I have two children aged 20 (boy) and 22 (girl)who are university students in Ireland. The oldest finishes university at the end of April. In Ireland, unless you are very poor, parents have to pay for university. I moved to the UK 18 months ago to get a better job to be able to support my children through university.
The children live in a house that I own in Dublin - I bought it when I was 23. They pay no rent as they are students. I pay all the utility bills and maintain and insure the house. They have a very expensive lifestyle as students - lots of foreign holidays, designer clothes, out drinking several nights a week, eat only at the best restaurants and cafes, have Sushi delivered to the door when they feel like it, and take taxis whenever they wake up late and can't get to work and/or university on time. They work full-time and go to university to be able to pay for their expensive lifestyles. They still get good grades.
However, they treat the house with terrible disrespect and me to, a lot of the time - I am a single parents since they were aged 3 and 18 months. There has been an infestation of mice in the house on two occasions. The last time this happened, the pest control company said it was the worst mouse infestation they had seen in a private house - and the infestation led to the neighbours house being infested also. This happened because my children, particularly my daughter, left food lying around uncovered, and bits of old food in the sink. I was renting out a room in the house at the time to another student. She had left food rotting on the table and kitchen work surfaces for a week. My children never let me know this, or never asked her to clean up, or never cleaned up the rotting food themselves to prevent a mouse infestation. When my children discovered there was mice in, they never let me know for two months. The final bill to get rid of the mice was 560 euros for the pest control company, and 2163 euros to defumigate the house afterwards and get rid of all the mice droppings. The children, but more particularly my daughter, are still not cleaning up the house. My son will do it sometimes with a couple of reminders. I went over last week to the house, the day after a new heating system was put in which cost 7000 euros, the bin in the kitchen was overflowing, there were pizza boxes with half eaten pizzas on the table, and bits of food in the sink. The external bin had not been put out for collection for several weeks and was overflowing. The carboard rubbish that my son had gotten from his Ikea delivery was left in the front garden. When I asked my daughter to empty the kitchen bin and dispose of the pizza boxes and their contents, she went mad, saying she hadn't time, that it wasn't her job, saying she hadn't time as she was going to work - the external bin is in the front of the house, so on her way out to work. Later I discovered she had no work that day.
There is a Ukranian girl now sharing the house who is lovely and keeps the house clean, but who has to do more than her fair share, because my two children won't help, though she acknowledges that my son helps a lot more than my daughter. This Ukranian girl states my daughter refused to help with any of the cleaning, leaves clothes everyone in the kitchen and sitting room, leaves used sanitary towels sticking out of bins and leaves takeaway foods uncovered and rotting in the fridge until they smell. About three years ago, there were two German girls sharing the house with my children and they couldn't cope with my duaghter's mess, leaving clothes everywhere, not cleaning up, and letting her dog pee everywhere and refusing to clean it up afterwards.
There is a back story to this, and apologies if I am long-winded. My daughter has always been quite a difficult person from a young age. Terrible temper tantrums from aged 2. In teenage years, she would scream the house down if the clothes she wanted to wear for school were in the wash - no uniform for school. Boundaries never worked - her demands were never given in to, and she lost privileges such as pocket money for bad behaviour. She also bullied her brother a lot and would make him cry - when I saw it, I always intervened, though they are still very close and tell each other everything and will back each other up against me. Other people have also found my daughter very difficult including teachers, and the family she stayed with in France when she spent a year there during the fourth year of secondary schooling - she had wanted to this and it was very expensive to do - 15000 for the year. As a teenager she would often threaten to tell social work that I was beating them up, and threaten that she would get my son taken away from me. She used to tell my son that I beat her up, and he would take her side, but when I asked him had he ever seen me beat her up, he would say he never had. She would also tell neighbours that I had assaulted her. When she used to threaten social work, I used to give her the telephone number to ring - I worked in healthcare so had the relevant numbers.
However, there is more of a back story to this. My son is not blameless either. I was very close to my son until he was about 14. At this time, he started to mix in with a bad crowd, and nothing I said or did could dissuade him from this, and he resented how much I tried to keep tabs on him. My son eventually started stealing from me, discovered the pin numbers for my online bank account, sold items from the house - cameras etc. He would have friends in when I was not there and they would eat all the food in the house, so it would be all gone within a day or two - this was before they went to university. They both had parties in the house when I was on night duty - I had to work four nights per month, and once when I went away for a night with my best friend. They damaged the work surfaces in the kitchen by dancing on them, damaged sofas by them and their friends vomiting on them. I had a converted attic in the house which was used as a den, and they put cigarette burns in the furniture and threw burning shorts and jeans out of the attic windows.
Things came to a head in those years before university, when my son age 16 decided to hide drugs in the house for one of his undesirable friends in exchange for 50 euros - the house was subsequently raided on a tip off by our police, the Gardai.. My son subsequently had to go into hiding as there was a threat on his life from the loss of money because the drugs were seized. This meant he had to change school as the drug gang knew which school he attended. No state school would take him because of the risk, but I got him into a private school, which cost 8000 per year. I had to work 55 hours per week though to pay for this school for two years, and eventually suffered with burnout. My son and daughter also had to move out of what was our family home to where they live now, which was my first house, which I had bought at a very young age and managed to keep. The gang tried to intimidate me in my home, and I was living in fear of being petrol bombed for the drug debt. A member of the gang came to my house one night. I knew who was ringing at my door, and I rang the police and they were arrested.
These were not children who were neglected. They did lots of after school activities, which they wanted to do. My daughter's hobby was sailing, and I paid for all this, including her sailing exams. They both also loved music, and had piano, singing, drum and saxaphone lessons. We travelled each summer abroad. They had lots of support with school, and I paid for extra tuition as they needed it.
I guess here, I would just like some opinions. Because of all that has happened, I feel a lot of resentment towards my children, and don't feel any real connection to them anymore. My daughter in particular, has always treated me with some contempt. If I text her, she will not respond for days, or until she needs something from me. If I try and arrange to do something nice with her, she will fob me off constantly. If I talk about how their behaviour has upset me or how I find it disrespectful, they become angry and annoyed and just walk away. If I say that something they have done or said has hurt me, and I feel the need to talk about it, they again become angry and blaming and everything is my fault. It's a big effort for them to do anything for Mother's Day or my birthday - if I don't remind them beforehand they won't do anything, yet I always go out of my way to celebrate their birthdays and buy them something nice, and also to make Christmas special. They will meet up with me when I am home sometimes, but they seem only interested if I am taking them out to an expensive restaurant or with the promise of cocktails and a serious amount of alcohol, and so it's gets expensive for me to try and maintain a relationship with them. Tea/coffee and cake in the local cafe or breakfast/lunch in a local bar is not enticing for them.
I am no longer sure, I can maintain a relationship with both of them. I still feel so resentful and sad about all that has happened and the way they have treated me, and that's impacting on my life, friendships and my relationship with my partner. I am working full-time abroad in the UK, but feel no longer able to do this - just wrecked by everything, and want to work part-time, but I can't sell the house where they are living because they are still in university, but yet I cannot stand to go there, and all the pressure to maintain it when they treat it so badly. After the last night when my daughter refused to empty the overflowing bin, I said I didn't want a relationship with her anymore, that I was so tired of trying to support them when they treated me and the house so badly.
Apologies for such a long post, and thanks to whoever manages to read through it, I just need some direction and advice on all this.
As a person who fortunately has good family relationships, I read the response from Mumless as actually rather intelligent and thoughtful. Rather looks like some of those forced to estrange a parent have done a lot of work to understand the situation they have found themselves in and are clearly of great benefit in discussion or imparting advice.
I don't doubt that some forced to estrange a parent have worked hard to understand the situation they found themselves in, but projecting one's own experience of their relationship with their mother onto other EP's I don't consider to be beneficial.
I think, whatever side of estrangement you're on and I've been on both - it's important not to project personal circumstances onto others, who will have a different set of circumstance's🙂.
@Luminance have never heard highly critical and judgemental comments made about an OP described as beneficial.
Perhaps you also have difficulty seeing things from a different view point, or are prone to project.
Is then the reverse also true and any estrangee commenting is therefore projecting their own situation onto each individual who visits? Or possibly is it the case, as stated, that individual people read situations and may relate to aspects of it which they then comment on? I feel that likely to be the case in some instances and that in some instances people are unable to see past their own situation when commenting. Who is doing what is not for me to judge so I would not but I would question why those who do judge, were so quick to believe that to be happening.
No, the reverse is not true. Posting about one's own experience and sharing that with someone whose experience is similar is one thing, but that's not what IMO Mumless' post was doing.
She was being critical and judgemental of the OP not based purely on what the OP posted, but on her experience with her own mother; that is projecting.
I took Mumless’s “(M40)” to mean (male,40)?
Oh dear, we cannot have read the comment through an impartial lense and failed to ascertain the stated gender. Judgement is easier than empathy it seems
@Luminance but you did judge that mumless’s comments which were highly judgemental were beneficial so you have judged in favour of this attitude.
To give myself justice, I did take the time to read the situation carefully first.
Why can't Granset remove these old threads, I suppose it has already been sorted out after all these months.
I am now having to check the dates on each thread before replying. A waste of time.
Which Mumless says he has not done - he only read the OP and a few responses.
Sorry, my reply was to Luminance.
Well I read the post carefully enough to notice that although Mumless claimed to be in Australia, he slipped up by saying he wasn't going to continue with his post because it was getting late.
Taking into account the time difference, it would have been between 6.30 am and 8.30 am at the time the post was made. I suspect the claim he's in Australia was to throw us off the scent that s/he may not be genuine 
.
I think you could be right Smileless.
And all that posts like this do is make it so much harder for ACs genuinely seeking help after an estrangement to come on here.
Too many crying Wolf.
Also Babs, Mumless hasn't been back .
I find it very difficult to believe any of the story.
If it is true why would anyone in their right mind put up with this sort of behaviour.
Oh I have no problem believing Elaine the OP.
jeanie99
I find it very difficult to believe any of the story.
If it is true why would anyone in their right mind put up with this sort of behaviour.
If I told you our story which I won’t right now, you probs wouldn’t believe that either.
You really would be shocked how much some parents will take from their ACs.
Btw was referring to Elaine.
These old threads are a waste of time...
I disagree keepingquiet especially when as Elaine's been doing, the OP intermittently comes back with updates.
The last update was September?
Yes, I know.
It's a long time since I wrote here, and things have moved on with my children, again a couple of weeks ago, not in a positive way.
My daughter left the family home to go travelling. She ran out of money and had a row with the people she was staying with and wanted to come home, but no money to return, the flight was 1300 euros, 1100 stg, which I paid for her to come home. While she was away she was less snappy and difficult. She cam home to no job. She said she was applying for many jobs, but didn't get any. I found this hard to believe as Ireland is full employment currently. She wasn't living in the house I owned as I had rented out her room - she wasn't coming back for a year, and she made it very difficult for the Ukranian girl who is living there, to live there as my daughter is so untidy and dirty.
My daughtered moved in to an apartment that I had purchased from downsizing our family home and selling an old cottage that my uncle had left me. She tarted dating an old friend, who became her boyfriend who was supposed to have a government job here, but never went to work. They spent most of the day in bed, watching TV, eating takeaway. Soon her room and ensuite was full of rubbish, half eaten food, plates and cutlery were disappearing to her room and never returning, some insects decided to take up residence in the half eaten food, empty coke cans. The ensuite bathroom was filthy. She refused to help with any cleaning but did resentfully attempt some when I said she could not stay if she was going to treat the apartment like she had treated the house she lived in for college with her brother. When I started reminding her of the boundaries re cleaning and not having her boyfriend to stay when I was there, she became really sullen and snappy. It was like when I lived with her up to late teens early 20s and she would not acknowledge me or speak to me.
She eventually admitted she did not want a job, but was going to study for her law exams while remaining on State benefits. I said I didn't think this was good that she should work part-time and study part-time as she would get skills and up to date reference and could, as some of her friends had done, claim State benefits for the days she was working. Then one morning at 7.00 a.m. she started shouting at me that I wanted her to do the law exams and she did not want to do them. I had never said she should do them, she made that decision herself, after I said that I was not in a position to give her 15k at the moment for a masters degree. I am going for 4 x orthopaedic surgeries, finding it difficult to walk even to the bustop and there is a chance that after being off for two years for all these surgeries that I might not work again due to issues with arthritis. Then she said that I told her to take a particular job, which I had never done. Then she said I never cared about her feelings. I have spent years listening to her feelings, trying to help her to sort out what she wants to do. I am so tired now. I am facing multiple surgeries for arthritis. I am worried about them as I have issues with anaesthetics. I am also worried about how I will financially manage with being off work and only on State sickness benefit for almost two years.
After more shouting at me at 07.00 a.m. I became annoyed and just said I often felt a 'murderous' rage towards her because of all her demands over so many years without any acknowledgement of my limits. I had said this calmly about 12 feet away from her on my way out of the apartment. I was in no way aggressive towards her. I said if she continued to behave this way she could leave the apartment I could not take it any more.
My daughter then telephone her brother, and told him I said I was going to murder her. He telephoned me at 07.30 stating that my daughter had been crying and hyperventilating on the phone. She had not been hyperventilating when I left though she was a little tearful. My daughter has done this to her brother and I before. Once ringing her brother crying telling him that she had lost her job and he needed to collect her. When he got there, she laughed and said she just needed a lift home. My daughter has often told lies about me to her brother and other people, including that I hit her, mentioning people who she said saw this. When I asked these people, they said that my daughter was lying that they had never seen me hit her. Though my son says he has never seen me hit my daughter he still believes her.
After my son ringing I just snapped as it brought back all the times she told lies to neighbours, friends etc about me hitting her when I didn't, how I could have lost my job, the amount of times I cried about it and felt ashamed to see people because of her lies.
My daughter lies a lot, most recently saying I refused to get her private health insurance (very common in Ireland) and told her to go to London where she would have free NHS, I never said this, and got her the private health insurance. A frequent lie is that I never offered to pay for driving lessons so that is why she doesn't drive. I have offered to pay for driving lessons as I did for my son so many times, and my son has heard me say this to her.
Anyway, after my daughter rang my son, I saw a missed call from him, and he rang me, and berated me for threating to murder my daughter. I stated that I had said to her that I felt a murderous rage towards her because of how she treated me, that I had said this calmly walking out the door of the apartment and that my daughter was as usual, trying to triangulate him and get him on her side. I had said that his sister was narcisstic. He then started berating me that I was a professional and I could not behave like this, and stated that I was thinking was 'always warped' that he wasn't trying to take sides. I didn't remind him of this on this occasion as I don't think it would have been fair, but I had almost a flashback to the time we were on holiday sin Slovenia and I cried for two days with him and his sister shouting at me that I had beaten his sister and he believing it, but still saying afterwards he never saw me hurt her physically.
I am sorry this is such a loan post. My daughter returned to the apartment that evening with her boyfriend, no sign of any distress, stating I couldn't change the locks or evict her as she had rights. I said that I had a locksmith coming to change the lock on the front doo. She didn't believe me. The locksmith came changed the lock. I texted my daughter that she could collect her stuff any time - she did the next day. She is staying with her boyfriend and his dad.
I texted them both to say I was not going to contact them for some time as I needed a break for my own mental health. My son saying my thinking was always warped was a last straw.
Any advice on how to manage this temporary/permanent estrangemnetn would be helpful.
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