The next thread for friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life

Yes, I worked full time, for most of the years, as did my ex. It is tough to fit everything in.

He was working long hours, often shift work, so I had to get on with it.

Certainly, with favours, I had to curtail it, but I did try to visit my parents, with the kids, once a week, and we did phone each other a couple of times a week.

When I had my daughter, 1975, men generally took a week’s leave when Mum left hospital, so I suppose it was different then.

Luckily, my daughter was a contented, “easy”, baby (unlike my son, 18 months (😑) later), so it seemed pretty simple.

I went out, I had people visiting and it was nice.

A happy time.🙂

As I’ve said, I wouldn’t be a guarantor for anyone, but the odd favour? Yes, fine. It depends how many favours are being asked for.

Ladysusiei I suppose because I was widowed at 45 I have never expected my children to help me . And 2 years after their dad died both left home permanently. It's what I wanted they had to live their own lives .

So have had to be self reliant since my husband died. Plus had both parents and mother in law to look after even though disabled and in constant pain but they needed me .

The children visited as often as work allowed and I visited them 2-3 times a year for 4 days staying in a hotel until my daughter and son in law brought their first house. As both couples didn't have a spare room for me to stay in until them . I always stayed with my daughter as they had a spare room . Even when they had a spare room never invited to stay with my son and future daughter in law. I always went on the train to visit my children apart from Christmas once my daughter and son in law had their house and usually it was my daughter who fetched me on the 23rd very occasionally my son and brought me home on the 27th. Before that my daughter came to me for Christmas and my son new year.

I relied on myself took buses or taxis . Made all my own decisions which was hard . When I decided to put my house on the I did it all myself . Packing ,sorting out what I didn't want and gave those things to charity . My children took what they wanted when they left home and told me they didn't want anything else. My brother and nephew had a few things . And my nephew took things to the tip for me . I don't drive . He offered I didn't ask . I would have paid someone to do it if he hadn't offered. Did all my own packing and organised everything myself. I was 61 when I moved here.

My son emptied the loft for me as I couldn't do that . He did it on a day they visited . So it was at his convenience .

I have never expected my children to do things things for me . Very really have I asked them for help. And then it's only something I can't do myself or if I needed help in an emergency like when I had seizures or my heart went crackers. It was mainly my daughter who took me to a&e. My son took me a couple of times. And I know my daughter in law hated that.

After my husband died I knew I had to be independent and only rely on myself. My children had they own lives to live . Like I told them their dad and I had our time now was theirs. Yes I missed them and used to sit in their bedrooms on low days. But my house wasn't home after my husband died. It was just a house.

When you are on your own you have to stand on your own feet and rely on yourself. And don't expect your children to do things for you. I am capable of doing and sorting things out for myself.

Why did you say' I will never change my stance that he should do more to help. ' You are capable to do things for yourself and organise things yourself. You don't need your son's help you can do things yourself. It's wrong to expect him to help. You are not helpless . Doesn't matter what he promised in the past it's gone. Live for the now and future on your own .

He has his own family to look after and expecting him to help you isn't helping your relationship and you will find yourself fully estranged and never see him or your grandson ever again.

I didn't rely on my son and still he dumped me .

Morning all

Lovely day, sunny & dry. Will be putting my washing on line and then nice walkies with Joey.

I had a wonderful time in Disney land with all the family, 10 of us. So much walking though! Saturday was so hot, about 25` I believe. The journey was tough, 2 trains, lots of walking between stations, got to Kings Cross and went wrong way to hotel adding even more walking to our journey. Hotel was lovely, had a nice meal then off to bed ready for early start next day.

Euro Star to Lillie and then final train into Disney land. We stayed in the 'Wild West' themed part, Jesse James was our building. All lovely.

Coming back was made worse by train strike. We had to change our planned route, went to nearest station and got taxi from there, had to get 2 as didn't have car big enough for us 5.

Had a good rest yesterday, now back to normal today, teaching tonight then off to Tesco!

Lots to read, read one page and now onto the next 4! Coffee first

Hope all's good with you all xx

Hello Yogin great to have you back and so pleased you enjoyed your time at Disney Land. It's exhausting isn't it because there's so much to see and you want to see it all.

You'll have to tell us what your 'best bits' were .

We just have to accept people and situations as they are Ladysu, so for whatever the reasons why your son isn't prepared to help you, you have to accept that that's how things are now even if you do so reluctantly.

I really believe, and certainly hope that being totally independent and organising everything for your upcoming move yourself, will be good for your self esteem and self confidence.

You'll be able to see what you've accomplished and feel proud of yourself and moving forward, will be able to draw on that for other things, like for example having a few refresher driving lessons to regain your confidence, getting a small car and becoming totally independent for transport.

I'm not trying to underestimate how challenging this is for you without your partner. I know how challenging our move here was, and we had each other. I also know how much harder it is when the move is only happening because of a heart breaking situation .

Part of the trouble is that spousal bereavement has this curious effect of absolutely shattering your confidence. I’m pretty confident by nature, but, for weeks, I felt incapable of making the simplest of decisions.

I had so called “Widow's fog” - I lost everything I put down anywhere. . Bits of paper, forms, certificates - so frustrating. In the end I got a cardboard box, and put all and any stuff in there, so I knew where things were.🙄

I lost glasses, a phone, keys etc - found most of them!

But, I learned to just write a list and plough through things, one by one.

And, as time goes on, you realise you can actually do it!

Not easy. 🙂

DiamondLily if I didn't write things down I forget been doing it my whole life. I wish when my husband was alive we had written on backs of photos as when my health got worse in 1988 and the limb jerks started I lost so of my memories of our time before the children. I look at pics and have no idea when or where they were taken he used to tell me .

Since he died must admit my confidence has grown as it had to because I had both parents and mother in law depandant on me . And having to make decisions for and about them as well as for myself. Dad died 3 years after my husband mom went to pieces. So had to take over looking after her financial matters as dad had done it all. Mom hadn't a clue as to what and who they paid money to. Plus health matters with mom and mother in law.

I gain confidence because I had to but I lost me . My house wasn't home without my husband it was just a house and I didn't want to be there. But I couldn't move.

I only found me when I moved here and my confidence has soared . Plus finally having both my diagnosis of what I was born with and having treatment has changed my life for the better. Lost my son and grandsons but that was his choice.

Lost count of the times I have gone to put my reading glasses while still wearing my distance ones or gone to wash my face with soapy hands only to realise I have my glasses on or walked in to shower with them on. I have to put things back in the same place otherwise I can't find them .

I recently brought an Amazon fire stick I had to write an idiots guide how to use it as my daughter went through how to work it after she set it up. I couldn't even get the back off the controller to put the batteries in🤦.

As soon as you are widowed even if you know your husband is going to died you have all these decisions to make straight away. My husband wrote lists and pinned them up in the study of who to call once he died but he missed things we never thought about.

And all you want to do is curl up in a ball and shut the world out so you can grieve. But unfortunately day to day living you have to make decisions widowhood just makes it all the harder. Even 20 years on for me had to see if I could claim any of my husband's state pension turns out his NI contributions from 1974 until 2004 I am only entitled to 48p per week. As I get full state pension in my own right end of this month .

You are doing brilliantly as it hasn't been that long since your darling man died . Plus all the hassle from his children. And own family worries . It does get easier to cope but the grief like love never dies and even after all these years grieve can be overwhelming so I just have a good cry and ready to face the world again.

Time doesn't heal but gives you time to come to terms with being alone . And it's hard so never be hard on yourself. And self care is very important it's not selfish as the younger me thought but essential for your well being. 💐

Whiff. Thank you. x

To be honest, I can’t believe it will be a year on 23rd. At times, life has seemed like an eternity, in other ways the time has flown.

I’ll never stop missing him, but I suppose I’m adjusting. I have found the capacity to laugh again (which is always better than any medicine!).

Some days are still dreadful, others are better. Having my step-kids out of my life has been a bonus.👍

I didn’t ever want group therapy, counselling or drugs - I knew I had to just find a way.

On we have to press. 🙂

Whiff PS: We didn’t know DH was going to die, so no lists, because the last thing we expected was for him to die of Covid . He was vaccinated against every illness known to man - but still died of it🙄

Luckily, I’d always done a lot of the household admin, so I basically knew what I had to do, and I am pretty organised.

His pension company were a pain, I had to send reams of paperwork to get his old firm’s “survivors pension”.

The government Pensions Dept wrote to me saying they needed my marriage cert as they thought I was entitled to extra money because of his previous SERPS contributions or something. I sent it off, but as I was already getting the higher rate State Pension, in my own right, plus my private pensions, I didn’t expect anything.

But, they now give me an extra £50 per week - not sure why though.🤷‍♀️

But, it all helps, because I can’t get any means tested top-ups, and pay full rent etc, so it saves me dipping into our savings.

So, I’m better off than some - at least I haven’t got financial worries on top of the grief.

Still would give anything to have him back though.

Hope you’re feeling better x💐

I'm finding all these tales from widows who have grieved and sometimes felt discombobulated by all you have had to cope with, and yet have taken charge of your lives, moves, and so on, utterly inspiring. It cheers me to think that it's possible to cope despite being widowed. Thank you!

I agree Nmama they are inspiring aren't they.

Nnama, thank you, but you do learn very quickly to rely on yourself, it’s either that or become a burden to others and they have their own worries. Lots of people never marry and do everything alone and I’m so glad I had those years to remember. I was lucky not to have any financial worries as my husband had ensured I wouldn't, I had always worked anyway. The hardest thing is the emotional side, I still have a good cry on my own , I do think it’s really tough for people with children to raise and my heart goes out to them.
Yoga glad you had a good time but I would not have liked that journey though, as I find travelling and changing trains etc so tiring now.

Thinking about the first few months of my child's life reminded me of this: I had three months of maternity leave after he was born, and my husband was working. Then he had three months of paternity leave. One morning I was dressed and ready for work while he was still in his robe on the sofa and the baby was next to him. That was perfectly reasonable. I came home eight hours later and while he had fed and changed the baby during that time he was still on the sofa in his robe and the baby was next to him. The dishes were in the sink, the floor needed to be cleaned, the laundry hadn't gotten done. . . . He looked at me and said "I'm proof that post-partum depression is not just a problem for mothers." He was joking . . . sort of . . . but at that point he obviously found it challenging to be the lone adult in the house taking care of Cerberus (not my son's real name . . . but a mythological creature who had one eye always open). It felt like that to us--it seemed like that beloved, precious baby was awake and suffering from colic most of the time. Put him down and he cried. It was before the concept of "babywearing" and slings to carry babies were common, where we were. That might have made a difference.

I too am a widow and was estranged by son two years before my ďear husband died. It's five years estranged now. I am considerably older than all of you but l still am, and try to be very independent from my daughter.
I did probate by myself and sorted stuff out with the Land Registry. It kept me occupied.
For hospital visits l get taxis there and buses back.
I pay to have my grass cut fortnightly and have hedges cut twice a year.
My daughter and family live ten minutes away and she would immediately come in an emergency (I've had one) but l would never visit without an invite or asking her if it was okay.
I do very occasionally have to ask for help with Internet stuff or getting a new phone set up.
I really should move house but I've accumulated so much junk l don't think l can be bothered.
I just hope l can keep this independence up!
@ Ladys. You can do it, really you can. Your son and daughter-in law will be so pleased with you.

I have tried not to be “that needy person” - to the point that I’ve got DD and SIL for not contacting them if I need help.🙄

I try and do most things, but other than that, I try to sort out an alternative.

They have their lives, and they have busy lives, although both would be there in a crisis.

It’s a question of balance I suppose.🙂

Nmama

I'm finding all these tales from widows who have grieved and sometimes felt discombobulated by all you have had to cope with, and yet have taken charge of your lives, moves, and so on, utterly inspiring. It cheers me to think that it's possible to cope despite being widowed. Thank you!

To be fair, there’s not much choice. It is difficult, it’s brutal at times, but you do develop techniques to cope, and these will vary, person to person.

Even after a year, I still can’t sleep properly, my appetite is still shot to pieces, I can’t listen to music, in case it triggers me, and I can barely look at any photos.😗

But, I can do more than I could 6 months ago - so the rest will happen.

I suppose the thing is that this happens to one half of every couple, sooner or later, and we all have to find a way.

Not easy though. 🙂

Diamondlily, it's music that gets to me too. I play tunes on YouTube and l should not play certain ones. Morningtown Ride by the Seekers was on the radio and popular when my ES was born, l suddenly realised l was a parent when l heard that, makes me cry now. There's others that are for my husband, makes me sad. But there are lots that cheer me up.

When my mother was pregnant the first time her very self-important doctor, "the best ob/gyn in the city", as he was known, had all his pregnant patients who had routine checkups come at the same time early in the morning, and then he worked through the list of them. My mother went to the receptionist and said "Call me 15 minutes before he wants to see me" and went home. And eventually the receptionist called. I think she started a revolution among his pregnant patients, which was certainly called for. They knocked her out completely during labour. No natural childbirth for her! She'd wake up to my father holding a baby. Then she'd stay in the hospital for a week--and these were not complicated deliveries or c-sections. I know that somewhere I have a picture of a nurse they hired holding my older brother, and we were not wealthy--that was just considered what a new mother needed. I think that was only for the first of us. She chose to breastfeed us. All her female friends regarded her as barbaric because of that. My how times have changed . . .

Sorry, I'm realize that last post was neither support or advice, but thinking about all that new parents are faced with in the present and how different it can be from what their mothers may have experienced got me thinking about my mum recuperating in hospital for a week and the nurses taking the babies away at night so she could get a good night's sleep. Luxury, as Monty Python would say! It made me think--it's a lot more difficult today, especially for young mothers, especially if they have c-sections. And now babies have to be protected from illnesses like RSV and covid till they get their first shots, so visitors aren't always welcome (and consequently may not be able to come to help--so young parents are on their own). This is only my opinion, but I would not feel comfortable asking for time or favours from new parents. Others may, of course, feel very differently.

No, you’re fine - we all waffle on here about other things. Life’s not all about estrangements or family fall-outs.

I stayed in hospital for a week when I had babies, but I didn’t have a nurse to help when I came home. Couldn’t afford it!

It was just professional advice from the HV, if you asked, and general advice from other female relatives.

The HV advised me, as DD was a Summer baby, to go out with her for a daily walk, as fresh air would do both of us good. And, to establish a routine with feeding etc.

There must have been infections around then, but I don’t remember any advice around all that. Babies had the first vaccines at around 3 months, and that was it.

DD had 3 C-Sections and came home quickly, but I lived near her and used to go up daily (at her request) to help out so she could recover.

I don’t remember asking DD or SIL for any favours, but I suppose it depends on what the favour is and how many times you request help.🙂

Nmama this isn't a doom and gloom thread and it's not just estrangement we talk about . I talk about my sit fit class ,craft group and think I have even posted a picture of my cross stitch. Talk about my daughter and family and other family members,my garden ,my fight to get PIP and my health problems. Smiles talks about singing lessons and her learning opera and Mr S and his bowls and DIY skills, Yogin about Joey his little dog and on going battle for a parking space by her home . Plus everyone else talks about everyday life .

Smiles ,Yogin, Allsorts and other long timers have made this a safe haven for us and anyone who attacks us soon leave.

So talk about what you want. We are more than estranged parents we have a life to live and to live it to the full.

Nmama your post about us talking about widowhood was lovely thank you .

Yogin forgot to say glad you had a good time at Disneyland even though tiring . Did you have you photo taken with a Disney character? Bet Joey was glad to see you home . My daughter and family are in Nice at the moment back at the weekend. Having a lovely time and the boys are worn out so sleep but awake at 7 every morning. They go air b &b when abroad or in this country if it's for a week.

DiamondLily I knew it was the anniversary of your husband's death soon as it was before my birthday.

I did go to a bereavement group run by cancer charity this was in 2004 not long after my husband died. I didn't want to go as I don't believe in consulting as only a person going through what you are knows what it feels like. But both my children wanted me to go . They were 20 and 16 when their dad died. Total waste of time everyone lot older than me I was 45 next person was 68 year-old man the woman in their 70-80's. The woman who ran it did a 12 week course and was married. I stuck it out until the children left home for their sake. Luckily they never ask if it helps just did you have a good time which I did as they where nice people. I don't lie as I can't remember hence I repeat myself .

When my son dumped me my best friend is a family counsellor and when I told her she put on that voice told her to knock it off I didn't need counselling but my best friend. So don't talk about my son with her . She was widowed a year ago November but for all her training and over 20 years of experience hasn't helped her cope anymore than any of us.

I would give anything to have my husband back fit and healthy but I can't. The rage and anger I feel at him dieing gets me through everyday felt this way since he took his last breath. Some people say rage and anger is destructive but I find it helps me and we have to find out own way to cope with anything happening in our life.

I have been ill all my life in constant pain and fell at lot when my health got worse in 1988 and the limbs jerks started I was prepared to die first had it all worked out . But we all know life isn't fair and it was my fit healthy husband who got Cancer and died. But because of him I get though everyday as he loved me and I still love him and nothing that happened while we where together phased him concerning my health . My son accused me of hiding things about his dad in his email but he never wanted the children to know how bad things got for him or how he felt. I asked my daughter if she wanted to know she said no dad didn't want us to know and it was between me and him as she knew we where protecting them like we always had.

Have to end my ramble for now battery about to die .

Whiff - I did go to one bereavement group, run by the cemetery where I held the funeral. It was a mixed bunch, some had lost spouses, some children, some siblings etc. A couple had been attending this for years. They were all very nice people.

I just found (and this sounds selfish), that it was enough coping with my own grief, I couldn’t cope with other people’s as well.

I ended up giving one of them benefit advice, which sort of defeated the object.

But, as I waited outside for the cab, in the grounds of the lovely cemetery, I realised what I actually needed was “normal” conversations and some laughter back in my life.

When grief whacks me (and, and as you know, it can come out of nowhere), I grieve alone. Quietly.

The rest of the time, I’m light and happy with friends and neighbours. Fake it until you make it perhaps lol.

My closest friend phoned me yesterday. The call lasted 2 and a half hours 😳. She was widowed 20 years ago, and we have been friends/supports for each other for nearly 50 years.

But, the call was full of laughter, and I felt better for it.🙂

Hope you’ve recovered from your Shingles now.💐

Morning all

Sad to hear how bereavement has affected quite a few of you and I think you do the right thing DL in just trying to get through it and have some light hearted conversations & even a little laughter at times. Well done to you all

Yes, the trip to Disney was hard, myself & my DD each brought large suitcases, not thinking about all the stairs in the stations & the long walk between stations to catch the next train.

The best part of the holiday was being with all the family, all happy and enjoying our time there. The worst was on 'Space mountain' my 93yrs f.i.l, my little 8yrs GD and all in-between went on and it took me, my f.i.l & sis.i.l half an hour to recover afterwards so be warned if you go to Disney!

My little dog Joey didn't fare well, my son was home for the first 2 days, then I got a friend to take Joey out to the park, he took him for 4hours and would have kept him longer [did say he'd keep him at his for my hols] if he'd known my son didn't get back till nearly 10pm and left by 5.30/6am again! But we didn't know he would be that late. Then to be told Joey wouldn't sleep with my son [I had said to him sleep in my bed if you want, but he didn't] So Joey slept the first night in the hall way and thereafter on my/our bed poor Joey

Things to do with Disney are always exhausting, and usually, expensive.😳

DH and I used to take the GCs to Disney on Ice, at Christmas….we always came back skint and shattered lol

Hope your dog has recovered. 🙂

Thank you all for your support. Allsorts what you said about not seeing your child again but they always being your heart resonated with me.

Morning everyone,

Oh no, not 'Space Mountain' Yogin. We went on that the first time we went to Florida early 90's I think and I hated every minute of it. I wasn't overly keen TBH but seeing children younger than our boys queuing to go on, I tired to convince myself that it couldn't be that bad, but it was.

Lost count of the number of times we visited Disney in Florida but I never went on that again. The last time Mr. S. did, he said it had been improved but I'd still hate it.

No doubt you're spoiling little Joey now you're back. They can make us feel very guilty can't they.

You need I think a mix with support groups DL otherwise the sheer weight of the grief and pain of others, combined with your own can become over whelming, so I can understand why the bereavement group wasn't for you.

I found that with a closed support group for estranged parents. It was like going round and round in ever decreasing circles, and it felt as if there was no light at the end of the tunnel and there never would be.

That's why I think this thread has been running for so long because as you say Whiff, it's not just doom and gloom and I do believe that for us posting here and maybe for those who read but never post, knowing that there's a life to be led despite being estranged, is a positive thing.