The next thread for friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life

@Bridie22 I’m finding that grief is as strong now as it was a year ago if not stronger. I can’t see a point in time where I will move forward from the death of my partner. It’s very intense but very different from the feelings I’ve described regarding my son’s apparent change in personality. We are not yet estranged, I’m trying to rescue the situation, but I understand the concept of grieving something which is still living . So disenfranchised bereavement is making sense here . For me , as I am experiencing both at the same time , the feelings are merging into one . I am not sure if personally I see much hope at all but I will be positive. xxx

I have been heavily supporting someone for the last 4 years who has, for very valid reasons (serious financial abuse and coercive control), chosen to estrange from her daughter.

Disenfranchised grief is a perfect description of what she is going through ... grieving for the daughter she thought she had who is still living. Still a sense of disbelief at the perceived change in that person as well as in herself for not realising what was happening.

Yes Madgran77, a sense of disbelief is in with emotions I feel...Good description.

@madgran and @Bridie yes very good description. I think the important part is the fact that you don’t really notice change happening in the person until it’s too late . That’s my experience anyway- my son has changed and I didn’t notice this change creeping up on me xx

Bridie22

This may sound like a dreadful comment but I hope you understand my reasoning
When a person we loved or were close to dies, we grieve and eventually move forward, however when a loved one estranged us, especially without any communication, we grieve constantly...as you say Smileless, there is always hope.
However if they were dead we could move forward perhaps, without the constant hope in your head of maybes.

Conversely, it can be the sheer powerlessness of actual bereavement that brings the pain.

Other issues, including estrangement, always hold that strand of hope that, maybe, things could change.

I’ve had real challenges through life - but I’ve always found a way to change it/live with it/deal with it.

If someone, especially your spouse, dies, then there is no hope. No one has found a way to bring back the dead.

We don’t all move on, and many of us don’t want to move on anyway - I certainly don’t want a “second best” replacement.🙄

I’d no more than do that than someone else would look for replacement children.😗

Yes, both bring grief, in different ways, but they are totally different.

There is nothing I can do to change my loss - no point in moving to get away because there’s no reason to.

I have to do what (I would guess), most widows have to do - drag myself through the days, to drag myself through the nights. But, as I know that misery only likes its own company, I play the part of cheerful me with family and friends.

There’s another poster on here that lost her husband a long time ago, and then lost her son with estrangement. As she often points out, losing her husband broke her worse than her son estranging her.

There’s no comparison. They are equal in some ways, but not in others.

I agree DL the " same but different".
I lost my partner many years ago, although I still grieve it isn't as intense as it was , as I have had to just get on with life, the grief with estrangement is daily/ constant, as much as I try to go forward it holds me back.

I do understand your comment Bridie and don't think it sounds dreadful, what it does is explain why the grief experienced through estrangement can be disenfranchised.

How can someone experience the grief of losing a loved one, a child while that child still lives? Perhaps not dissimilar to the sense of grief and loss when a loved one develops alzheimer's or dementia.

In the last year of his life, my stepfather was lost to us because he didn't know who we were. We would visit and see him but apart from his physical presence, everything else about him, that made him the man we loved had gone.

As you say Ladysu we've not just lost their physical presence in our lives but the person they used to be and with that is what Madgran's put so well "a sense of disbelief at the perceived change in that person as well as in (ourselves) for not realising what was happening" and/or as you've said Ladysu not noticing the changes, until it's too late.

I agree DL, no comparisons which is perhaps why when it comes to estrangement the grief is described as disenfranchised and the bereavement as living.

Thanks Smileless - though I am not estranged now, it was touch and go, on more than one occasion, and I found solace on this forum. I just like to say , there’s always hope. For all those who are hurting, here are some

I suppose disenfranchised grief also describes the lack of empathy or understanding of estrangement grief by people, if they haven't experienced it.
Thanks crazyH.

Yes it does Bridie As I posted earlier, grief due to an estrangement doesn't always fit in with the wider society's attitude about dealing with death and loss.

It's always good to be reminded by those who've benefited that they did crazy and even better that everything worked out for them eventually.

Your continued support and good wishes are always appreciated; thank you.

Smileless2012

I do understand your comment Bridie and don't think it sounds dreadful, what it does is explain why the grief experienced through estrangement can be disenfranchised.

How can someone experience the grief of losing a loved one, a child while that child still lives? Perhaps not dissimilar to the sense of grief and loss when a loved one develops alzheimer's or dementia.

In the last year of his life, my stepfather was lost to us because he didn't know who we were. We would visit and see him but apart from his physical presence, everything else about him, that made him the man we loved had gone.

As you say Ladysu we've not just lost their physical presence in our lives but the person they used to be and with that is what Madgran's put so well "a sense of disbelief at the perceived change in that person as well as in (ourselves) for not realising what was happening" and/or as you've said Ladysu not noticing the changes, until it's too late.

I agree DL, no comparisons which is perhaps why when it comes to estrangement the grief is described as disenfranchised and the bereavement as living.

Yes, my mother contracted Alzheimer’s and my dad died alone in a nursing home with vascular dementia, during the first Covid outbreak.

I “lost” both of them, especially my Dad, who I was so close to, long before their bodies shut down. Incredibly painful.

Luckily, I’ve never “lost” my child. I’ve lost a grandchild (death), and I’ve lost my step-family and my brother in the last year through estrangement. I will probably never see my first GGC again.(long story).

I do understand the pain of all of them, but nothing has poleaxed me quite as much as losing DH.

I found the suggestion that we all just grieve and move on to be insensitive…but, bereavement makes you touchy, so it could be me just finding it that way.

I am sorry DL, I certainly didn't mean to be insensitive to your recent loss, I was ( clumsily) trying to express that my grief at losing my husband is still there but not as intense daily.
I have never replaced him or would never, his death was very traumatic and I never want to feel that hurt again.
Again I'm sorry if I have unintentionally upset you.

Bridie22

I am sorry DL, I certainly didn't mean to be insensitive to your recent loss, I was ( clumsily) trying to express that my grief at losing my husband is still there but not as intense daily.
I have never replaced him or would never, his death was very traumatic and I never want to feel that hurt again.
Again I'm sorry if I have unintentionally upset you.

That’s fine. It’s just near to my wedding anniversary, and I’m probably over stressed.

I’m still finding the loss to be intense.🙂

DL x

As you all know my husband died 20 years ago aged 47 I was 45. When I had to tell him to stop struggling as he couldn't breath and that we would be ok. But there is never in my experience every been a day it's been ok . The moment my husband took his last breath half of me died and I was no longer whole . The only person in the whole world who knew the real me and me him broken my heart with his death . Yes I have learnt to cope with the grief but I am still broken as the years go by I am more broken. He has missed so much of life . I was born disabled with a hole in my heart . I was 16 when we went out he was 18 . He knew from the start I was in constant pain and fell at lot. But he didn't care he wanted me. He told me he loved me a month before I realised I loved him.

His parents where vile they looked after him but didn't give him the love and attention he needed and wanted . He got that from my extended family. His parents did everything they could to make me feel unwanted . My father in law told me I was defective.

I think he thought by saying that we wouldn't marry but we did and had the wedding we wanted . Which was the sort of wedding my family had we catered for ourselves his parents went spare. And tried to bribe us not to do that .

His parents had money but they didn't lavish my husband with it . He only had want he earned first from his paper round when he was 13 . Then when he worked full time from 17.

I wasn't brought with money but rich with love and attention. Given to my brother and me by our parents and extended family.

My husband was fit and healthy and got cancer and we knew he wouldn't live 5 years he lived 3. He died in agony from 6 tumours.

The grief from the death of the other half of yourself is like no other pain . It's never goes away and is my constant companion. But that grief gets me through everyday . My husband was very wise he knew what I needed to survive without him and that was promises he wanted me to keep and I have kept everyone to this day.

He wanted me to live the best life I can . I do know but only since moving here in 2019. The children left home in 2006 like I wanted as they had their own lives to live. But I couldn't live my own life as I had both parents and mother in law to look after. And it cost me healthwise.

When my limb jerks started in 1988 our daughter was 4 and son 6 months my darling man just said we alter our way of life to suit you . Our children never suffered or missed out on anything because of me . I was a hands on mom only thing I didn't do when our son was a baby was carry him up and down the stairs and I couldn't leave the house on my own.. So we had a normal family life just I went in a wheelchair as my husband would never leave me in the car if we needed to walk long distances. Short distance I used a stick my walking was terrible .

Yes, Whiff- I think you said what I was trying to (badly).

‘I told him to stop struggling as he couldn't breath and that we would be ok. But there is never in my experience ever been a day it's been ok . The moment my husband took his last breath half of me died and I was no longer whole . The only person in the whole world who knew the real me and me him broken my heart with his death . Yes I have learnt to cope with the grief but I am still broken as the years go by I am more broken.”

Both estrangement and actual bereavement bring stress, but only one can ever change.🙂

That’s fine. It’s just near to my wedding anniversary, and I’m probably over stressed. I’m still finding the loss to be intense.

DiamondLily a difficult time for you

Posted that so as not to lose it.

I never hurt my children in anyway and they grew up with an understanding of disabilities so did their friends. They never lacked for live and attention.

My grandsons have grown up with a disabled nannie . But my son and daughter in law never trusted me alone in the room by myself and the boys. My son knew I was no danger to them and the boys thought nannies funny arms and legs and copied me .
I was never allowed to push the bugger with their eldest in after I went into a display cabinet and my daughter in law took it off me.

In contrast I did that with my daughter's eldest and she just said I am always doing that. I had the limb jerks and seizures until March 2020 when I started a tablet which stopped them. But I did every with my daughter's eldest fed ,changed nappies bathed him , played with and even baby sat him while they went out. All things my son and daughter in law never allowed me to do.

My daughter said you never hurt me or my brother why wouldn't I trust you with my son.. Since her youngest has been born they have trusted me the same as with there eldest. He was born when I was living here so he is the only one of my grandsons I have seen grow from 4 days old.

For all the love and joy they bring to my life my grief for my husband hasn't lessoned one but in fact he was looking forward to being a grandad.

The grief I feel over my son's estrangement is nothing compared to my constant grief for my husband.

But there are others griefs . Grief for deaths of parents and other family and friends. Grief for the death of a much loved pet. The grief you feel over ill health and loss of mobility.

All those are valid griefs which we feel .

Some will disagree with me . But to be honest I don't care . This is my life and grief for my husband. He never lived long enough for my rare hereditary neurological condition to be found. When I had the diagnosis he was the first one I wanted to tell as without him I could do all the things I do. I told my daughter and she was so happy finally I had answers. I text my son to tell him I was sending a letter and a copy of my diagnosis and the letter told him how to get tested if he wanted. I never heard a thing.

But it turns out my parents where carriers for this mutant gene and they had a 50/50 chance of having a child with the full genetic mutation. I have it so I am not a carrier so it's not been past on to my children . My brother is fine he can't be a carrier because of the genetic mutant strain I have doesn't work like that.

There are widows here and also estrangement from adult children and grandchildren. The pain from being widowed from a husband or partner far out ways any grief over what our children have done.

This is just my experience.

I don't think it's a matter of agreeing or disagreeing Whiff.

We all speak from our own experiences and it's not anyone's place to tell anyone else whether their experience is right or wrong, and I don't believe it was anyone's intention to do so.

Even if we've experienced the same thing, we wont necessarily experience it the same way.

You are a strong lady Whiff, we all feel emotions differently, you are always supportive, take care.

@crazyH I seem to be in the same situation as you - teetering on the edge of possible estrangement but not entirely there yet . Your comment does give me hope , despite this being a really difficult time x

@Whiff @DiamondLily and Bridie - I have to agree that losing your one half of you that makes you whole , hurts so much more than the loss of a child ( or possible loss) through estrangement. Diamond - I’m sorry you are feeling your loss more as it approaches your anniversary and yes , I do think grief makes us touchy. It’s changed me as a person.
Whiff you are so strong - I really admire you and the way you talk about the early days with your husband is so romantic.
Bridie - I’m sorry you experienced a traumatic time when you lost your husband. I , too , still feel so much trauma from the sudden and totally unexpected death of my partner. All of our losses are different, but we suffer equally. Sending love to you all

@Smiles you are right when you say Alzheimer’s disease is a living bereavement. My mum was struck down by this vile condition when she was 64 and she died aged 79 . As a family we nursed mum through her 15 year struggle and we were fortunate to be able to keep her at home - it was incredibly difficult, as within 3 years she completely lost all speech and mobility. Seeing this type of stuffering also changes you as a person. I’m sure you felt the same sense of loss of the person with your father in law . I know we lost mum so many years before she died , it was pitiful and gruelling to witness .

Yes it was very hard Ladysu. He was my stepdad but I loved him like a father. "pitiful and gruelling to witness" sums it up perfectly.

@Smile sorry I made a mistake and said father in law . Meant to say stepdad xxx