Strength after narcissistic abuse

@keepinquiet
There are actually many ways for individuals with serious and dangerous PD’s to be diagnosed. I maintain that an individual does not need insight into their mental health for a diagnosis to be obtained. I also accept that some will slip through the net and never be diagnosed. Sadly the MH services in the uk are vastly underfunded and many people for whatever reason refuse to engage with the services. In this instance they can’t be forced , I don’t have all the answers. Much like fleeing a person who is physically abusive , I’d always suggest fleeing someone who is mentally abusive, no matter what you suspect is wrong with them . I can imagine that considering the true meaning of narcissist, they can be very charming in order to achieve their objective. What many of the posters on here describe though isn’t something terrifying like you’ve discussed, but merely someone they don’t like or get on with . Those 2 things are polar opposites.

@Kate1949 you’re not hijacking the post imo , I think you are contributing.
I hope you are alright . Please take care

@gwyllit
I saw you’d had some eye surgery? I think I can understand what you say . I can only imagine that someone who truly has a diagnosis of NPD can be very scary if they go into meltdown. I don’t know if NPD is associated with violence though so I can’t comment on that

@Josie most people don’t end up being detained under the mental health act due to something said in a therapy session. Individuals are sectioned for all sorts of reasons and behaviours . I am not really understanding what point you are trying to make . I was pointing out that there are other opportunities for diagnosing very serious PD’s , one of which is detention in a psychiatric ward . You don’t need insight into your condition to end up in one of those places . People with NPD don’t go off to their doctor seeking help because as you’ve pointed out they either lack insight into their condition or they are too arrogant to believe they are defective in some way . Like all personality disorders, NPD is difficult to obtain a diagnosis because often the “ patient” is unwilling to engage with the services in the first place . What we are talking about here though is a person who is extremely unwell mentally and possibly a danger to society at large , not simply an estranged family member who you don’t like ( that’s a simple way of putting it my eyes are getting tired !) .

I grew up in a tough part of Liverpool (1950s) where it was quite common for kids to be given a "wallopping" or a "smack across the kisser" by their father. I can recall it happening to several of my friends for "talking back" to their parents. If both my sister and I had been beaten then I could have accepted that as the result of what parents did back then.

My sister was never touched. It was only later that I found out my parents had a shotgun wedding because she had fallen pregnant with me. So my father had to give up his carefree batchelor lifestyle and be a family man. I was to blame for all that. Hahaha.

I was pretty low contact with my parents from the time I first left home. However when I moved to another city I made it more and more difficult for them to contact me. No smart phones then. Only landlines and big brick mobiles which cost the earth.

I think the penny finally dropped when I told my mother they were no longer an important part of my life.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

I used narcissist to refer to a person displaying narcissistic personality traits, not necessarily with the disorder. It's a different but valid way to use the term. It describes observable behavior. I will continue to use the terms I want to describe my abuser even if some anonymous people on a forum choose to take offense.

Also, diagnostic criteria for mental health disorders is wildly arbitrary and there are huge inconsistencies and grey area in diagnostic criteria. The term NPD is used to describe a collection of symptoms, not some sacred term that only comes into existence with the agreement of a doctor.

I hope one day they get narcissistic victim syndrome into the DSM, this means people can be diagnosed as victims.... And potentially their abusers sued or prosecuted, perhaps even imprisoned

keepingquiet
Thank you for your very good description of narcissistic behaviour and the terrible consequences it has on the other person/people who become involved or into contact with that person. It is indeed a terrible position to be in if you find yourself involved with such a person. Of course people fall in love with such people because often the narcissist person will ‘love bomb’ their target until the target has fallen in love or become very involved with the narcissist person. The real personality gradually becomes visible, but usually not until massive damage has been done. It can cause huge mental health issues in the victim, who is then blamed for the problems in the relationship. If the person is already not the most confident person, the damage is worse. Narcissistic people tend to target people who are lacking in confidence, and if they don’t, the narcissist will soon ensure they lose their confidence. Narcissistic personalities cause terrible consequences for the people they meet, and it’s all very sad. Incidentally it all apparently stems from a lack of confidence in the narcissistic person and apparently a certain type of poor parenting can cause it.

My opinion only, but coercive control seems to fall under the umbrella of narcissistic behaviour. In England coercive control has been illegal since 2015, but for example, where I am now in New Zealand, it is not illegal and is only just beginning to be recognised by those in authority.

@JosieG
You misunderstood me . I was saying by using the term narcissist when a person is “ unpleasant “ doesn’t get on etc etc this is an incorrect interpretation and invalidates the seriousness of a true narcissist.
How do you know I have never encountered a person with NPD btw ? I’m certainly not lucky to have never been on the receiving end of such a person’s influence and behaviour. I got away fro this person many years ago but not before he attempted to destroy my life . Yes he was ( and still is ) totally insane. It’s just that within the context of estrangement, I didn’t think it was relevant to talk about this chapter in my life . Sorry we were at cross purposes there I feel.

My parents married because I was on the way. My mother blamed me for my conception and her unhappiness. It wasn't until I got older that I realised and I grew up wondering why she disliked me so much. I rushed into marriage to escape from her nastiness. Big mistake!
Now at last, I'm free from both her and my abusive husband, and am at peace with myself.
However, I still feel angry and still want revenge. The way you are brought up affects your whole outlook on life. So many people are not really fit to be parents.

Indicators of NPD will be visible during childhood but you're very unlikely to know what an adult narcissist you're unfortunate to come across was like as a child.

As was posted elsewhere recently, someone doesn't become a narcissist over night.

You're correct maddy that coercive control is symptomatic of NPD, and became an offence under the Serious Crime Act in the UK in 2015. Excellent post @ 04.40 .

I havent read all the thread yet.
Not sure I will have time for a couple of weeks, so will do later.

Two things from the earlier posts.

Is narcissism on a spectrum?
I know someone who essentially ticks 8 out of 10 main traits.

The other point is about forgiveness.
Forgiveness can be liberating from the person who forgives, point of view[no idea what that would do for the person with narc. Nothing much I presume. Or else, annoying to them].

Sometimes with forgiveness, it needs doing over and over, sadly.

I could say ‘I forgive you’ a thousand times, but I wouldn’t mean a word.
Anyway, you can’t really forgive someone for being the person they are, only the things that they do, or don’t do.
I don’t think about my mother much, I’m just so relieved I never have to see her again.

Ladysuise yes we were at cross purposes, I misunderstood what you were saying- having re-read, it sounds as if we were saying the same. Sorry - it was very late last night and my brain wasn’t working.

Ladysuisei

@Sago did your mother receive a diagnosis then , or was it a clash of personalities ( or similar) ?

What a cruel and thoughtless response.
The sort of response a narcissist would give.

My mother was an abusive narc, she allowed my father to physically abuse me and would incite him to do it.
She used to tell me how I was stupid, would end up in the gutter whilst praising my brother.
She once cleared my bank account to buy my brother a gift.

She told staff at school I was a compulsive liar just in case I mentioned the abuse that went on at home.

She turned friends and family against me to divide and rule.

I was like Cinderella, at the age of 11 I cleaned the house and was once beaten by her for using a squegee mop and not a scrubbing brush on the floor.

Any supposedly happy occasion she would ruin for me, she always had a drama up her sleeve, she managed it on the day of my first born, my wedding and a baptism.
I grew up hearing the words “I rue the day you were born”.

I could go on but some of it is still too painful.

Hardly a personality clash.

Thank you Smileless.

Sago
No, not a personality clash by the sound of it. She sounds cruel. I would call that behaviour cruel. Obviously I don’t know if she was narcissistic, but she was very cruel to you.
I’m not surprised you don’t see her now.

maddyone

Thank you Smileless.

Sago
No, not a personality clash by the sound of it. She sounds cruel. I would call that behaviour cruel. Obviously I don’t know if she was narcissistic, but she was very cruel to you.
I’m not surprised you don’t see her now.

It would be difficult, as I said in an earlier post she is dead.

@Josie yes I should have been asleep by then !! I hope you’re alright anyway and take care xxx

JosieGc

I really think if you had met someone with NPD or narcissistic traits you would have a different view. They just do not operate in a normal way, with normal interpersonal skills. Its more than just being ‘annoying’ or ‘unpleasant’ or ‘not getting on’. No its sheer insanity and most people discover that they may have been a victim of this type of abuse when they have reached breaking point and are trying to figure out what on earth happened to them with trained therapists. You clearly have never experienced this and I honestly am glad for you .

This is spot on Josie! My experience is that NPD is a 'hidden' condition. Most people don't actually see it because to them the person with NPD seems pretty normal. They don't get from them what you get, which is, as you say extreme coercion, manipulation and constant chaos. You begin to doubt your own judgement and start to believe it must be you that's the crazy one because no one else is being subject to the trauma that you are.
I also don't agree that it is only 'weak' people that fall victim to this behavior. I am unable to say too much about my involvement with a woman who has NPD, but let's just say because I am a very strong and resourceful person who cannot fully detach myself from her, her attempts to control and manipulate me has brought me to be judged the crazy one, but she has seriously under-estimated the content of my character. Having sought therapy I have regained my equilibrium and watching this individual unravel because her lies are now being found out, is actually no pleasure to me. She is a very sick and tortured and damaged human being who really deserves nothing but pity. No one can mend her except herself, and that is something she is not prepared to face even now. The lies and the attempts at coercion continue but I'm having none of it and she behaves like a frightened animal with no where to go. It is awful to witness. Only the very few who have experienced this level of damage can understand. I paid a lot of money for a therapist who supposedly specialised in narcissistic abuse but it turned out she knew nothing and couldn't help me. What she thought was narc abuse and what I was going through were not the same thing. Without the support of family and friends and who know and believe the things I have been saying I would be suicidal by now.

@Sago - please accept my apologies for replying in a thoughtless way . I’m sort it upset you , I was too tired to be wording something like this st that time of night .

Won’t happen again.

* I’m sorry

Harris27 I had the same situation - for years I was made to feel worthless, and I feel angry at times for not having broken away sooner. I have learned that people have only the power that you give them.

Ladysuisei

@VioletSky
Instead of posting Google fodder , why don’t you go onto Google Scholar and read up on some academic papers on this subject . You have a very basic grasp of the concept of narcissism I grant you that , but sadly it’s from magazine- type articles . You get the true facts from the academics, which is why I pointed you in the direction of Google scholar. Then we might be able to have a conversation about this .

On this forum we have known VioletSky for some years.
Her candour and bravery are to be admired, we have been through some of her journey with her.
Her grasp of the concept of narcissism is very real just like mine.
You are rude and patronising.