The next thread for friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life

Ladysuisei

@yogin and @DiamondLily I can’t help but hope things will be ok and we can make things work. It was my son who first mentioned the idea of me moving in . Well I don’t think it will be happening now . I’ll be lucky if I see him again considering he’s let me down on Mother’s Day and is out of contact as well . I’ve been trying to get hold of him but he’s obviously not got a conscience because anyone who blocks their mum today isn’t worth it . I can’t help still loving him though . I just really need him to call over , no gift required , give me a big hug and say mum I love you . I think I’m living in a dream world because this won’t happen. It’s the middle of the afternoon now and I’m stuck with my dad , unwashed hair feeling sorry for myself. I know him and his wife not seeing her mum because I’ve been in contact with her about something. They’re at home but I don’t want to turn up unannounced, which is why I’ve not done my hair . Won’t go out looking like this ! I speak in jest , but I’m hurting so badly from this rejection and I don’t think I will ever forgive him for not giving me a card - first time I’ve not had one in 30 years and I feel so upset . How have I raised such a monstrous child ? I can’t believe it

I really don’t think you can make things work at the moment. He doesn’t want you moving in, and he doesn’t want any contact with you.

However you feel, you really need to back off for a while.

Wash your hair, keep your Dad company, and sort out where you want to live. Do not turn up at their home. Regardless of who might be there.

You cannot live through your son.💐

Ladysui, I think you are being very insensitive. They are not seeing you or her mother as they obviously want a day to themselves before their child is born as dil is unwell. But you’ve made yourself the victim and it’s all about you, have you considered their feelings, they have made them clear but at every opportunity you try and get him to change his mind and you wonder why he gets angry
the only avenue open to him is not see you to avoid the discussion he doesn’t want, so your response has been constantly ringing or texting. Im afraid you’re going to have difficulty ever putting this right now.

GG65

Ladysuisei, you specifically said that your son had asked you to stop bringing up the topic of you not seeing your grandson (who isn’t even born yet).

Therefore, it was entirely predictable how your son would react to your father bringing up the topic of you not seeing your grandson.

Rather than spiralling into thoughts about your DIL being the “gatekeeper” and you saying you have no idea why your son is acting the way he is, maybe first try respecting his wishes i.e. not bringing up topics of conversation that he has said he doesn’t wish to discuss because it only leads to arguments (and not getting others to bring up those topics on your behalf).

I would imagine that by simply respecting your son’s wishes and boundaries, your relationship will improve.

Your son is desperately trying to salvage his relationship with you. Relationships are 50/50. He is doing his part. But he cannot carry 100% responsibility for the relationship. You are also responsible for your part. But you are pushing your 50% responsibility onto your son. If you continue doing this, the relationship will not improve.

Ladysu, this is what I said to you the last time this happened and I reiterate it to you again now:

I would imagine that by simply respecting your son’s wishes and boundaries, your relationship will improve.

Anger is a perfectly normal and healthy emotion to have and he has a right to be angry with you today. Feeling anger doesn’t mean we get to scream and shout at people, but it absolutely means that we can cancel plans and not respond to messages if we chose.

I really hope that he has blocked you and never gets to see the messages you have been sending him all day, because I can’t imagine anything good will come of him feeling absolutely hounded and harassed by you sending him emotionally charged and upsetting messages all day whilst his wife is only perhaps a week or so away from giving birth. I really hope that this is not the straw that breaks the camel’s back.

I will always recommend DBT to those with BPD. Especially when their significant relationships get to this point.

I don’t care how many times I’ve said it before, I need to say it to you again. DBT is the only way you are going to be able to change this dynamic by helping you see your part in it and make the appropriate changes. I would urge you to reconsider.

@Diamondliliy and @Allsorts well tbh I didn’t word that post particularly well . The implication was that my son blocked me because of this weekend. He blocks his phone whenever he’s out of contact then unblocks it when he wants to talk . So it wasn’t clear . Allsorts - I’m not being insensitive! Why do you say this ? My son had arranged to see me , made arrangements then backtracked at the last minute. His wife’s mum had other plans as I have been speaking with her today . It’s difficult to make a situation clear without explaining every detail down to the minutiae . My son is permanently moody , so this weekend is just another in a series of difficult times - blocking his phone doesn’t mean everything is lost and , in any case , a good friend who is very concerned about me at the moment has advised me to take care of myself as opposed to engaging in unpleasant situations with my son . He’s been incredibly selfish and insensitive towards me since my partner died - this isn’t something I’ve gone into in depth on here . More appropriate for the bereavement thread . I don’t know what other people’s expectations are when dealing with a sudden unexpected death ( bearing in mind I was only 58 at the time a slip of a lass ) but I did expect a bit of compassion and support from my son . Following the death , I was hospitalised within a week due to an adverse grief reaction where I spent the following 5 weeks. I wasn’t available to make arrangements etc and needed my son to take over . After all , he’s a professional person of 30 , more than capable of helping with these things , especially for his stepdad.
The dynamics changed with the pregnancy and given I didn’t know for the first 11 weeks we are talking about approx 6 months of assistance for me then my son concentrated on his own life . I dont live my life through my son but in my family we have always worked together to care and support each other - well up until my son decided that his needs are paramount. Prior to 2021 when my mother died , myself and my sister supported my dad caring for mum at home with Alzheimer’s for almost 13 years . For a lot of this time we were on hand day and night , since mum was totally bedridden for 10 years. I don’t think it’s too much to expect for some compassion and support he afforded to me when I was at my lowest point . My son is a grown man of 31 now and , given the support he’s already received from my family in general, a bit of give and take is definitely not too much to expect . That’s not living through my son , that’s expecting a fair amount of support. This is how I’ve been brought up anyway- my values are that family helps out and whoever needs support with a difficult situation should receive it . My son was brought up with the same values only he seems to have forgotten these during the past months . Allsorts- it’s fine that you say it’s no wonder my son gets angry? Why ? Because I don’t expect the goalposts to be shifted every time he makes an arrangement with me . Also , with the anger comes the abuse towards me - I’m certainly not a victim I don’t understand your interpretation here . I see my son as quite a cowardly person actually- he is incapable of adult conversation and when things get a bit tricky he either storms off or blocks his phone . This , to me , indicates a person who’s lacking in maturity. He can’t keep making arrangements then changing them because someone says something he doesn’t like . That’s the action of a child not an adult . He’s incredibly difficult to handle . I doubt anyone on here would be capable of keeping up with his unpredictable mood swings !!

GG65 - why are you quoting something that’s around 2 or 3 weeks out of date ?

Are you a health professional? Do you run a private practice offering DBT ? I was wondering why you keep advertising it as a solution to all of life’s problems that’s all .

Have you perhaps considered that , after all the poor treatment I’ve received from my son over the last few months maybe this weekend is the straw breaking my back ?
To let his mother down on Mother’s Day is pretty low in my opinion. My DIL does not need a babysitter- she’s currently doing well . Lots of women are still working right up until a few weeks before the birth ( like I did ) .

Ladysuisei

@Diamondliliy and @Allsorts well tbh I didn’t word that post particularly well . The implication was that my son blocked me because of this weekend. He blocks his phone whenever he’s out of contact then unblocks it when he wants to talk . So it wasn’t clear . Allsorts - I’m not being insensitive! Why do you say this ? My son had arranged to see me , made arrangements then backtracked at the last minute. His wife’s mum had other plans as I have been speaking with her today . It’s difficult to make a situation clear without explaining every detail down to the minutiae . My son is permanently moody , so this weekend is just another in a series of difficult times - blocking his phone doesn’t mean everything is lost and , in any case , a good friend who is very concerned about me at the moment has advised me to take care of myself as opposed to engaging in unpleasant situations with my son . He’s been incredibly selfish and insensitive towards me since my partner died - this isn’t something I’ve gone into in depth on here . More appropriate for the bereavement thread . I don’t know what other people’s expectations are when dealing with a sudden unexpected death ( bearing in mind I was only 58 at the time a slip of a lass ) but I did expect a bit of compassion and support from my son . Following the death , I was hospitalised within a week due to an adverse grief reaction where I spent the following 5 weeks. I wasn’t available to make arrangements etc and needed my son to take over . After all , he’s a professional person of 30 , more than capable of helping with these things , especially for his stepdad.
The dynamics changed with the pregnancy and given I didn’t know for the first 11 weeks we are talking about approx 6 months of assistance for me then my son concentrated on his own life . I dont live my life through my son but in my family we have always worked together to care and support each other - well up until my son decided that his needs are paramount. Prior to 2021 when my mother died , myself and my sister supported my dad caring for mum at home with Alzheimer’s for almost 13 years . For a lot of this time we were on hand day and night , since mum was totally bedridden for 10 years. I don’t think it’s too much to expect for some compassion and support he afforded to me when I was at my lowest point . My son is a grown man of 31 now and , given the support he’s already received from my family in general, a bit of give and take is definitely not too much to expect . That’s not living through my son , that’s expecting a fair amount of support. This is how I’ve been brought up anyway- my values are that family helps out and whoever needs support with a difficult situation should receive it . My son was brought up with the same values only he seems to have forgotten these during the past months . Allsorts- it’s fine that you say it’s no wonder my son gets angry? Why ? Because I don’t expect the goalposts to be shifted every time he makes an arrangement with me . Also , with the anger comes the abuse towards me - I’m certainly not a victim I don’t understand your interpretation here . I see my son as quite a cowardly person actually- he is incapable of adult conversation and when things get a bit tricky he either storms off or blocks his phone . This , to me , indicates a person who’s lacking in maturity. He can’t keep making arrangements then changing them because someone says something he doesn’t like . That’s the action of a child not an adult . He’s incredibly difficult to handle . I doubt anyone on here would be capable of keeping up with his unpredictable mood swings !!

Lady it is difficult when there is so much detail on a situation and it is easy to give a misleading impression. Your further detail provides further aspects that it might be helpful to consider

The implication was that my son blocked me because of this weekend. He blocks his phone whenever he’s out of contact then unblocks it when he wants to talk

Looking at this from his perspective have you ever though why he does this? . Does it connect to what you maybe do when you are upset ..as happened yesterday when you mentioned that you were texting him all afternoon? That type of response will make him feel harassed and overwhelmed by what will feel like a bombardment.

My son had arranged to see me , made arrangements then backtracked at the last minute. His wife’s mum had other plans as I have been speaking with her today

This was understandably upsetting and triggered an over whelming emotional response. The result from your son's perspective was an over stepping of his boundaries. His suddenly changing his mind...what might have caused that IF it was connected to you or his perception of your behaviours? Was it the reference to moving in, when he has made it clear that is not going to happen? Did that make him feel that a visit would be difficult, that you would be ignoring his boundaries?

My son is permanently moody , so this weekend is just another in a series of difficult times - blocking his phone doesn’t mean everything is lost and , in any case , a good friend who is very concerned about me at the moment has advised me to take care of myself as opposed to engaging in unpleasant situations with my son

I think many on here are also advocating the same as your friend Lady. You do need to take care if yourself and as has been mentioned before that may well include considering help via your GP and appropriate support.

I don’t think it’s too much to expect for some compassion and support he afforded to me when I was at my lowest point . My son is a grown man of 31 now and , given the support he’s already received from my family in general, a bit of give and take is definitely not too much to expect . That’s not living through my son , that’s expecting a fair amount of support.

There is no point expecting something, however much you may feel it's a justified expectation, when he has made it clear he is not going to give it. There is no point focusing on what it should be.

Allsorts- it’s fine that you say it’s no wonder my son gets angry? Why ? Because I don’t expect the goalposts to be shifted every time he makes an arrangement with me . Also , with the anger comes the abuse towards me - I’m certainly not a victim I don’t understand your interpretation here . I see my son as quite a cowardly person actually- he is incapable of adult conversation and when things get a bit tricky he either storms off or blocks his phone. He can’t keep making arrangements then changing them because someone says something he doesn’t like . That’s the action of a child not an adult . He’s incredibly difficult to handle

But he can keep changing the goalposts if he chooses to. Even though that may not be your expectation. He can keep changing arrangements if he chooses to as well. It may be "immature" or "childish" but it is where it is at for him in his relationship with you.

As discussed previously you can choose how you respond. That includes how you respond directly (the "calm" strategy) or to step back and at the very least take a break whilst you concentrate on your health, mental strength and your living arrangements.

Only you can decide Lady 💐

....sorry I meant to remove the quote above my post! I know it's annoying having to scroll past long quotes! 😏

@madgran lol yes I have done this myself with long quotes . Oh yesterday was inevitably a highly charged day . Both me and my AS acted incorrectly. It sometimes happens.
It’s so difficult to remain calm all the time when someone is really not being nice and they are shifting the goalposts all the time . I’ve said before that I find my son’s unpredictable shifts in mood very difficult to anticipate.
Well I know now what subject to stay off don’t I ! I’m never going to talk about housing with him again and most certainly not in the context of moving into his house for a while . What you need to remember is that he’s already promised this as an option if I was stuck . He’s changed his mind . I keep having to explain to my family why I’m not allowed to stay with my own son which is very difficult and upsetting. My family’s view is that my son is shirking his responsibilities by not helping me out in this way . Given everything that’s been given to him by way of help , it would be nice to think he’d help me . I’ve come to the conclusion this is a banned subject .
I do feel this weekend was bad and I allowed my son to get the better of me . That’s an understatement I suppose. Sometimes all this really gets me down . I’d like to know where I stand with him actually.
I’m going to be speaking to him on Saturday as usual so he says . So on the next phone call it will be no more than making arrangements and that’s it . It is a pity because I did think more meaningful conversation could be possible because the signs were there . Obviously I misjudged this and it’s back to calm strategy . I know I overstepped his boundaries yesterday with the messages but it’s so infuriating to be blocked simply because my son won’t engage in a conversation with me or my dad about things.
It does seem like I have to fall into line whilst he dictates what’s happening here . This really is not right . I’m a person who needs to know things , to plan ahead etc but I will reluctantly accept that for the time being, he’s dictating how things are going .

I do want us to be in each other’s lives , so in future I will think very hard before I message him or attempt to call . I would add that this is the first Mother’s Day i can remember where he’s completely blanked me which has caused me so much hurt it’s unbelievable

Lady it is so good that you can see your own mistakes in yesterday's upset; we can all learn from mistakes; some of my best learning has been from mistakes I've made! 😏

It is a pity because I did think more meaningful conversation could be possible because the signs were there . Obviously I misjudged this and it’s back to calm state

I think you have to suspend "reading signs" because the relationship is so fraught at the moment. Just stick to the "calm" strategy regardless of apparent signs or changes; it's hard and probably feels unbalanced and unfair but let him lead and don't engage in any potential triggers atall. Day to day. No more unless he specifically instigates and even then just answer questions and if opinions are given just "I see; I'll think about that!"

I do know how hard that is and how wrong it will feel but if you wish to see him and keep things at some level of contact it might be the only way at present. The "calm strategy" is a longer term strategy not a "quick fix"!

You have told your family why. You dont need to keep explaining surely; can you just say "Sadly nothing has changed!"

I know this is easier said than done Ladysu but you're going to have to lower your expectations if you want to maintain your relationship with your son and d.i.l. and be a part of your GS's life when he's born.

There's no point in looking back to how you helped your mum and dad when she was ill, and being angry or disappointed or frustrated, if your son sees his role and responsibilities differently.

I think you should take some time to look at what makes your relationship with him easier, and what doesn't. What you've tried in the past that works, and what doesn't.

As frustrating as it is, keeping any conversations light and simple, and avoiding his triggers which include living with them and if and when you'll see your GS, works. You're both able to remain calm and his visits are more pleasurable.

I suggested the other day that if you're talking about when you move out of your dad's and where you're thinking of moving too, make it a positive conversation. Tell him about any plans you may have and the arrangements to get the job done without asking him too, or making him feel that he should be helping in some way.

What I'm trying to say is let him see you as someone who isn't totally reliable on him for your happiness and all of your emotional and practical support.

Bombarding him with text messages doesn't work. As far as I can tell, he 'phones you every Saturday so wait for his call, and was talking to his m.i.l. yesterday really a good idea? Are they more than likely going to find out you did this, and see this as you checking up on what they are or are not doing?

TBH, even without everything else that's going on, I'd have been very annoyed if my m.i.l. had contacted my mum on Mothers day, and Mr. S. would have been too.

It does seem like I have to fall into line whilst he dictates what's happening here, yes it does look that way. Is it right? Well relationships should be reciprocal and healthy ones usually are but if this is how your relationship is going to be moving forward, only you can decide if this is the relationship you want and can live with.

I don't think that reluctantly accepting it is going to work in the long term if things remain as they are, because you need to understand that unless things change, and only he can make changes, this is how it will be.

I do not mean that you should ever accept his verbal abuse, that is completely unacceptable regardless of how stressed he may be feeling.

With just a few weeks until the baby is due, if he 'phones on Saturday and says he's calling on Sunday, regardless of how much you want to see him, please think about telling him you'd love too but if he thinks he should focus on his wife and getting ready for the new arrival, you'll be happy with a chat on the 'phone for the time being.

Give him space, he'll thank you for it.

Anyone who doesn't want to read over this ramble past it by. Also if you do read it and want to comment don't quote whole paragraphs back at me I hate that I know what I write. I don't mind the odd sentence but not the whole thing.

Ladysusiei I know how hard this is but you are a grown woman. You need to stand on your own 2 feet and rely on yourself not others. I had to do it when I was 45 when my husband died and I had been with him since I was 16. I didn't have a life without him. Then I still couldn't live the life I wanted because I had both parents and mother in law who needed me . The children where 20 and 16 when their dad died. We knew in 2001 he wouldn't live 5 years he died in 2004. I had not only my grief to cope with but helping my children with theirs . My parents where in bits because they loved him so much. His own mother denied he existed or had 2 grandchildren. Plus my health and mobility was getting worse.

By 2006 both children had left home permanently it's what I wanted and they needed to live their lives. Both the children can back to here where I now live. My daughter to live with her boyfriend and get a good job instead of temp work where I lived as there where no jobs for her to use her degree. My son went to the same uni as his sister.

So I was on my own which is how it should be. We raised our children to be adults with good values but we have to let them go. They need to live their own lives . I told both of them me and their dad had our time it was time for them to live theirs I have never regretted telling them that.

But I had no life I had 13 years on my own as I have said before. Even though disabled others needed me and I couldn't do what I wanted or have a new life. But I couldn't abandon my parents or my mother in law who I hated. So I stayed over 100 miles from my children. Only saw them every few months. When they left they made me promise to text them everyday just to let them know I was ok. My daughter always replied. My son would get back to me after a couple of days. But I understood as they both had full time jobs their partners as well. If I forgot to text I had frantic messages from them asking if I was ok..

In his email my son held me texting everyday before I moved here against me and yet they both made me promise to do just that.

After having my mom live with me for 18 months with cancer and dementia I vowed never to live with my children . If I became that ill I would have carers or go into a home. It wasn't until after my mom died I realised how much looking after everyone cost me healthwise. And always realised I hadn't had time to let my grief out as I held it in from everyone else. Foolishly I thought I had to be brave for others.

After mom's funeral I didn't realise that was seriously ill. I just thought my whole life of pain,falls ,other things my body did and bringing up the children,my husband cancer and death then looking after others my body was telling me to rest. Then thought I had flu. I couldn't see I was yellow it's only when I was so ill I had to call my GP out she told me . I had jaundice caused by 2 tablets I had been on since 1992 this was in 2017. I had never thought to question the length of time I was on them as they no longer helped . But as usual I had always put others first.

I have never been frightened living on my own until I came out of hospital and for once I needed someone with me 24/7 and there was no one. Because I had been denied any disability benefits from 1988 as I kept being told no diagnosis no money. I had to be very careful with what my husband left me so couldn't hire help. My brother and nephew came when they could for a hour and the children came for the day occasionally . They both saw me in hospital but once home I never told them exactly how ill I was or I was frightened. My daughter and son in law both had hire powered jobs. My son and daughter in law had my grandson who was a baby plus moving into the home they brought during this time.

I found out when my gastrologist discharged me people with my bilirubin levels normally died. I was lucky after 5 months not to have any lasting liver damage. But it took me another 5-6 months to get back to sort of my usual self .

But never once during all that time had I wanted to live with my children. But I had a good think about what I wanted out of my life now I was free to live the life my husband wanted for me . Finally my time . Only 3 things lose weight,move and get fit.

Both my children had wanted me to live closer to them for years . So I knew what part of the country to move to. Plus I knew I had to have a bungalow and only needed 2 bedrooms.

So I have done what I set out to do. Moving here was the best thing to could have done . Yes it cost me my son and grandsons but I have more positives in my life and live the life of want on my own. I am dependent on
no one and never want to be. I love seeing my daughter and grandsons but I never ask she say is it ok if we come out or do you want to come here or popping out do you want to come . I say yes every time. Because they want me.

Once I moved 40 mins via car to where my son and family live I was never invited to their home. My son came here every week for 7 months with his 2 eldest for lunch and play. My daughter in law could have come but never did. Over the years when I lived 100+ miles away she should me kindnesses. Seems I live to close but I don't totally blame her my son shares the blame for the estrangement equally. But if they thought to destroy me they are sadly mistaken.

I live for the now and future the past has gone it's done with. I live my life to the full. And let go of my son. I still love him and my grandsons and always will. But I love the son I had for 32 years not who he is now he is a stranger. And someone I wouldn't like.

Ladysusiei live your life as your partner would want . You aren't the only one with health problems here but you can still live a full life by yourself. But you have to stop relying on others. It's hard making decisions on your own and I have said many times but you have to . The past is gone. Your grief and love for your partner will be with you forever treasure that.

Move forward and that means leave your son alone . You have more things to get sorted like your living arrangements. You need to move to somewhere you know you won't be told to leave in 6-12 months like the landlord house if he decides to sell again. Do you really need a house not just thinking about your health now but in years to come.

You need to have a good think about what you want out of life and do it. On your own. Don't make your health an excuse for not doing it . If I did that I wouldn't have done what I have my whole life and I will be 66 next month. You are younger.

@madgran thank you for your wise advice again ! Yes learning from our mistakes might not be the best but there we are . I have learned something this weekend.
In fact I reread your reply and yes , I do think he’s blocked me in response to my actions when I do get upset . This morning my dad , bless him says he can see how hurt I was yesterday and he is sad he can’t change things .
I find it odd that my son uses the block facility on his phone to screen calls and to decide whether or not he wants to speak - surely muting it would achieve the same objective? He is being quite extreme but I don’t mind either way .
He knows that my vulnerability lies in needing certainty, I know his vulnerability lies with controlling his bad temper. We both have things we could do with improving.

I certainly agree with you that testing the waters with meaningful conversation hasn’t worked so it’s back to calm strategy . Without the disappointment of Mother’s Day rejection I feel I can easily go back to this with him .
Now , as the birth of the baby will be within the next few weeks, I wont attempt anything more than light chat anymore. I certainly don’t intend asking if I can see the child - I don’t think this will be helpful. Actually for the time being I’m trying to forget that being a nannie is imminent. It’s been very hard but I think I’ve detached myself from the situation now . I can cope not seeing the baby as much as it will hurt , I can’t be arguing with my son over whether this will be possible because I know it will end badly .
On Saturday despite indicating he wouldn’t come yesterday, he said he’d see me next week. So all I can hope for is a better phone call leading to calm Sunday.

So sorry to hear about your rotten Mother's Day Smiles. It was very good of you to go to the church, trying to help as not many in the choir. Well, you know for next time. I've said before that I can't go to church without crying, I'm getting better as the years roll by.

How lovely of your girl next door to give you flowers & a card, very thoughtful of her.

Some from me.

Smileless2012

I know this is easier said than done Ladysu but you're going to have to lower your expectations if you want to maintain your relationship with your son and d.i.l. and be a part of your GS's life when he's born.

There's no point in looking back to how you helped your mum and dad when she was ill, and being angry or disappointed or frustrated, if your son sees his role and responsibilities differently.

I think you should take some time to look at what makes your relationship with him easier, and what doesn't. What you've tried in the past that works, and what doesn't.

As frustrating as it is, keeping any conversations light and simple, and avoiding his triggers which include living with them and if and when you'll see your GS, works. You're both able to remain calm and his visits are more pleasurable.

I suggested the other day that if you're talking about when you move out of your dad's and where you're thinking of moving too, make it a positive conversation. Tell him about any plans you may have and the arrangements to get the job done without asking him too, or making him feel that he should be helping in some way.

What I'm trying to say is let him see you as someone who isn't totally reliable on him for your happiness and all of your emotional and practical support.

Bombarding him with text messages doesn't work. As far as I can tell, he 'phones you every Saturday so wait for his call, and was talking to his m.i.l. yesterday really a good idea? Are they more than likely going to find out you did this, and see this as you checking up on what they are or are not doing?

TBH, even without everything else that's going on, I'd have been very annoyed if my m.i.l. had contacted my mum on Mothers day, and Mr. S. would have been too.

It does seem like I have to fall into line whilst he dictates what's happening here, yes it does look that way. Is it right? Well relationships should be reciprocal and healthy ones usually are but if this is how your relationship is going to be moving forward, only you can decide if this is the relationship you want and can live with.

I don't think that reluctantly accepting it is going to work in the long term if things remain as they are, because you need to understand that unless things change, and only he can make changes, this is how it will be.

I do not mean that you should ever accept his verbal abuse, that is completely unacceptable regardless of how stressed he may be feeling.

With just a few weeks until the baby is due, if he 'phones on Saturday and says he's calling on Sunday, regardless of how much you want to see him, please think about telling him you'd love too but if he thinks he should focus on his wife and getting ready for the new arrival, you'll be happy with a chat on the 'phone for the time being.

Give him space, he'll thank you for it.

@Smiles I’ve lowered my expectations a fair bit over the last few months - we all know how bad the Mother’s Day experience is once you’ve been rejected . I was feeling so low yesterday. Actually I chat with his mil a fair bit because we are actually friends and she sometimes gives me a lift places so , no he won’t be annoyed. Anyway I didn’t say or do anything that could be reported back making things worse .

I do think from his perspective a quiet life in general is what he wants . I personally don’t know how long I can stand this for . I might well have to say to him look if you’re not prepared to contribute more to this relationship then maybe I need some time out . We will see on this one . It’s interesting how things are developing.
I have always valued his opinions and input into things I did myself and also things my partner and I did . It’s strange not being fully engaged with him but I do know which subjects work and which ones don’t .

I am happy to give him space but on the weekend if I ask if he’s happy to come see us then I won’t tell him no . You can rest assured that my son will only ever do what he wants to , as he demonstrated yesterday.

I don’t know if I’m going to be happy with a one way relationship where he calls all the shots . Maybe in time I’ll find a new way to accept this , because I’ll be thinking differently too . I can’t go on the way I was yesterday. I sent a final message with an apology for being so intense yesterday, but nothing excuse’s verbally abusing me and that’s where I will draw the line . I will adopt the Madgran calm strategy but I won’t tolerate verbal abuse again . He’s largely stopped this , which is why I incorrectly assumed things were going to be better with meaningful conversation. He’s obviously not willing to do this at the moment.

Actually when he’s been coming over on a Sunday in a better mood , he seems to enjoy getting out of the house . I’m really not sure what goes on between their 4 walls but my son and DIL are not really seeing anyone st the moment. I find it odd because at this stage of my pregnancy with him , I was seeing family and friends at home quite a bit - I was on my maternity leave and enjoying the company. I don’t understand what’s happening with them but I won’t ask .?

@Smiles meant to say sorry you also had a bad day yesterday. Panic attacks are horrible and I suffer from them a lot . Yesterday my generalised anxiety was so bad I’m suffering after effects in my body today . It’s awful .

@whiff - I’ll read your rankings later when I have time to reply . Take care

Whiff sorry to hear your DD is not well, I wish her better & hope you still had a good Sunday xx

Mother's Day for Birdie Spring Jaffacake and all the other estranged mother's reading this

ladysu so very sorry to hear your son didn't visit or send a card or message . You really need to find something to occupy your mind. Yoga, a nice long walk, a drive out to a different village, join a gym or community centre but do this daily. How about a little dog to love and look after, with lots of walks in the park or beach if you have one nearby, you need something more in your life to stop you hurting from your son's rejections.

Allsorts xx

Ladysuisei

GG65 - why are you quoting something that’s around 2 or 3 weeks out of date ?

Are you a health professional? Do you run a private practice offering DBT ? I was wondering why you keep advertising it as a solution to all of life’s problems that’s all .

Have you perhaps considered that , after all the poor treatment I’ve received from my son over the last few months maybe this weekend is the straw breaking my back ?
To let his mother down on Mother’s Day is pretty low in my opinion. My DIL does not need a babysitter- she’s currently doing well . Lots of women are still working right up until a few weeks before the birth ( like I did ) .

I have experience in this area Ladysu. Hence, why I keep responding to your posts.

Are you a health professional? Do you run a private practice offering DBT ? I was wondering why you keep advertising it as a solution to all of life’s problems that’s all

No, I am not advertising DBT for my own personal gain. I am trying to help you. It is gut wrenching to see you self sabotage to the extent that you may lose your relationship with your son, his wife and their child. It doesn’t have to be this way. Of course DBT is not a solution to all of life’s problems, but it is a very effective in treating BPD.

I fear the situation will only intensify once the baby arrives and I would urge you to reach out for the appropriate support before the situation deteriorates any further.

LadySui. You need to listen to your son.

He has told you that you cannot live with him, so stop asking. You are not stuck for housing - you have two flat and a previous house to choose from.

He’s made it clear he doesn’t want heavy conversations, so keep it light.

He has told you to stop messaging/calling, so don’t try to.

When our kids find partners, we drop down the pecking order. His priority is his wife, and impending family - rightly.

You really need to listen to what he’s saying.

When this baby comes home, his life will be all about wife and child, at least for a while.

Your DIL will probably gravitate towards her own mum, at first, because that’s normal.

He had, to be fair, already let you know he wouldn’t be coming yesterday - he’d said “hope you enjoy Mother’s Day alone” - not good, but he had made it clear.

I really would just rebuild your life, difficult as it is without a partner, and stop relying on your son.💐

Ladysuisei

Smileless2012

I know this is easier said than done Ladysu but you're going to have to lower your expectations if you want to maintain your relationship with your son and d.i.l. and be a part of your GS's life when he's born.

There's no point in looking back to how you helped your mum and dad when she was ill, and being angry or disappointed or frustrated, if your son sees his role and responsibilities differently.

I think you should take some time to look at what makes your relationship with him easier, and what doesn't. What you've tried in the past that works, and what doesn't.

As frustrating as it is, keeping any conversations light and simple, and avoiding his triggers which include living with them and if and when you'll see your GS, works. You're both able to remain calm and his visits are more pleasurable.

I suggested the other day that if you're talking about when you move out of your dad's and where you're thinking of moving too, make it a positive conversation. Tell him about any plans you may have and the arrangements to get the job done without asking him too, or making him feel that he should be helping in some way.

What I'm trying to say is let him see you as someone who isn't totally reliable on him for your happiness and all of your emotional and practical support.

Bombarding him with text messages doesn't work. As far as I can tell, he 'phones you every Saturday so wait for his call, and was talking to his m.i.l. yesterday really a good idea? Are they more than likely going to find out you did this, and see this as you checking up on what they are or are not doing?

TBH, even without everything else that's going on, I'd have been very annoyed if my m.i.l. had contacted my mum on Mothers day, and Mr. S. would have been too.

It does seem like I have to fall into line whilst he dictates what's happening here, yes it does look that way. Is it right? Well relationships should be reciprocal and healthy ones usually are but if this is how your relationship is going to be moving forward, only you can decide if this is the relationship you want and can live with.

I don't think that reluctantly accepting it is going to work in the long term if things remain as they are, because you need to understand that unless things change, and only he can make changes, this is how it will be.

I do not mean that you should ever accept his verbal abuse, that is completely unacceptable regardless of how stressed he may be feeling.

With just a few weeks until the baby is due, if he 'phones on Saturday and says he's calling on Sunday, regardless of how much you want to see him, please think about telling him you'd love too but if he thinks he should focus on his wife and getting ready for the new arrival, you'll be happy with a chat on the 'phone for the time being.

Give him space, he'll thank you for it.

@Smiles I’ve lowered my expectations a fair bit over the last few months - we all know how bad the Mother’s Day experience is once you’ve been rejected . I was feeling so low yesterday. Actually I chat with his mil a fair bit because we are actually friends and she sometimes gives me a lift places so , no he won’t be annoyed. Anyway I didn’t say or do anything that could be reported back making things worse .

I do think from his perspective a quiet life in general is what he wants . I personally don’t know how long I can stand this for . I might well have to say to him look if you’re not prepared to contribute more to this relationship then maybe I need some time out . We will see on this one . It’s interesting how things are developing.
I have always valued his opinions and input into things I did myself and also things my partner and I did . It’s strange not being fully engaged with him but I do know which subjects work and which ones don’t .

I am happy to give him space but on the weekend if I ask if he’s happy to come see us then I won’t tell him no . You can rest assured that my son will only ever do what he wants to , as he demonstrated yesterday.

I don’t know if I’m going to be happy with a one way relationship where he calls all the shots . Maybe in time I’ll find a new way to accept this , because I’ll be thinking differently too . I can’t go on the way I was yesterday. I sent a final message with an apology for being so intense yesterday, but nothing excuse’s verbally abusing me and that’s where I will draw the line . I will adopt the Madgran calm strategy but I won’t tolerate verbal abuse again . He’s largely stopped this , which is why I incorrectly assumed things were going to be better with meaningful conversation. He’s obviously not willing to do this at the moment.

Actually when he’s been coming over on a Sunday in a better mood , he seems to enjoy getting out of the house . I’m really not sure what goes on between their 4 walls but my son and DIL are not really seeing anyone st the moment. I find it odd because at this stage of my pregnancy with him , I was seeing family and friends at home quite a bit - I was on my maternity leave and enjoying the company. I don’t understand what’s happening with them but I won’t ask .?

Ladysu, what's going on with them isn't really for anyone to have to understand. It's not odd that they choose differently that you. It's not odd that your son isn't stepping into the role of your primary support and caretaker just because you have expectations based on your own experiences. He is an adult with his own mind and needs. He isn't merely an extension of you, so what you expect of him due to your values needs to be reeled in. It's not fair to him or his wife. What he wants matters. What he expects of his relationship with you matters. It's not just about what you want.

It may not be your intention, but sending a barrage of messages rather than letting things cool off organically is extremely antagonistic. He is doing the right thing by blocking you because you are not respectful of his feelings and wishes.

You stated that you think a quiet life was all he wants (which is fair and admirable imo). You follow that up with: "I personally don't know how long I can stand for this." This is precisely the problem. You don't get to decide that another adult's boundaries should be temporary or only in place as long as you are able to tolerate them. Giving birth to the adult doesn't give anyone that right. That's not how life works. This is what he wants from your relationship. You can choose not to have a relationship with him if you are unable to respect his boundaries, but you cannot choose for him what his boundaries are and how long they can be in place. His boundaries are contact on the weekends. That's what he wants. His boundaries include not discussing decisions such as living in his home or contact with his child. He has been clear on this time after time. Pushing boundaries is a form of provocation whether you see it that way or not. If you cannot respect them, you can choose not to take his calls. He clearly cannot handle everything going on with you right now, and that's okay. He will not change his mind about his decisions, and if he does one day it will not be because you've convinced him to. You have several incidents of ugly confrontation to prove that you aren't going to change his mind.

Take the truth of the situation and focus on yourself right now. Separate your expectations of him from what you need to do to get your life in order. If he provides additional support, that's wonderful but stop factoring him into he equation. When you take your life into your own hands and lead your own self-improvement, you feel much better about it. I was a young widow with a young child and little family support due to distance when I lost my first husband. Life can and will go on without leaning on your adult son. Millions of people do it every day. You can too. And guess what? God forbid anything ever happened to your son, you'd be forced to take care of yourself anyway. We are people who have lost loved ones relatively young and unexpectedly, so you should absolutely have better perspective on this. Your son was never meant to replace your partner in support for you. You have immediate goals right now to get yourself back on the right track. Focusing on your son distracts from your goals. He is focusing on keeping his own house in order. Follow his lead for your own peace of mind.

Your son has a right to change his mind, he doesn’t need to keep explaining the same points. He got angry because you won’t accept his decision or his wife’s, they are a team, he didn’t want to get angry so has distanced. I have never had to block anyone as usually people respect the right to your own views.

Hello Ladysu.

I used to post on this thread because at one time I was exactly where you are now, a grieving widow who was fearful of being estranged from my son and DIL and never having a relationship with my grandchildren.

I had been walking on eggshells for about three years but our relationship really deteriorated until eventually there was a brief period of estrangement lasting for 10 weeks.

I read everything I could about estrangement, watched a lot of you tube videos and joined this thread and a couple of other forums. I received a lot of support and friendship, especially on this thread, for which I was very grateful.

You are not estranged yet, there is still a window of opportunity open to you. Your son may be blowing hot and cold but he is still communicating with you and visiting you. That's a positive. You are still in with a chance IF you tread warily.

You may want and indeed need more but at the moment he can't give you more. He has a lot on his plate, what with his wife's mental health issues, the pregnancy, the impending birth. He probably has very little left in the tank right now. I agree he shouldn't shout and swear at you but some people just don't handle stress or pressure very well. It sounds as if he isn't coping well and so he is shutting you out because he feels overwhelmed.

You have been given some very good advice on here so I won't cover the same ground. But I will tell you this, if you adopt some of strategies that have been suggested then you will stand a very good chance of success.

I did exactly what has been suggested to you. I backed off and allowed my son to set the pace. After 10 weeks of estrangement he contacted me and offered an olive branch. I accepted it with grace and charm. When he visited I kept things light, kept conversations bright and breezy. After another few weeks my DIL started visiting again. Since then she has apologised, fences have been mended and we are all fully reconciled. No recriminations or bitterness, it's all water under the bridge. It just took a little time and patience.

Be patient and give him time. Make no demands, don't apply pressure, don't make him feel guilty. Wait and see. In the meantime look to your own happiness. You are not alone, you still have your father, who clearly cares very much for you. Find a nice place to live. Summer is coming so get out and about. Put yourself first, maybe revamp your wardrobe.

You will never get over the loss of the love of your life but you can build a good rewarding life.

Good luck, have courage and take care of yourself. 💐.

Wise post Derbyshire Lass, as ever!

Great advice DerbyshireLass and lovely to see you here and know that all continues to go well .