The next thread for friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life

No worries Ladysu.

Dementia and Alzheimer's is truly a living grief like Smiles says . The person you love dies but their body lives on. I have never feared dieing and always thought I would die first. But I don't want to get dementia or Alzheimer's. I won't put my daughter through what I went through with my mom .. So have decided long time again on a course of action if I do get either. I never want my daughter to suffer seeing what happens if I turned out like my mom.

My mom died 4 months before her body and my mom who had never laid a hand on became violent but someone on a thread called it abuse it wasn't it was FEAR. The person with dementia or Alzheimer's doesn't know who they are ,where or who you are. When I could I used to just wrap the duvet round my mom and hold her so she didn't hurt herself or me. I had a long bed bar on the bed so mom didn't fall out but padded it with pillows so she didn't knock herself. One day she moved them and bashed her head on the bar and told me she was going to tell people I hit her. She has a large lump and bruise on her forehead. I put the pillows back bathed her bruise and put cream on. My mom only said bloody until the dementia took hold . I didn't know she knew some of the words that came out of her mouth. But I couldn't put my mom into a home . But I know I should have but it wasn't in me to do it.

My brother couldn't cope with mom's dementia and the only time I had to myself was 4 days the Christmas before she died when I came up here to stay with my daughter and family and see my son and family this was 2016. He said he didn't know how I coped as they couldn't with 2 of them looking after her. But mom was only violent towards me because I was with her 24/7. My brother only saw mom for 30 mins or less a week as he couldn't stand seeing her not knowing who he was . In every other aspect of my life my brother has always been their especially after my husband died . And I understand why he couldn't cope with seeing mom not being mom . But I did tell him what a shit he was after she died and he admitted he should have helped me.

All the things I have done in my life is because of love . Even though I hated my mother in law for 40 years. I looked after her because of my love for my husband and she was still my mother in law and the children's nan.

I am no different to anyone here we all do what we do for love and we all have our own moral code. And at the end of the day we have to live with ourselves.

I always thought my son was like his dad and he was for 32 years. But sadly he and my daughter in law have turned into my in laws. Only different is I don't hate them.

I can understand children estranging parents if there is physical and verbal abuse on a daily basis. They have to protect themselves and other family .

What I will never understand why children decide one day parents are disposable. And if the parents are so awful why is it only one child who in my case dumps me but the other child cherishes me. Both children brought up the same ,both couples treated equally. I have always followed their rules concerning my grandsons never interfered in their lives or put demands on them . I am very independent. Yes both my children have taken me to A&E when my health problems got worse but mainly my daughter. But when I finally knew what's wrong with my heart and neurological condition both things I was born with. My son decided I was vindictive and manipulative and disposable.

People have said we know why our children estrange us but I don't know why but decided last year to let him go and not hold on to any hope I will ever see him again . And have been happier since making that decision. It's an awful thing when you have to protect yourself against your own child. I will always love my son but the son I knew not who he is now . He is a stranger . I will never forgive or forget what he or my daughter in law have written about me and any trust I had in him is destroyed beyond repair. But will always love my grandsons whether I will ever see them or not.

I made this decision for my own peace of mind and I will not live with what ifs . I can't as I would be betraying a promise I made to my husband and that's to live the best life I can. And since moving here I do . I live and no longer just exist.

And yes I know I have said all this before so no point anyone pointing out I ramble on about the same things. I know I do but that's me in real life. But I now know the reason why I do it it's all part of my HPX . I am lucky enough to have found a group who have it and do the same thing . And willing to answer all my questions and share their experience of living with it or having children with it.

People come to this thread for help , support,advice if they want it , understanding and most importantly of all friendship things I have found . People do not need judgement and being told they know why their child had estranged them. Nor do they need telling of course you know why your child has done it. I don't and I don't care if you believe me or not.

The people who count on this thread do . And that's what has got me through the years. 💐to you all.

Your ramblings are always lovely to read Whiff, you make a good point today...like you I have one estranged child and one child who is close and caring, both brought up in the same environment and both loved and treated the same.
Maybe one day I will know the answer, until then I will keep hoping to reconnect.

@Whiff and @Bridie maybe the reason why I try so hard to keep this going with my son is because he’s an only child . I have invested every scrap of love into raising him . Yes it’s fair to say losing my partner has broken me but as time is going on the thought of losing my son is starting to break me too . I’m in a terrible panic . Feeling really unwell again this morning been awake for hours . Desperately trying to find something out off his mate now who saw him yesterday but I think it’s probably too early for him to respond to me just yet . Life’s so awful . Very lonely and I have simply done my best . I’ve backed right off to give my son the space he needs but this in turn seems to be giving him the perfect reason ( excuse) not to call me or message me . I’m feeling very sad today xxx

Sorry you are so sad today, I often find when emotions are overwhelming me I take myself out for a walk to give my brain a distraction for awhile, are you able to do that?

@Bridie thank you . I have to go out soon to sort something out for the upcoming move so no time for a walk ! I’m overwhelmed by bad feelings today hopefully tomorrow will be better xxx

Morning everyone.

For me, two things really stood out from your post Whiff. "And at the end of the day we have to live with ourselves" and "I made this decision for my own peace of mind and I wont live with what ifs" in relation to not holding onto hope, and letting your son go.

Even after more than 11 years, when I read something like this it gives me strength and reinforces that for us, the decision we took to let our ES go and accept that for us there is no hope was, is and will always be the right one.

Living with ourselves for us, is knowing that because we're human and therefore did make mistakes as all parents do and will do, we did nothing to deserve this. There is no guilt of shame, just the never ending sadness.

It must be so much harder to fear being estranged by the only child you have Ladysu and coupled with the loss of your other half is bound to bring about periods of panic .

Although understandable, I would be careful about contacting any of your son's friends for information. It's inevitable he'll find out and as he's said he needs space, he's not going to like you doing so.

Smiles is right Ladysusiei don't ask your son's friends anything he will accuse you of spying on him.

Smiles you and everyone welcomed and helped me we I was confused ,hurt and lost. Yes parents make mistakes my own did. And I could write a long list of what my son and daughter in law did and said wrong in regard to their 2 eldest but that would be cruel and hurtful. And thats not me. I never understand why people deliberately go out of their way to hurt others . I suppose they should be pitied if that is all they have in their lives a need to hurt others.

Ladysusiei hope that all goes well about you move.

Bridie I ramble on everywhere. 😂.

Craft group this afternoon . So that's an afternoon of tea, biscuits chatting and laughter plus crafting. Nothing better on a very rainy day.

Hard decision to make Smileless but if it works for you then it's right, my decisions move daily! I do wish I could resign myself to letting go.

It's not for everyone Bridie and I think our innate personality has a bearing on it as well as previous life experiences.

I didn't have the happiest of childhood's, affected by the treatment of adults over which I had no control. I had no control when it came to our son's estrangement of us so the only thing I could control was to what extent I'd allow him to hurt me.

For me, hoping that he'd come back was just too painful so the only way I could lessen that pain initially, was to accept that he never would and as time went on to realise that for me, I'm safer if he didn't.

So hard question feel free not to answer, but should your son turn up at your home wishing to have a conversation could you turn him away?

I think I could Bridie which is why I hope he never does because I know that's a possibility. I wouldn't want to turn him away, I wouldn't want to hurt him and TBH the thought of him ever turning up terrifies me.

Two days after my mum died he sent an email. When Mr. S. saw it and told me I totally freaked out, had the mother of all panic attacks and insisted that he read it in case it contained anything hurtful.

He very rarely does so but if our DS just says his brother's name, that fear is instantaneous.

I don't think people in general understand how these estrangement can affect every corner of our lives, from a simple name spoken, to worry, to panic and countless other emotions.

. I was estranged 5 years ago. But there is a difference to what posters on here experience.
For example Some years, l send ES an email wishing him a happy birthday, he will reply with a nice very short message hoping l am well.
But if l reply to that, l am cut off and can't hear anything for years again. I actually got a Christmas card one year - but not last year ...
With hindsight, l should have seen estrangement coming, but it had never been in my experience.
I think, if his partner was out of the picture he might reconnect.
I'm not sure how l would feel then, trust has gone.

All our experience is so different isn’t it . I’m not suggesting that if you have more than one child it’s somehow easier but I do feel terribly shortchanged because I have an only child . I have literally put everything into raising him and he’s never had to share - now he doesn’t seem to want me at all . It’s a good job I been speaking with his mate ( he is not saying anything about me ) because I’ve found out my DIL is in hospital. Obviously worried about her now , it’s her blood pressure. I’ve been in touch with my son asking something innocent then slipping in oh how’s………t , and he replied to me . Didn’t say she’s still in though but he’s blowing hot and cold at the moment. He did answer me really nicely and seemed happy I’d asked after his wife’s wellbeing. Gosh this is all so difficult, maybe all will be well when the baby is here . Turns out she’s been having mental health support right through her pregnancy- see I didn’t know this which maybe explains a lot . Maybe this is why she has been so over sensitive, and why my son has been so stressed . I’ll continue giving him space and see how we get on . Hopefully will see him on the weekend if my DIL is well xx

That must be so difficult Hilltop. You must feel as if you're living your life in a parental 'no man's land', not totally estranged, but not actually in a mother/son relationship either .

We've at times wondered if our ES was no longer with his wife if he would reconnect but realistically, how would that make us feel? As you say the trust has gone or at the very least has been badly damaged.

Have you managed to a certain extent to come to terms with this very intermittent contact by never expecting to hear from him, or does not hearing from him hurt and upset you as much as it always has? I was thinking in terms of getting a Christmas card one year, but not last year.

I'm sorry that your d.i.l's. in hospital because of her blood pressure Ladysu and that she's been having mental health support too. This goes a long way in explaining why you've noticed how stressed he is.

I think you're right Bridie, it's so much more than not being a part of your child's and when they have children, your GC's lives.

Smileless, l feel estranged, l have no idea what's going on in his life and he has no idea what l am doing. I do not know where he lives now.
I was very hurt and upset when the estrangement happened. They said awful things, said he'd had a lovely childhood but that l had changed recently.

I just accept it now as it is and l don't get upset. I don't know when/if I'll hear anything again. He hasn't removed his email address (yet) so l suppose he wants to keep a channel open.
I sort of feel sorry for him, he has cut himself off from all his family and l think he must miss them.

You have been estranged for eleven years, that's a long time, I'm not sure how l would feel after such a long time.
It has rained all day here!

@Smiles well yes it explains a lot actually. I was not aware my DIL was having this support, which does explain the strange behaviour. I really hope we can go back to being normal with each other in the future. I totally understand my son’s stress - not this excuses his behaviour sometimes mind - but it does explain why his wife doesn’t want to see me . Maybe this would just be too much ? I am hurt that important factors haven’t been talked about at all , because a bit of explanation would have saved so much heartache on all sides I think . I will always forgive them mind , even though I feel hurt . I do understand that my DIL is the priority here kind and not me . I just wish my son trusted me enough to explain this to me ! Never mind - all I’m hoping is that the pregnancy goes as best it can for the next month and we will see what happens after that xxx

I remember when I had my first DD, I had PNA and PND, I didn't want anyone really knowing as I felt like people would think I couldn't cope or I was a bad mom, maybe she's feeling a bit of the same?

Now you know, even if you're not supposed too, you've got a bit of explanation. Blood pressure problems could mean a lot of things in late pregnancy, they must be both stressed.

Tread lightly, you might not of done things the way they have, but they've done what's best for them.

@Hilltop your situation sounds a bit like mine . I had sporadic contact with my son for a while now I see him once a week. Once his wife has the baby , he’s off for a month so I might not see him . I don’t push him at present. I’ve learned that’s the worse I can do . I’m currently under threat of not seeing the child , but I’m keeping my mind open in view of finding out his wife has had mental health support through her pregnancy. This has obviously changed the complexion of things . My son has been incredibly stressed and horrible, his wife doesn’t want to see me and has been very nasty to me BUT if things change when the baby is born I will never ever mention this awfulness. I will be so grateful for the chance to build new memories with a renewed family. Obviously things might continue like this - then I really don’t know what I will feel. Gutted that things have gone wrong I suppose. I remain hopeful that’s all I can be . I’m struggling immensely with all this like everyone else on here xxx

@March I don’t think anyone should worry about what others think if you have mental illness- it doesn’t make you a bad mum . I did realise earlier on the my DIL was having some support for anxiety but she totally minimised the effect it was having on her . I feel dreadful for both her and my son and I’d just love to wrap them up in a big Cwtch and tell them everything will be fine - I really hope I get the chance to tell my DIL how much I love her and I admire her strength for just getting through her pregnancy. I’m sorry you suffered too , March . Although I have significant mental health issues now I didn’t in pregnancy nor afterwards. He was about 5 when I became unwell . I don’t think it would make you a bad mum , but I totally understand how some people misunderstand mental illness and think it’s a personal failing .

@March meant to add yes I will tread lightly because I know how difficult this time is for both of them.
I suffered with very high bp during most of my pregnancy and was forced to stay in hospital for a month near the end , so they could sign me off work . My employer was not sympathetic at all to my situation and high bp can be so dangerous when you’re pregnant.

Hilltop my son also cut off all our side of the family. My daughter had washed her hands of him years ago . We never mention him . He and my son in law have the same first name and couple of years ago I mentioned his name and my grandson thought I ment his dad. So it's easier not to talk about him at all. When I talk about what my daughter did as a child even if it was something she did with her brother I just don't mention him.

I had to let go off any hope of seeing him again for me. Like he is no longer the son I knew I am no longer the mom he knew. My daughter says how much I have changed and have more confidence and happier since I moved her. She loves the fact I live closer. But I am very independent and have my own life.

We all have to decide when to let go of hope . Everyone takes their own time. But I decided last year I had enough and life is to short. Once I make a decision I stick to it as it's the only way my life works.

On a lighter side. Yesterday on the way back from craft group it was freezing cold. So on the bus I put my hood up as it's fur lined and tied it round my face . Walking home 3 boys where coming towards from the primary school and there was a large puddle so I waited for the boys to pass. The oldest one said let the old lady go first . I thanked them. Once I got home I looked at myself in the mirror and I did look like a cold old lady just my face and glasses showing. Made me laugh. I told my daughter she said she remembered nan ( my mom ) saying someone was elderly they where younger than her. My mom always said older never old.

@Whiff that’s so funny what you say about being an old lady . People tell me I don’t look my age but I’m sure they need specsavers because lately what with being so sleep deprived and not eating enough , I’m looking distinctly haggared. I’m not using make up since my partner died , I don’t see the point !! So one day I fully expect to wake up and think who is that old lady - then I’ll realise it’s me staring back at myself in the mirror. The AS certainly giving me sleepless nights , in addition to worries about an impending move it certainly has given me a lot to think about in the twilight hours .

Ladysusiei before I moved here I hardly slept . Especially after my husband died. I was on call 24/7 with my parents and mother in law. I dreaded what the next phone call would bring. I existed I didn't have a life.

Moving here the first night I slept only waking to go too the loo and went back straight to sleep. My health was getting worse but I was still able to sleep at night.

Even my son's estrangement didn't stop me sleeping. I suppose it should have but even though hurting losing my son and grandsons . I was finally living my life to the full . I no longer existed.

I was finally getting the medical care I needed and having my diagnosis's has made a big difference to my life. I am no longer weird and can talk to others with the same conditions and my life makes sense.

Moving here I lost one half of my family but get to see the other half regularly. I have true friends that we know we can depend on eachother who I see every week . Never had that before.

My life revolved round my husband and family . When my husband died I existed and didn't live.

If I hadn't moved to here I hate to think what my life would have been like. That's why I never want to go back to the area I lived in ever again. That part of my life is over.

This is where I belong my happy place . I hope you find your happy place .