I don't know what RYBT means so unless someone tells me, it isn't going to have an impact
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Estrangement
In danger of becoming estranged from adult children
(243 Posts)I have two children aged 20 (boy) and 22 (girl)who are university students in Ireland. The oldest finishes university at the end of April. In Ireland, unless you are very poor, parents have to pay for university. I moved to the UK 18 months ago to get a better job to be able to support my children through university.
The children live in a house that I own in Dublin - I bought it when I was 23. They pay no rent as they are students. I pay all the utility bills and maintain and insure the house. They have a very expensive lifestyle as students - lots of foreign holidays, designer clothes, out drinking several nights a week, eat only at the best restaurants and cafes, have Sushi delivered to the door when they feel like it, and take taxis whenever they wake up late and can't get to work and/or university on time. They work full-time and go to university to be able to pay for their expensive lifestyles. They still get good grades.
However, they treat the house with terrible disrespect and me to, a lot of the time - I am a single parents since they were aged 3 and 18 months. There has been an infestation of mice in the house on two occasions. The last time this happened, the pest control company said it was the worst mouse infestation they had seen in a private house - and the infestation led to the neighbours house being infested also. This happened because my children, particularly my daughter, left food lying around uncovered, and bits of old food in the sink. I was renting out a room in the house at the time to another student. She had left food rotting on the table and kitchen work surfaces for a week. My children never let me know this, or never asked her to clean up, or never cleaned up the rotting food themselves to prevent a mouse infestation. When my children discovered there was mice in, they never let me know for two months. The final bill to get rid of the mice was 560 euros for the pest control company, and 2163 euros to defumigate the house afterwards and get rid of all the mice droppings. The children, but more particularly my daughter, are still not cleaning up the house. My son will do it sometimes with a couple of reminders. I went over last week to the house, the day after a new heating system was put in which cost 7000 euros, the bin in the kitchen was overflowing, there were pizza boxes with half eaten pizzas on the table, and bits of food in the sink. The external bin had not been put out for collection for several weeks and was overflowing. The carboard rubbish that my son had gotten from his Ikea delivery was left in the front garden. When I asked my daughter to empty the kitchen bin and dispose of the pizza boxes and their contents, she went mad, saying she hadn't time, that it wasn't her job, saying she hadn't time as she was going to work - the external bin is in the front of the house, so on her way out to work. Later I discovered she had no work that day.
There is a Ukranian girl now sharing the house who is lovely and keeps the house clean, but who has to do more than her fair share, because my two children won't help, though she acknowledges that my son helps a lot more than my daughter. This Ukranian girl states my daughter refused to help with any of the cleaning, leaves clothes everyone in the kitchen and sitting room, leaves used sanitary towels sticking out of bins and leaves takeaway foods uncovered and rotting in the fridge until they smell. About three years ago, there were two German girls sharing the house with my children and they couldn't cope with my duaghter's mess, leaving clothes everywhere, not cleaning up, and letting her dog pee everywhere and refusing to clean it up afterwards.
There is a back story to this, and apologies if I am long-winded. My daughter has always been quite a difficult person from a young age. Terrible temper tantrums from aged 2. In teenage years, she would scream the house down if the clothes she wanted to wear for school were in the wash - no uniform for school. Boundaries never worked - her demands were never given in to, and she lost privileges such as pocket money for bad behaviour. She also bullied her brother a lot and would make him cry - when I saw it, I always intervened, though they are still very close and tell each other everything and will back each other up against me. Other people have also found my daughter very difficult including teachers, and the family she stayed with in France when she spent a year there during the fourth year of secondary schooling - she had wanted to this and it was very expensive to do - 15000 for the year. As a teenager she would often threaten to tell social work that I was beating them up, and threaten that she would get my son taken away from me. She used to tell my son that I beat her up, and he would take her side, but when I asked him had he ever seen me beat her up, he would say he never had. She would also tell neighbours that I had assaulted her. When she used to threaten social work, I used to give her the telephone number to ring - I worked in healthcare so had the relevant numbers.
However, there is more of a back story to this. My son is not blameless either. I was very close to my son until he was about 14. At this time, he started to mix in with a bad crowd, and nothing I said or did could dissuade him from this, and he resented how much I tried to keep tabs on him. My son eventually started stealing from me, discovered the pin numbers for my online bank account, sold items from the house - cameras etc. He would have friends in when I was not there and they would eat all the food in the house, so it would be all gone within a day or two - this was before they went to university. They both had parties in the house when I was on night duty - I had to work four nights per month, and once when I went away for a night with my best friend. They damaged the work surfaces in the kitchen by dancing on them, damaged sofas by them and their friends vomiting on them. I had a converted attic in the house which was used as a den, and they put cigarette burns in the furniture and threw burning shorts and jeans out of the attic windows.
Things came to a head in those years before university, when my son age 16 decided to hide drugs in the house for one of his undesirable friends in exchange for 50 euros - the house was subsequently raided on a tip off by our police, the Gardai.. My son subsequently had to go into hiding as there was a threat on his life from the loss of money because the drugs were seized. This meant he had to change school as the drug gang knew which school he attended. No state school would take him because of the risk, but I got him into a private school, which cost 8000 per year. I had to work 55 hours per week though to pay for this school for two years, and eventually suffered with burnout. My son and daughter also had to move out of what was our family home to where they live now, which was my first house, which I had bought at a very young age and managed to keep. The gang tried to intimidate me in my home, and I was living in fear of being petrol bombed for the drug debt. A member of the gang came to my house one night. I knew who was ringing at my door, and I rang the police and they were arrested.
These were not children who were neglected. They did lots of after school activities, which they wanted to do. My daughter's hobby was sailing, and I paid for all this, including her sailing exams. They both also loved music, and had piano, singing, drum and saxaphone lessons. We travelled each summer abroad. They had lots of support with school, and I paid for extra tuition as they needed it.
I guess here, I would just like some opinions. Because of all that has happened, I feel a lot of resentment towards my children, and don't feel any real connection to them anymore. My daughter in particular, has always treated me with some contempt. If I text her, she will not respond for days, or until she needs something from me. If I try and arrange to do something nice with her, she will fob me off constantly. If I talk about how their behaviour has upset me or how I find it disrespectful, they become angry and annoyed and just walk away. If I say that something they have done or said has hurt me, and I feel the need to talk about it, they again become angry and blaming and everything is my fault. It's a big effort for them to do anything for Mother's Day or my birthday - if I don't remind them beforehand they won't do anything, yet I always go out of my way to celebrate their birthdays and buy them something nice, and also to make Christmas special. They will meet up with me when I am home sometimes, but they seem only interested if I am taking them out to an expensive restaurant or with the promise of cocktails and a serious amount of alcohol, and so it's gets expensive for me to try and maintain a relationship with them. Tea/coffee and cake in the local cafe or breakfast/lunch in a local bar is not enticing for them.
I am no longer sure, I can maintain a relationship with both of them. I still feel so resentful and sad about all that has happened and the way they have treated me, and that's impacting on my life, friendships and my relationship with my partner. I am working full-time abroad in the UK, but feel no longer able to do this - just wrecked by everything, and want to work part-time, but I can't sell the house where they are living because they are still in university, but yet I cannot stand to go there, and all the pressure to maintain it when they treat it so badly. After the last night when my daughter refused to empty the overflowing bin, I said I didn't want a relationship with her anymore, that I was so tired of trying to support them when they treated me and the house so badly.
Apologies for such a long post, and thanks to whoever manages to read through it, I just need some direction and advice on all this.
Who has said they would gladly be estranged than the washing up being left in the home VS? Who has casually suggested that allowing estrangement is the best course of action?
You seem to be suggesting that when estrangement happens, it's because the parents who become estranged 'allow it to happen'.
To say that I am baffled by your responses would be an understatement.
No I have not said that in any way
I suggest you read what you posted again VS.
VioletSky
Yes of course I have read the thread
I simply would not expect things to become perfect in a short time frame
I would never be "flippant" over estrangement, I think it is easy to say someone would gladly be estranged rather than the washing up being left in a home until things happen like grandchildren and the OP is then estranged from them too
I really cannot understand casually suggesting allowing estrangement be the best course of action when it has hurt so many people on this forum and the pain is often compared to a "living bereavement". Especially when there are grandchildren. So many other avenues are available to get family relationships back on track, like mediation and counselling.
So I think I would say I am equally baffled by some of the responses
Yes of course I have read the thread
Obviously not properly.
Have you forgotten what you yourself said when I mentioned slobby students (who weren't as bad as Elaine's two btw):
Oh my gosh
It is horrifying truly
The landlords of student housing must be pulling out their hair
Quote Violetsky
the washing up being left is the least of it 🤔
Rotting food, mice infestations, bins never emptied, cardboard strewn over the front garden etc.
Actually, it's a wonder the neighbours haven't complained to Environmental Health.
Or perhaps they have, apologies if I haven't RTWT.
Smileless2012
I suggest you read what you posted again VS.
I don't need to, I am an expert on what I think/mean
What does RTWT mean?
So why did you post No I have not said that in anyway when you clearly have VS?
Read the whole thread!!!
VioletSky
Elaine I may have a bit of a mess in the kitchen and maybe in the fridge too...
We have also had hamsters (good way to teach children responsibility)
I hope no one would really ever be willing for their children to estrange them because they evicted them over that small a mess?
Can we see the photos? Is it worse than your words described?
Ok my first response is to the latest by OP and I will not be interacting with anything that feels disrespectful by design
I have no idea what you mean VS or why that is even relevant.
We've had hamsters too.
So sweet but they are escape artists.
VioletSky
Elaine I may have a bit of a mess in the kitchen and maybe in the fridge too...
We have also had hamsters (good way to teach children responsibility)
I hope no one would really ever be willing for their children to estrange them because they evicted them over that small a mess?
Can we see the photos? Is it worse than your words described?
This.
Which is why I said RTWT.
Elaine, don't put photos on here. GNHQ might well remove them for you as it could cause more problems.
VioletSky
Yes of course I have read the thread
I simply would not expect things to become perfect in a short time frame
I would never be "flippant" over estrangement, I think it is easy to say someone would gladly be estranged rather than the washing up being left in a home until things happen like grandchildren and the OP is then estranged from them too
I really cannot understand casually suggesting allowing estrangement be the best course of action when it has hurt so many people on this forum and the pain is often compared to a "living bereavement". Especially when there are grandchildren. So many other avenues are available to get family relationships back on track, like mediation and counselling.
So I think I would say I am equally baffled by some of the responses
Read the whole thing. We are not talking about a couple of hamsters spitting their food around.
I’ve had a virtual menagerie when the kids were young. No one lived in squalor.
These adults were living in filth, to the point that the neighbours were infested etc. 😗
I’m sorry - that is not normal behaviour by adults. Or, not in my world…🙄
No it isn't DL. That's how the last tenant in our flat lived and it's bad enough to see that a property you own has been turned into a s..t hole, so it must be even worse when the ones responsible are your own AC who you've been trying to support.
Elaine - no, don’t put photos on.
Personal photos are too outing.
You have been fully justified in your actions. It’s not about housework, it’s about your ACs totally abiding your trust and generosity.
If they choose to estrange, then they might find it’s a chilly world out there without a parent holding their hands.🙄
Smileless2012
No it isn't DL. That's how the last tenant in our flat lived and it's bad enough to see that a property you own has been turned into a s..t hole, so it must be even worse when the ones responsible are your own AC who you've been trying to support.
I quite agree. I have never lived like that and I’ve always been (until relatively recently) knee deep in various sorts of pets.
The OP’s adult children are obviously intelligent, yet chose to live like complete slobs.
It doesn’t need counselling - it needs a toe up the backside and some cleaning equipment.🙄
Elaine - that should have read “abusing” not “abiding”.🙂
Thanks, Diamond Lilly.
VS - it's not just a bit of mess left once or twice in the kitchen but years of abuse of the property - two mice infestations, one bed bug infestation, parties and vomiting on sofas, blocking drains on our flat roof with coke cans which caused a leak in the kitchen, throwing burning shorts out of the attic window, letting their friends graffiti on the wall of the converted, burning holes in sofas there, selling items from the house, taking money from my bank account, getting involved in drugs - some of this stuff occurred when they were 16 and 17. The mice infestations, bed bug infestations, complaints from all the lodgers who shared with them - the lodgers cover some of the expenses from the house - about how untidy they were, that they couldn't bring friends around as they were so ashamed of the mess my children left the place in. They couldn't move easily either due to lack of other rental accommodation. My daughter had a dog before and would let it pee everywhere, and never wipe it up, though it was her dog.
In relation to the hamster, they are cute if people look after them, but they are escape artists. My son is never there to look after a hamster - college, socialising, girlfriend, so my lodger's worry that the hamster would die of dehydration or starvation was a valid one. In any case, I had made it clear to my son that I didn't want any pets in the house as I knew they wouldn't clean up after them, but my son got the hamster any way without telling me.
My son is now not talking to me as I asked him to bring the hamster back to the shop and as I said he would have to move out in September.
In relation to leaving the house to the children, I cannot do that as it is my pension. I worked in so many different jobs to work around the children, so I never built up a pension and am relying on the State pension. My son is aware that I have always needed to sell the house at some stage to fund my pension, but is still furious about it, stating it is his home, but then if they had treated it better and I had not had to spend all that money on repairs due to the damage to it, things might be a little different.
What I find most difficult to come to terms with is that there are very wealthy privileged children out there, who people would say have everything, but do not behave like this towards their parents. I tried to do the best for my children, but they never appreciated any of it.
I'm amazed you've tolerated their behaviour for as long as you have Elaine. You've done your best and it's now time for them to stand on their own two feet, and take responsibility for the consequences of their behaviour 
.
You’ll be doing them a favour Elaine.
ElaineMcG47
Thanks, Diamond Lilly.
VS - it's not just a bit of mess left once or twice in the kitchen but years of abuse of the property - two mice infestations, one bed bug infestation, parties and vomiting on sofas, blocking drains on our flat roof with coke cans which caused a leak in the kitchen, throwing burning shorts out of the attic window, letting their friends graffiti on the wall of the converted, burning holes in sofas there, selling items from the house, taking money from my bank account, getting involved in drugs - some of this stuff occurred when they were 16 and 17. The mice infestations, bed bug infestations, complaints from all the lodgers who shared with them - the lodgers cover some of the expenses from the house - about how untidy they were, that they couldn't bring friends around as they were so ashamed of the mess my children left the place in. They couldn't move easily either due to lack of other rental accommodation. My daughter had a dog before and would let it pee everywhere, and never wipe it up, though it was her dog.
In relation to the hamster, they are cute if people look after them, but they are escape artists. My son is never there to look after a hamster - college, socialising, girlfriend, so my lodger's worry that the hamster would die of dehydration or starvation was a valid one. In any case, I had made it clear to my son that I didn't want any pets in the house as I knew they wouldn't clean up after them, but my son got the hamster any way without telling me.
My son is now not talking to me as I asked him to bring the hamster back to the shop and as I said he would have to move out in September.
In relation to leaving the house to the children, I cannot do that as it is my pension. I worked in so many different jobs to work around the children, so I never built up a pension and am relying on the State pension. My son is aware that I have always needed to sell the house at some stage to fund my pension, but is still furious about it, stating it is his home, but then if they had treated it better and I had not had to spend all that money on repairs due to the damage to it, things might be a little different.
What I find most difficult to come to terms with is that there are very wealthy privileged children out there, who people would say have everything, but do not behave like this towards their parents. I tried to do the best for my children, but they never appreciated any of it.
No, I know... You are absolutely right to set boundaries
I just thought they would get a bit longer to get their acts together after an ultimatum, they have a lot of bad habits to undo and that will take time
I just didn't know that a bit of washing up would be the last straw and I am not sure they really did either... And I have washing up sitting waiting for the second time today
Also I really would be careful about being estranged, it's not an easy thing to move past and I really don't want to see you go through that pain. If you could have moved them out gently at the end of education (frustrated as you are) I think the relationship would have stayed intact till your children have the chance to grow up and learn some life lessons... They are living like a lot of students, it's just unfortunate for you it is your home
Hope things work out
The daughter finishes at the end of this month & has presumably gone already, the son can stay until September. Very little sign of anything happening “gently”. Things sound just as bad at the house, and relationships are just as strained.
Do you think this is an “intact” relationship now? How do you think remaining any longer in their mother’s house, disrespecting it at her expense, will help to “undo their bad habits? They are adults, VS. Be real.
If anyone was cruel to an animal in my property, they would be dragged out by their ear (literally!) and out on the street before they knew what hit them.
I hope the hamster finds a good home.
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