The next thread for friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life

@Whiff I’m sure in time I will find my happy place. I think a lot of my issues are like you’ve said - losing my partner. It’s in my head and I need to change my way of living don’t I . He will always be with me in my heart and in my memory but I have to make efforts to find some peace within myself.
When I move it will be a complete fresh start ( again) . I need to make this one work for me . I’m not sleeping because I lie awake worrying. These days I’m worrying a lot about my son and what’s happening. I suppose as I can’t change how he behaves I should be making my own life as best as I possibly can rather than letting him dominate my thoughts all the time .
I know what you mean about waiting for the next phone call when you’re caring for someone- it was like this for the last few years of my mother’s life . We were constantly on edge because my dad would often ring for support in the evening or at night often after we’d been there during the day . Life is so difficult caring for someone with Alzheimer’s it’s so unpredictable. Xx

Morning all, lovely sunny day but cold!

Ladysu I was thinking of you last night, about your son not allowing a hug. A hug is a normal thing to do with those close to you, I do it with all my family, and friends if I haven't seen them for a while. My mum was kept in hospital for bed rest when she was having me due to HB. Good luck this w/e with your son and good luck with your move.

Birdie it took me 6yrs to come to terms with my estrangement, just had to draw a line under it and move on, felt tons better for doing it. In Oct '22 I saw my estD for a few hours, she actually came to my house. I thought we were moving on and I'd see my GC again for the first time in 9yrs [then], but sadly not to be, she went back to her H. We txt a few times after but then it stopped and back to zero contact again. So since then, I have totally given up all hope of a reconciliation, didn't realise before this that I still held up hope.

Whiff I had a similar thing when the children next door had a little friend in to play, their ball came over and as I walked up the garden path the little boy called old lady, can we have our ball back I replied there isn't an old lady living here

Hilltop so hard isn't

Smiles I think with all of us estranged here, if our AC were no longer with their H/W we would, after a while, see our est.AC again.

Still another page to read but coffee & shower first....

Ladysu What does your dad think about all this?

Morning everyone. A lovely cold and frosty morning here which is much better than milder, we and grey weather.

It does seem to be most common for those who estrange, to cut off all contact with everyone from that side of the family Hilltop. We don't know how much contact DS has with his brother, the contact has always been quite sporadic and one sided as our DS is the one who tends to get in touch.

We suspect that were he not living in Aus. he'd have been cut out too, but being so far away is not perceived to be a threat.

Oh Whiff seeing that you'd been referred too as an old lady did make me and not just because of how he described you, but also because he was being polite and considerate.

It's good that you have your 'happy place' Whiff, our home and holiday lodge are my safe places. We seldom go anywhere else for any length of time. Last year when we went to an Air B&B was the first time since 2020 that we'd stayed away from home, and I felt quite anxious the day we went, but am so pleased we did.

It's a beautiful place, so much so that we're going for a week at the end of June, and we're going to stay with my cousin down south in September and will stay with my best friend for 3 nights in Portsmouth, before coming home.

I need to start thinking of my safe spaces as happy places as I can see that seeing them as somewhere where I am safe, created a degree of anxiety which is far from healthy.

There's as lot to be said for a fresh start that's created by moving into a new home Ladysu and I hope you'll find it the positive experience we have.

It may take time to feel settled, so don't be disappointed if you struggle a little in the beginning. It's also harder when you're doing this on your own, especially without a partner and a supportive adult child, but hopefully when the baby is born things will settle down.

I suppose a I can't change how he behaves I should be making my own life as best as I possibly can rather than letting him dominate my thoughts all the time absolutely Ladysu. It isn't easy as we can all attest too, it takes time but it is doable.

Morning Yogin, yes I think you're right. At the very least it would be a distinct possibility wouldn't it, but would probably be fraught with the fear that if they ever got back together again we could once more find ourselves estranged.

I wonder if EP's can ever be free of fear and/or pain. If there is reconciliation, will there always be a fear of being estranged again, however slight can it ever go away completely? Regardless of how many years it's been, the pain of estrangement can lessen over time, but I don't think we will ever be totally free of it.

Yoginimeisje

Morning all, lovely sunny day but cold!

Ladysu I was thinking of you last night, about your son not allowing a hug. A hug is a normal thing to do with those close to you, I do it with all my family, and friends if I haven't seen them for a while. My mum was kept in hospital for bed rest when she was having me due to HB. Good luck this w/e with your son and good luck with your move.

Birdie it took me 6yrs to come to terms with my estrangement, just had to draw a line under it and move on, felt tons better for doing it. In Oct '22 I saw my estD for a few hours, she actually came to my house. I thought we were moving on and I'd see my GC again for the first time in 9yrs [then], but sadly not to be, she went back to her H. We txt a few times after but then it stopped and back to zero contact again. So since then, I have totally given up all hope of a reconciliation, didn't realise before this that I still held up hope.

Whiff I had a similar thing when the children next door had a little friend in to play, their ball came over and as I walked up the garden path the little boy called old lady, can we have our ball back I replied there isn't an old lady living here

Hilltop so hard isn't

Smiles I think with all of us estranged here, if our AC were no longer with their H/W we would, after a while, see our est.AC again.

Still another page to read but coffee & shower first....

@Yogin firstly my dad is so disappointed in my son’s behaviour because it impacts on him too . Since I’ve stopped seeing my boy other than once a week , he’s stopped helping with anything. We used to combine resources so my dad’s upset . Also , dad thinks the decision not to allow me access to my grandson is harsh and disproportionate. Yes , my son was not happy about how I dealt with finding out about the pregnancy etc , but his reaction is completely OTT . In fact it’s an excuse. Dads chose not to see his only great grandson in solidarity with me and so has my sister and BIL. So a family rift I suppose. There is absolutely no valid reason for keeping me and my grandson apart other than the fact my son says “ he has decided “ . Very cruel both to my family and his son . He is being taught that people don’t matter and can be disposed of when the fancy takes you . It’s a terrible situation and I won’t believe it until it happens, but I think it will . He’s very stubborn and has to be right about everything, is completely intractable, and sees forgiveness as backing down . There’s no hope really- he’s a disgrace. I will continue seeing him , but there’s no way I can really trust him .
The hugs . Well where do I start . His wife ( since pregnancy) once literally screeched at me to leave my son alone as I was trying to grab him for a hug . I was upset . She told me to leave him alone , citing the reason that my son has a right to body autonomy. I thought she was joking so I laughed , she got up and told him they were leaving immediately. Her parting shot was that I’d never get my hands on HER baby - to say I was shocked was an understatement. Since then I was periodically threatened with no contact with the baby .
I don’t know where this will end and sometimes I’m not sure I care that much . I’d love a grandson relationship but I’m not holding out hope . I feel fed up and used tbh . I’ve done as much as I could for my son - I got him away from my abusive ex . My ex started being violent to my son then I got him away , something which he conveniently forgets . My ex was a drinker with a nasty temper and used to grab my son by his arm and drag him along . I wouldn’t stand for this . My son can’t remember because I largely shielded him from the violence going on . Then we had a blissful 20 years with my partner who was a wonderful stepdad. My son forgets this too , doesn’t really acknowledge his sudden death , or hasn’t really grieved for him either as far as I can see . He expects me to be over him - the love of my life , something which I find ridiculous and disgusting. Again it seems that another person is dispensable, only I won’t allow him to disrespect my partner in this way . I tell him that his attitude is bad and people don’t just get thrown away , you don’t just mourn someone for a couple of months and then you’re done with them .
I agree with what you say regarding all these EAC who possibly would not remain estranged if they were not with their partners.
The worst thing my DIL has taken from me is my son’s hug . He’s 6”4 and quite a big lad - his loving hugs made me feel safe and I miss them so much . I wonder if I will ever get another one , it’s really sad , the worst bit of all this - the lack of affection.

@Smiles funny thing is that my partner and I hadn’t been anywhere to stay since 2020 either . I’m not good at going away . We had planned our first holiday for 2023 , so by then he’d died so I cancelled it obviously. This year for my 60th birthday we’d planned a road trip to Isle of Skye and we’d planned to get married. A very sad year 2024 , which possibly accounts for why I can’t settle . I’m not looking forward to another move . In fact the house me and my partner used to rent has been renovated and is coming back up for rent again , but I’m not sure when . It will be fairly soon . So I’m looking at moving my things into the flat - housing association- but not really living there . I will apply for the house - landlord has agreed I can go back - then decide. I don’t want to risk losing the flat which is only 6 months old , but I can’t decide what’s best . I’m terribly indecisive aren’t I ! I’m conscious of not getting it wrong . In the meantime I’ll stay with dad , it should only be for an extra month so not long . It means I don’t need to unpack but I’ll pay bills etc then make a decision. Anything could happen with the house . It could be too expensive for what it is , it might fall through or something. I need my dad to guarantee my income here , but the LL is aware and still agrees I can go back . Maybe not a good idea ? If it’s going to be too much longer then I will stick with the flat - it’s quite isolated so I’m a bit nervous about the new area being on my own etc . Under normal circumstances my son would drive me a few places, not everywhere, but I’m missing his help . I don’t know what will happen in the future with my son . Maybe his wife will ban him from doing anything for me , she appears to want this rift . I could be wrong but I don’t think so . Of course my son could grow a backbone but that would be quite difficult!!
I suppose he will be far too busy with his son to devote time to me - he’s told me his priorities will change . Now I agreed this should be the case but surely I fit into his priorities somewhere, yea further down the list but somewhere. It’s a shame he doesn’t appear to have enough love to accommodate his wife and new son plus his mum too . I don’t think I’m expecting too much , certainly not his time , just a share of his love . He did say on the phone he’s “ not sure “ if he still loves me , whereas a few weeks ago he “ didn’t love me “ . Who knows what goes on in these ACs minds ? I cannot stop loving my son , I am still very wary of my DIL because of how she’s behaving so I will need to see a change in her for me to trust and love her once more . I may never feel the same about her I don’t know . She has hurt me terribly and taken away my closeness with my son , something which I can’t overlook easily . I think I will always view her with suspicion even if I try not to . This episode has shown me that once trust is broken it can’t be mended easily. It’s all very sad .

Hi….hope everyone is having a nice weekend. 🙂

I struggled last week, because I’m crashing up towards my wedding anniversary, and a year since DH died.

I didn’t, on any level, mean to suggest that those estranged from their own children didn’t suffer - I meant to say (badly!) that death was more final. Sorry…😗

Anyway, I’ve pushed through, given my head a wobble, as they say, and ploughing on.

I’ve decided to look towards May, when my son, family, and 8 other friends and family are coming over to London to see us for 3 weeks. Gawd lol. It’ll be exhausting but, hopefully, bring some joy.😉

Anyway, sorry again. 💐

It's understandable DL that you are a bit on edge especially if it's your first anniversary without your partner, I think most of us get a little emotional around special dates, birthdays , Christmas etc, take care of yourself.
Yogin, I try really hard to switch of but i just can't get the situation to stop tugging at me.
Smileless, lovely day here also, cold but beautiful sunshine, I think you and I are along the same coastline!

DiamondLily I didn't take it that us estranged parents don't suffer. I knew what you meant . You have never been unkind to anyone . Instead of giving your head a wobble I say shake the feathers up and give myself a good talking to . Or have a go at my husband for dieing but then I see him with that stupid grin on his face. Which makes me smile 😊.

All the firsts are hard but it doesn't get easier as the years go by well not for me as I think of all the things my husband has missed .
May is going to be very busy for you .but tiring in a lovely way. I am going on my first holiday since 2005 in May and looking forward to it.

You and your husband were treated appallingly by his children I remember all they put you through. But very glad your husband had the love from your children and they help you.

For me my husband dieing hurts far worse than what my son and daughter in law have done . I lost half of me and haven't been whole for 20 years. My husband didn't want to die but my son chose to throw me away.

Grief for my husband is with me daily missing my son isn't. That's why I decided late last year I am done letting my son hurt me and let him go. If he does want back into my life he has a lot to answer for and any relationship with be on my terms. He is no longer the loving caring son I knew for 32 years but then again I am no longer the mom he knew. I am stronger and very independent and my life is full of the people who care about me and me them.

Hope you keep posting DiamondLily I would miss your posts . 💐

Bridie don't be so hard on yourself . Try and do things that make you happy I am sure there is something no matter how small just one thing . Then try and find something else. And before you look around you can start to see things clearly. But it takes time. Be kind to yourself and post what you like. As you know I ramble on but that's me and it helps me. If people don't want to read my rambles then they don't have to and I know I repeat myself. But that's part of my HPX and it effects my memory. I can be talking and forget what I am saying or say the same thing twice and not even realise I have already said it. But at least I know understand why .

You sound as if you are by the sea as well. Hope you can find sea glass like I do . 💐

Thanks Whiff, I just can't shake of the guilt I feel that I must have unknowingly hurt people I love, but like you I have people in my life that bring me joy.
Yes a seaside here, sadly rare to find any sea glass now, I thought the recent stor s and high tides might have helped but not found any yet.

Hi - it’s 5.30am I’m laying here worrying and will attempt to get another couple of hours sleep . The thing is I need some urgent advice please. I know what the advice will probably be sadly , but I’m wondering if I might get some new perspective.
I’m seeing my son later . He maintains that he does not want to be estranged from me . He has , once again told me that I cannot have a relationship with ( yet unborn) son . Reason given now - because I say so and the decision is final .
So , there’s nothing specific. In fact I know for myself that this is him being vindictive and I’m not quite sure why .
The incident leading up to this took place months ago and has only been dragged back up again recently. He tells me there’s nothing I can do to make the situation better . The incident was miscommunication which was never discussed at the time , in between life was perfectly normal until Christmas. Nothing happened at Christmas other than the fact my son and DIL have started ghosting me and not wanting to see me ( DIL) and only wanting to see me on his terms ( AS) .
This is a précis of a situation which has come about with no real understanding by myself or by my family.
So , do I run the risk of angering my son by trying to discuss ( again) his reasoning for not allowing just me no contact with his son . Do I just ignore the fact this baby is due to arrive soon , go with the flow and accept that by not discussing this , it lets my son off the hook entirely? But I feel time is getting short now and I need to attempt to sort it out . I’m not feeling good towards my son and his wife for what they’ve put me through since the sudden death of my partner just over a year ago . They say I’ve changed - well obviously I have . They say I’m vicious, evil , nasty and should not be around their son ( or HER baby DIL) but the reality is that my son is simply coming up with different excuses for no contact.
Would anyone here put up with being told “ actions have consequences “ and not question why the need for a punishment? Because that’s what actions have consequences means right , a punishment? Punishment for what exactly. I don’t know or understand what I’m being punished for only that I’m being denied seeing my grandson just because they have the power and , boy , are they using this .
I realise I haven’t included much information on what’s been leading up to this point simply because I don’t really know or understand. To me , this feels like as the time for the baby’s arrival gets close , my son and his wife are simply ensuring they have sufficient justification themselves to prevent me from seeing him . I’m so hurt by this , no I’m heartbroken but emotionally I’ve shut down . I can’t take any more . I’ve been given lots of really good advice on here which I’ve take. I’ve given them space , I’ve backed off , I’ve tried offering olive branches . I keep being told that the “ situation “ will take time - I don’t understand what this “ situation “ is , how much time it’s likely to take and what on each is actually going on .
Do I simply accept that I’m at the mercy of my now , sadistic son and his wife and just try to act normal around my son when I see him later ? Therefore, ignoring the huge elephant in the room and giving him yet another easy time . There’s a possibility that if I try to discuss this with him he will simply leave which he has done in the past . He knows he holds all the cards and he’s playing one very spiteful game . I simply do not understand where this has come from - obviously years of resentment appears to be coming to the fore , but I have absolutely no idea of the reasons for this.

I would try and see your son and keep the conversation light and friendly. Perhaps say you hope DIL is keeping well but avoid conversation about future grandchild. Try and talk about other topics and try and appear relaxed. Hope the meeting goes smoothly. Don't allow your son to ruffle your feathers if you can. Good luck.

@mumofmadboys
I do try really hard but considering I don’t actually understand the reason behind my son’s cruelty towards me it’s so difficult not to ask anything. At this point in time I just want to resolve whatever is bothering him if I can . I really don’t understand how 3 decades of a loving mother / son relationship can disintegrate in space of a few months . I can’t help but wonder what’s going on in his mind . I kept the conversation light and friendly last week but I’m not feeling the same this week . I’m feeling like he’s destroying me but by bit . Like Japanese water torture and it hurts so much . I’m beginning to feel very depressed if I am honest and fear what might happen next .

The ugly jealousy Ladysu and your right to feel you can't trust your d.i.l ever again and yes be wary of her; she's shown you how she feels about you. Can you not stay living with your dad? you could help each other & it would be company for you both & cheaper too.

I understood what you meant DL and to cheer you a little for the upcoming ann.

I think you should keep your meeting, today, light and cheerful.

You son is obviously stressed, at the moment, so keep it light.

He has a wife with, what seems to be, flaky mental health, about to give birth.

He has, you say, a stressful job.

You are his mother, and still grieving for the loss of your DH. Don’t forget, though, if he was close to his step dad, he’s probably also grieving.

I would ask, lightly, how he is.

I would ask, lightly, how DIL is.

Don’t mention the baby - the child isn’t born yet.

Just try and put on a positive attitude, even if you don’t feel like it. Be someone who he wants to visit.

You said, before, he doesn’t like shouting - so don’t do it. Plaster on a smile until he’s gone.

Talk about you move and how it’s going - just chat about anything.

That’s the best I can suggest.💐

Yoginimeisje

I understood what you meant DL and to cheer you a little for the upcoming ann.

Thank you. 💐

Ladysu You clearly love your son with all of your heart, so if you got the advice that you shouldn't see your son whilst he is being so unkind & hurtful to you, you couldn't do it, same as me.

As difficult as it will be, don't mention your upcoming GS. I'll bet if it was you saying you didn't want to see or have anything to do with the new baby he would be horrified and want more than anything for you to see his baby son.

On paper you should tell your son where to go, but I know you wouldn't do that, he would be sooo shocked if you did.

Good luck with today's visit

DL has given you good advice ladysu

mumofmadboys

I would try and see your son and keep the conversation light and friendly. Perhaps say you hope DIL is keeping well but avoid conversation about future grandchild. Try and talk about other topics and try and appear relaxed. Hope the meeting goes smoothly. Don't allow your son to ruffle your feathers if you can. Good luck.

More good advice.

Ladysu don't try to understand why, draw a line under the past and move on into a new relationship with your son, it's the only way. I, and I think most of the estGP on here don't understand Why, aside of jealousy!

Ladysu, your comment, my now sadistic son and his wife, says such a lot. I would suggest not meeting him while you feel like that. Things will get said that can't be unsaid. Your son cannot be the answer to your problems as he's enough coping with his wife who is mentally ill' expecting his first child in less than ideal circumstances. He needs support by the sound of it. I doubt anything he does is because he's sadistic, just struggling himself. I know you hurt, there's a lot to dory, the house move for example, the suggestion of staying with your father sounds right, one less thing to worry about and have you actually got somewhere alternative lined up? I'm sorry if it's not what you want to hear, but when feelings run high both sides it's time to take a back step. Whatever you decide to do or say is your choice but look at it from his point of view too please.

Bridie, it takes a long time to come to terms with estrangement, the disbelief for a start. But it's out if our hands. Never felt so bad as I did when my husband died, no one realises how it feels to have that one person who has always got your back, you can talk to and put things in perspective, the lonliness, the loving words and gestures. For me the estrangement came after my husband died. He wouldn't have believed it. I'm happier now, expect no miracles, I will never be the confident person I was as I struggle inwardly, other people move on very quickly so you stop talking about it as they get fed up, so you play a part. It will happen to every one in every relationship in time unless you go first. Do think on the whole women cope better than men practically. On top of that half your family not speaking it's hardly surprising we wobble.
Yoga you me and Smilesless, all different home situation, all estranged at the same time 💐