to some of the participants they aren’t problems but “the way we’ve always been” while one party has simply suffered in silence, or simply suffered while being ignored and brushed off in their attempts to fix things. Eventually enough becomes enough. So you get so many “I was never told “. “Why won’t they just say what happened so we can fix it ?” When the cold
Heart truth may be they are no longer interested in fixing it. They don’t owe you an explanation so you can try to wriggle your way back in again often the estranger will tell you they have chance after chance while the estranged will claim to have been blindsided. There was an excellent article I read recently entitled the “missing missing reasons”. It made me think
Of my own in-laws whom I’m certain would claim they too “were never told “. Except they were told so many times in so many ways. They chose not to hear or see it. Only when there were consequences did it become “but why?!”” And no, once you we disengaged we walked away. We didn’t owe them another why.

In short no I don’t think estrangement is abuse. I think attempting to call it so is yet another attempt of some to make themselves out to be innocent victims. In reality I rarely believe anyone doesn’t know.