I have two children aged 20 (boy) and 22 (girl)who are university students in Ireland. The oldest finishes university at the end of April. In Ireland, unless you are very poor, parents have to pay for university. I moved to the UK 18 months ago to get a better job to be able to support my children through university.
The children live in a house that I own in Dublin - I bought it when I was 23. They pay no rent as they are students. I pay all the utility bills and maintain and insure the house. They have a very expensive lifestyle as students - lots of foreign holidays, designer clothes, out drinking several nights a week, eat only at the best restaurants and cafes, have Sushi delivered to the door when they feel like it, and take taxis whenever they wake up late and can't get to work and/or university on time. They work full-time and go to university to be able to pay for their expensive lifestyles. They still get good grades.
However, they treat the house with terrible disrespect and me to, a lot of the time - I am a single parents since they were aged 3 and 18 months. There has been an infestation of mice in the house on two occasions. The last time this happened, the pest control company said it was the worst mouse infestation they had seen in a private house - and the infestation led to the neighbours house being infested also. This happened because my children, particularly my daughter, left food lying around uncovered, and bits of old food in the sink. I was renting out a room in the house at the time to another student. She had left food rotting on the table and kitchen work surfaces for a week. My children never let me know this, or never asked her to clean up, or never cleaned up the rotting food themselves to prevent a mouse infestation. When my children discovered there was mice in, they never let me know for two months. The final bill to get rid of the mice was 560 euros for the pest control company, and 2163 euros to defumigate the house afterwards and get rid of all the mice droppings. The children, but more particularly my daughter, are still not cleaning up the house. My son will do it sometimes with a couple of reminders. I went over last week to the house, the day after a new heating system was put in which cost 7000 euros, the bin in the kitchen was overflowing, there were pizza boxes with half eaten pizzas on the table, and bits of food in the sink. The external bin had not been put out for collection for several weeks and was overflowing. The carboard rubbish that my son had gotten from his Ikea delivery was left in the front garden. When I asked my daughter to empty the kitchen bin and dispose of the pizza boxes and their contents, she went mad, saying she hadn't time, that it wasn't her job, saying she hadn't time as she was going to work - the external bin is in the front of the house, so on her way out to work. Later I discovered she had no work that day.
There is a Ukranian girl now sharing the house who is lovely and keeps the house clean, but who has to do more than her fair share, because my two children won't help, though she acknowledges that my son helps a lot more than my daughter. This Ukranian girl states my daughter refused to help with any of the cleaning, leaves clothes everyone in the kitchen and sitting room, leaves used sanitary towels sticking out of bins and leaves takeaway foods uncovered and rotting in the fridge until they smell. About three years ago, there were two German girls sharing the house with my children and they couldn't cope with my duaghter's mess, leaving clothes everywhere, not cleaning up, and letting her dog pee everywhere and refusing to clean it up afterwards.
There is a back story to this, and apologies if I am long-winded. My daughter has always been quite a difficult person from a young age. Terrible temper tantrums from aged 2. In teenage years, she would scream the house down if the clothes she wanted to wear for school were in the wash - no uniform for school. Boundaries never worked - her demands were never given in to, and she lost privileges such as pocket money for bad behaviour. She also bullied her brother a lot and would make him cry - when I saw it, I always intervened, though they are still very close and tell each other everything and will back each other up against me. Other people have also found my daughter very difficult including teachers, and the family she stayed with in France when she spent a year there during the fourth year of secondary schooling - she had wanted to this and it was very expensive to do - 15000 for the year. As a teenager she would often threaten to tell social work that I was beating them up, and threaten that she would get my son taken away from me. She used to tell my son that I beat her up, and he would take her side, but when I asked him had he ever seen me beat her up, he would say he never had. She would also tell neighbours that I had assaulted her. When she used to threaten social work, I used to give her the telephone number to ring - I worked in healthcare so had the relevant numbers.
However, there is more of a back story to this. My son is not blameless either. I was very close to my son until he was about 14. At this time, he started to mix in with a bad crowd, and nothing I said or did could dissuade him from this, and he resented how much I tried to keep tabs on him. My son eventually started stealing from me, discovered the pin numbers for my online bank account, sold items from the house - cameras etc. He would have friends in when I was not there and they would eat all the food in the house, so it would be all gone within a day or two - this was before they went to university. They both had parties in the house when I was on night duty - I had to work four nights per month, and once when I went away for a night with my best friend. They damaged the work surfaces in the kitchen by dancing on them, damaged sofas by them and their friends vomiting on them. I had a converted attic in the house which was used as a den, and they put cigarette burns in the furniture and threw burning shorts and jeans out of the attic windows.
Things came to a head in those years before university, when my son age 16 decided to hide drugs in the house for one of his undesirable friends in exchange for 50 euros - the house was subsequently raided on a tip off by our police, the Gardai.. My son subsequently had to go into hiding as there was a threat on his life from the loss of money because the drugs were seized. This meant he had to change school as the drug gang knew which school he attended. No state school would take him because of the risk, but I got him into a private school, which cost 8000 per year. I had to work 55 hours per week though to pay for this school for two years, and eventually suffered with burnout. My son and daughter also had to move out of what was our family home to where they live now, which was my first house, which I had bought at a very young age and managed to keep. The gang tried to intimidate me in my home, and I was living in fear of being petrol bombed for the drug debt. A member of the gang came to my house one night. I knew who was ringing at my door, and I rang the police and they were arrested.
These were not children who were neglected. They did lots of after school activities, which they wanted to do. My daughter's hobby was sailing, and I paid for all this, including her sailing exams. They both also loved music, and had piano, singing, drum and saxaphone lessons. We travelled each summer abroad. They had lots of support with school, and I paid for extra tuition as they needed it.
I guess here, I would just like some opinions. Because of all that has happened, I feel a lot of resentment towards my children, and don't feel any real connection to them anymore. My daughter in particular, has always treated me with some contempt. If I text her, she will not respond for days, or until she needs something from me. If I try and arrange to do something nice with her, she will fob me off constantly. If I talk about how their behaviour has upset me or how I find it disrespectful, they become angry and annoyed and just walk away. If I say that something they have done or said has hurt me, and I feel the need to talk about it, they again become angry and blaming and everything is my fault. It's a big effort for them to do anything for Mother's Day or my birthday - if I don't remind them beforehand they won't do anything, yet I always go out of my way to celebrate their birthdays and buy them something nice, and also to make Christmas special. They will meet up with me when I am home sometimes, but they seem only interested if I am taking them out to an expensive restaurant or with the promise of cocktails and a serious amount of alcohol, and so it's gets expensive for me to try and maintain a relationship with them. Tea/coffee and cake in the local cafe or breakfast/lunch in a local bar is not enticing for them.
I am no longer sure, I can maintain a relationship with both of them. I still feel so resentful and sad about all that has happened and the way they have treated me, and that's impacting on my life, friendships and my relationship with my partner. I am working full-time abroad in the UK, but feel no longer able to do this - just wrecked by everything, and want to work part-time, but I can't sell the house where they are living because they are still in university, but yet I cannot stand to go there, and all the pressure to maintain it when they treat it so badly. After the last night when my daughter refused to empty the overflowing bin, I said I didn't want a relationship with her anymore, that I was so tired of trying to support them when they treated me and the house so badly.
Apologies for such a long post, and thanks to whoever manages to read through it, I just need some direction and advice on all this.
Elaine If the expectation is both move out after finishing college, that is completely fair. I would give them fair notice of this too so they can save for a deposit etc
I don't know how well it will go for you but I hope they comply
What their father put both them and you through is totally unacceptable.. You fought hard and well for them and I hope they understand that one day.
Elaine, I really do feel for you. The situation with your adult children is beyond you now, to the point you want to almost forget that they and your house in Ireland exist. It sounds as though the situation is making you ill.
You describe their father’s controlling behaviour, and perhaps you have overcompensated for it by going in the other direction, asking nothing of your children and giving them everything they want.
If they were my children and I was in your position, and whatever it takes, I would evict both children from the house, let them solve the problems that result from that by themselves, have the house thoroughly cleaned etc, and put it on the market.
As things are, your children are not equipped for the demands of adult life. Having to solve some problems will be very good for them. They desperately need to learn to take responsibility for themselves. They won’t like you for it and it won’t be easy - but could things be any worse than they are already?
To be fair, though, some students do live in squalid conditions.
Remember this lot?
They often have a huge clean-up at the end of term (or the end of year) but when they get their own places, they suddenly become very house proud. It's a curious phenomenon.
I expect other posters will now tell me that ther student DC were never like that.
This is a very long post and I haven’t read all the replies. I hate to tell anyone what to do but it does sound that for your own wellbeing, you must do something and do it soon.
Your children sound like they’ve used and abused you. I know that it is painful to realise that you’ve allowed this but they have clearly had everything they’ve wanted for too long….and you’ve always provided that for them. Primarily they are now working adults rather than students, even though they behave like students, seemingly. So one option is to ask for a realistic rent…the going rate…if they refuse then give them notice so that other people can live there. Another option would be to give notice to everyone in the house. Legally they must all go. Do some work on the house/leave it empty for a short while, then relet. But not to them.
Whatever you do, this must surely come to an end. You will have unconditional love for your children but try to see your children as you would anyone else. I dont think you would want them in your life, sadly. So seperate yourself from them…..see what happens….i think there will be an agreeable, empty space.Maybe in years to come, you can all reconnect but not at the moment.
Callistemon21
To be fair, though, some students do live in squalid conditions.
Remember this lot?
They often have a huge clean-up at the end of term (or the end of year) but when they get their own places, they suddenly become very house proud. It's a curious phenomenon.
I expect other posters will now tell me that ther student DC were never like that.
I used to despair, especially one of my student age children. She now has an immaculate home. Shoes off at the door !
Oh my gosh
It is horrifying truly
The landlords of student housing must be pulling out their hair
Placating this level of selfishness and disrespect will hurt them in the long term. It's setting an unrealistic precedent that they will be able to successfully go through life with their vile attitudes. Not everyone is going to be as forgiving and unrelenting in their support as mummy. Sometimes we have to let go to hold on. Give them a deadline and start the process of cutting the cord.
DS was the same Iam, his wife was just as bad but since he got divorced his home is immaculate. He says he's turned into me 
.
I don’t think students can be quite as slobby as they used to be.
3 of my grandchildren are at Unis - one in halls, the other two in house shares.
The Uni make sure their halls apartments are kept reasonable, and the other two are in rented homes, where the landlords (sensibly!) do monthly inspections.
Student accommodation is hard to get now - no one wants to lose their accommodation or references.
They are untidy when they come home for vacation, but they, through habit, are clean.🙂
It is such an unhappy situation for you.
Could you have your son to live with you after your DD finishes her studies? Give up your English job and return to live with your DP?
If DS doesn't like that then he can find his own place.
That way you could let the house out for proper rent to strangers through an agency and not have to constantly nag them , your AC, about the state of it.
I think that's what I would do.
Strangers are easier to deal with than family. There is no emotional attachment.
Thanks again to all of you for all the advice.
Just to update, my solicitor sent a letter stating that my daughter had to be out of the house by 1st September and that my son could only stay there whilst in college.
I was home last weekend after my lovely Ukranian lodger said my children had left the place in a state and she was tired cleaning the house without their help. She send me photos of the mess my son and daughter had left. My son had cooked with his girlfriend but had not cleaned up, and my daughter had put empty and dirty dishes in the fridge. She informed me that my son had also gotten a hamster and she was concerned that the hamster would not be fed or given enough water and might die. I had told my son that they could not have any animals in the house again after my daughter's dog died two years ago, and insisted he take the hamster back to the pet shop. I reminded him that he could only stay in the house for the next two years of college provided there were no more complaints from our Ukranian lodger. For the remainder of the weekend, neither of them spoke to me, possibly a blessing, but also very awkward, which is why I don't want to live with them.
I am now thinking of putting the house up for sale in September, and helping my son with first month's rent and deposit for a place. I feel bad though as I had promised our lovely Ukranian lodger that she could stay until 2025, but I don't think I can hack the hassle with my son and daughter in the house any longer.
I think that sounds a good solution. Your lodger will have plenty of time to find somewhere else, as houses take a while to sell.
If you supply a good reference, it should be pretty simple.🙂
I couldn’t read all of your post as it was so long and, quite frankly, raising my blood pressure! Easy for me to say as they aren’t my children but evict them, cut your losses and get on with your life. Your daughter, in particular, sounds a nightmare. You have gone above and beyond for them and you’ve only enabled them. Your daughter may have issues but you won’t be around for ever and at some point she will have to deal with her own problems. Being a parent to AC doesn’t mean being a doormat.
I wish you well. Do what you have to do with a clear conscience and concentrate on yourself.
That sounds like an excellent idea Elaine. I'm sure your lovely lodger will understand and as DL has posted, you can give her a glowing reference which will make it easier and 5 months notice should be more than adequate.
You need to rid yourself of this burden.
What Smileless said !
I wish you luck with your sensible plan.
This sounds like a good solution, always assuming that they'll leave. Putting dirty dishes inthe fridge sounds like deliberate provocation.. and I think you'll have to remain very bounderied and firm..
If you will be selling the house perhaps you could financially help your Ukranian lodger.. boy it sounds like she's earnt a helping hand..
I cannot believe how you have let your children be so disrespectful, this is not good for them for a start, this entitlement. I would sell the house as soon as they finish university and tell your lodger that, she has plenty of time to find alternative accommodation. Tell them you can no longer afford to run two homes. Establish fair but consistabt boundaries , if they think it’s just too awful trying to support them selves and estrange you well you cab5 do much about it, they can always come to your home and pay their way it’s their choice. I am estranged from one of my children but although I bought them up alone, they both were very self sufficient, got good jobs and treated me with love I am proud of them for the lives they have made. Not so proud of being estranged but that’s another story. Despite that they are good parents, happy and in long marriages, so they have the lives they want, which is what we all want for our children.
Thanks to all again for your replies. I feel confident now in my decision for my daughter to leave by 1st September and my son to find a place to rent over the summer. If they estrange, they estrange.
I spoke to the Ukranian girl who lodges in the house. She has no problem moving out in September, and said she was grateful to have the house for so long. I offered to pay the deposit and first month's rent for any room she rents in a shared house. She has been great and is a pleasure to have in the house. She sent me a text after the last episode of mess left by my son and daughter, saying it makes her sad to see the way they treat me as I have done more that she thinks most parents would do. It says it all really! The whole thing has made me feel absolutely exhausted!
I've read all the posts and I honestly think your only solution is to give them the house as an early inheritance. Your mental health is hanging by a thread and you need to address that first. They will probably still be awkward with you, but at least it will no longer cost you many, many euros just to have your generosity kicked back in your face. I know some posters see that (gift of the house) as a reward, but owning a house and, most importantly, being solely responsible for it, is also a big responsibility. If the house belongs to them, and they still choose to live in what sounds like squalor, that's their choice, the same as if they'd bought it themselves. I also (as someone else said) used to be a TA, but I don't see this as rewarding bad behaviour - it's doing what is necessary for your well-being. Good luck.
Elaine I may have a bit of a mess in the kitchen and maybe in the fridge too...
We have also had hamsters (good way to teach children responsibility)
I hope no one would really ever be willing for their children to estrange them because they evicted them over that small a mess?
Can we see the photos? Is it worse than your words described?
ElaineMcG47
Thanks to all again for your replies. I feel confident now in my decision for my daughter to leave by 1st September and my son to find a place to rent over the summer. If they estrange, they estrange.
I spoke to the Ukranian girl who lodges in the house. She has no problem moving out in September, and said she was grateful to have the house for so long. I offered to pay the deposit and first month's rent for any room she rents in a shared house. She has been great and is a pleasure to have in the house. She sent me a text after the last episode of mess left by my son and daughter, saying it makes her sad to see the way they treat me as I have done more that she thinks most parents would do. It says it all really! The whole thing has made me feel absolutely exhausted!
I think, once the house is sold, and no longer such a worry, that you’ll feel better.
It won’t be your problem any more, and I’m sure the Ukrainian girl will happier living in less squalor!
Hopefully, in time, your ACs will learn to respect the property of others. 🙂
It’s a pity they didn’t appreciate your generosity.
Have you read the thread VS? I ask because of the flippancy of your post.
These are not children, they are adults who are disrespecting the property that their mother owns and if you are ever in the position of fearing that your AC may estrange you, which I hope you never are, you may think back to posting I hope no one would really be willing for their children to estrange them because they evicted them over that small a mess and see how inappropriate that is.
Unfortunately OurKid people who live in squalor will do so whether they own their home or not and yes, gifting them the house is rewarding bad behaviour. They may eventually learn the hard way when they find their mother isn't the only landlord who evicts them for disrespecting the property they live in.
VioletSky
Elaine I may have a bit of a mess in the kitchen and maybe in the fridge too...
We have also had hamsters (good way to teach children responsibility)
I hope no one would really ever be willing for their children to estrange them because they evicted them over that small a mess?
Can we see the photos? Is it worse than your words described?
RYBT
Yes of course I have read the thread
I simply would not expect things to become perfect in a short time frame
I would never be "flippant" over estrangement, I think it is easy to say someone would gladly be estranged rather than the washing up being left in a home until things happen like grandchildren and the OP is then estranged from them too
I really cannot understand casually suggesting allowing estrangement be the best course of action when it has hurt so many people on this forum and the pain is often compared to a "living bereavement". Especially when there are grandchildren. So many other avenues are available to get family relationships back on track, like mediation and counselling.
So I think I would say I am equally baffled by some of the responses
Iam64
VioletSky
Elaine I may have a bit of a mess in the kitchen and maybe in the fridge too...
We have also had hamsters (good way to teach children responsibility)
I hope no one would really ever be willing for their children to estrange them because they evicted them over that small a mess?
Can we see the photos? Is it worse than your words described?RYBT
very apt Iam64
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join the discussion, watch threads and lots more.
Register now »Already registered? Log in with:
Gransnet »Get our top conversations, latest advice, fantastic competitions, and more, straight to your inbox. Sign up to our daily newsletter here.
